asterisk users - Aug 2007 - Saftware RAID1 or Hardware RAID1 with Asterisk

Dear All,

I would like to get community's feedback with regard to RAID1 ( Software or
Hardware) implementations with asterisk.

This is my setup

Motherboard with SATA RAID1 support
CENT OS 4.4
Asterisk 1.2.19
Libpri/zaptel latest release
2.8 Ghz Intel processor
2 80 GB SATA Hard disks
256 MB RAM
digium PRI/E1 card

Following are the concerns I am having

I'm planing to put this asterisk server in production enviorment which is
having E1 connection to the asterisk server, approximately
20 con-current calls, Music on hold, voice mail boxes.

1. If I use Software RAID, what would be the impact to my deployment?
( problems that I have to face with regard to the call flow )
2. If I use Hardware based RAID 1, what would be the impact to the system?
3. According to your practical experiance what is the ideal solution among
both options?

I will be highly appreciate your feedback on this regard.


-- 
Thanks & Regards,
Vidura Senadeera,
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While hardware RAID tend to be more reliable, it is not always
possible to properly monitor hardware raid in a linux system, unless
you write your own code.
Consider this:
~# cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid1]
md0 : active raid1 sdb2[2](F) sda2[1]
      76139968 blocks [2/1] [_U]

unused devices: <none>

The above is from an active system that one hdd failed. It would take
way longer to find such a thing on a hardware raid. Unless it came
with a program that emails me notification on such a failure.

On 8/20/07, Vidura Senadeera <vidurased at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I would like to get community's feedback with regard to RAID1 (
Software or
> Hardware) implementations with asterisk.
>
> This is my setup
>
> Motherboard with SATA RAID1 support
> CENT OS 4.4
> Asterisk 1.2.19
> Libpri/zaptel latest release
> 2.8 Ghz Intel processor
> 2 80 GB SATA Hard disks
> 256 MB RAM
> digium PRI/E1 card
>
> Following are the concerns I am having
>
> I'm planing to put this asterisk server in production enviorment which
is
> having E1 connection to the asterisk server, approximately
> 20 con-current calls, Music on hold, voice mail boxes.
>
> 1. If I use Software RAID, what would be the impact to my deployment? (
> problems that I have to face with regard to the call flow )
> 2. If I use Hardware based RAID 1, what would be the impact to the system?
> 3. According to your practical experiance what is the ideal solution among
> both options?
>
> I will be highly appreciate your feedback on this regard.
>
>
> --
> Thanks & Regards,
> Vidura Senadeera,
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007, Vidura Senadeera wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I would like to get community's feedback with regard to RAID1 (
Software or
> Hardware) implementations with asterisk.
>
> This is my setup
>
> Motherboard with SATA RAID1 support
> CENT OS 4.4
> Asterisk 1.2.19
> Libpri/zaptel latest release
> 2.8 Ghz Intel processor
> 2 80 GB SATA Hard disks
> 256 MB RAM
> digium PRI/E1 card
>
> Following are the concerns I am having
>
> I'm planing to put this asterisk server in production enviorment which
is
> having E1 connection to the asterisk server, approximately
> 20 con-current calls, Music on hold, voice mail boxes.
>
> 1. If I use Software RAID, what would be the impact to my deployment?
> ( problems that I have to face with regard to the call flow )
> 2. If I use Hardware based RAID 1, what would be the impact to the system?
> 3. According to your practical experiance what is the ideal solution among
> both options?
With my other hat on I build and maintain many servers with disk 
capacities ranging from 80GB to over 6TB... All using Linux software RAID. 
I've been using Linux s/w RAID for over 8 years now.

So with RAID-1 done in hardware, the impact to the system, CPU, etc. 
should be no more (or less) than running a single SCSI or SATA drive. You 
write the data over the (PCI) bus once and the hardware takes care of 
writing it to both drives behind your back. Similarly for reading (where 
it might only read from one drive or from alternative drives) you only see 
one transaction over the PCI bus.

You do (sometimes) need the hardware RAID controller to be supported by 
Linux and this is a weak area. Some controllers just look like a standard 
drive, so they are transparent to the system, but then you need to use 
either the BIOS utilities to set it up in the first place, or (typically) 
a Windows utility, although some controllers are now being supported by 
Linux with user-land tools to manage and check the arrays.

Doing it in software requires double the PCI bandwidth for writes, but the 
same as a single drive or hardware controller for reads. AIUI, the current 
software RAID-1 reads alternatively from the disks. So on writes. The 
overhead in terms of CPU power is minimal - write the same block twice, 
and if the hardware is good, then both writes can be transfered over the 
PCI bus rapidly, into the cache on the drives and the writes then take 
place in parallel, so performance wise, it's really no worse than single 
drive (and it's important to note than it's no better than a single
drive
on reads too, despite many threads on the linux-raid list suggesting 
otherwise!)

RAID-1 doesn't require parity calculations, so the software overhead 
really is quite small (especially when you compare it to the relatively 
huge times it takes to actually get the data to/from the disks)

So things that are important: Make sure the hardware to each drive is as 
independent as possible. Hard to do these days as there is probably only 
one SATA controller chip on the motherboard. You also need to see what 
happens when a drive dies - is it going to crowbar the entire SATA chip 
and block the other drive? Is the driver going to recognise it quickly 
enough and so on. (Some early SATA drives weren't good at this)

And the "usual" - make sure all the hardware has it's own
interrupts.

For the absolute maximun performance, (and minimum overheard) then you 
need a motherboard with multiple PCI buses - put the disks on one bus, the 
PRI card on another.

If terms of disk b/w needed - if we're using g711, then it's 64KB/sec,
and
20 calls streaming to voicemail is 1.3MB/sec. A single modern drive ought 
to be able to sustain 60MB/sec read or writes, so there is plenty of 
overhead, as long as asterisk is relatively sensible about buffering disk 
write/reads (which I think it is)

So I'd say "go for it", but do take the time, if possible to build
a
custom kernel for your hardware, and at the BIOS level, turn off all 
drivers that you won't be using - eg. on-board sound, then 2nd network 
port, USB (if you're not using it, don't enable it!) and so on, and make
sure you have a custom compiled kernel for your exact hardware 
requirements with no modules loaded other than the Zap/TDM, etc., ones.

And I'd also say "go for it" because I have similarly specd.
servers doing
similar tasks also running asterisk. I won't put a server in a remote data 
centre these days without it either booting off flash, or using at least 
RAID-1.

Remember to put your swap on RAID-1 too.

Here is one of my servers in a similar setup to yours:

$ cat /proc/mdstat
Personalities : [raid0] [raid1]
md1 : active raid1 hdc1[1] hda1[0]
       248896 blocks [2/2] [UU]

md2 : active raid1 hdc2[1] hda2[0]
       995904 blocks [2/2] [UU]

md3 : active raid1 hdc3[1] hda3[0]
       2000000 blocks [2/2] [UU]

md5 : active raid1 hdc5[1] hda5[0]
       38081984 blocks [2/2] [UU]

md6 : active raid1 hdc6[1] hda6[0]
       38708480 blocks [2/2] [UU]

unused devices: <none>

$ df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/md1              236M   38M  186M  17% /
tmpfs                 249M     0  249M   0% /dev/shm
/dev/md3              1.9G  1.2G  643M  65% /usr
/dev/md5               36G   29G  5.3G  85% /var
/dev/md6               37G   30G  4.7G  87% /archive

$ cat /proc/swaps
Filename                                Type            Size    Used 
Priority
/dev/md2                                partition       995896  326712  -1

It has 2 x 80GB IDE drives and I've partitioned them (because that's my 
preference), but one thing I do, is name the md (RAID) partitons after the 
partition names, so md1 is /dev/hda1 and /dev/hdb1 and so on. Makes life 
easy if changing a drive.


Gordon
Ps. There appears to be asterisk version 1.2.24 now, although I must have 
missed the announcements from Digium about it...

Pps. Stick another 256MB of RAM in it if possible. It'll only cost pennies 
and might help with buffering stuff like MoH - or even copy MoH, prompts, 
etc. into a RAM disk at boot time...

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:33:23 +0530
"Vidura Senadeera" <vidurased at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
> 
> I would like to get community's feedback with regard to RAID1
> ( Software or Hardware) implementations with asterisk.
> 
> This is my setup
> 
> Motherboard with SATA RAID1 support
> CENT OS 4.4
> Asterisk 1.2.19
> Libpri/zaptel latest release
> 2.8 Ghz Intel processor
> 2 80 GB SATA Hard disks
> 256 MB RAM
> digium PRI/E1 card
> 
> Following are the concerns I am having
> 
> I'm planing to put this asterisk server in production enviorment
> which is having E1 connection to the asterisk server, approximately
> 20 con-current calls, Music on hold, voice mail boxes.
> 
> 1. If I use Software RAID, what would be the impact to my
> deployment? ( problems that I have to face with regard to the call
> flow ) 2. If I use Hardware based RAID 1, what would be the impact
> to the system? 3. According to your practical experiance what is
> the ideal solution among both options?
> 
> I will be highly appreciate your feedback on this regard.
1: Software RAID on Linux is way less than impressive. Plus last a I
checked Linux can't handle mirroring a entire disk. Last I looked at
it around a year ago you were limited to only mirroring partitions,
which is a joke from a administrative standpoint.
2: No real impact other than a bad disk won't mean a reinstall.
3: On Linux, go hardware. On FreeBSD it is personal choice.

For RAID1, I am not sure.

But for RAID 5, You should always use hardware RAID.

If you use software RAID and your CPU spikes for too long, you can corrupt your
disks. I have seen this several times.


-- 
-- 
Steven

http://www.glimasoutheast.org



  "Vidura Senadeera" <vidurased at gmail.com> wrote in message
news:afa14ef00708201903v209f8034lca006c8093251a2a at mail.gmail.com...

  Dear All,

  I would like to get community's feedback with regard to RAID1 ( Software
or Hardware) implementations with asterisk.

  This is my setup

  Motherboard with SATA RAID1 support
  CENT OS 4.4
  Asterisk 1.2.19
  Libpri/zaptel latest release
  2.8 Ghz Intel processor
  2 80 GB SATA Hard disks
  256 MB RAM
  digium PRI/E1 card

  Following are the concerns I am having

  I'm planing to put this asterisk server in production enviorment which is
having E1 connection to the asterisk server, approximately
  20 con-current calls, Music on hold, voice mail boxes.

  1. If I use Software RAID, what would be the impact to my deployment? (
problems that I have to face with regard to the call flow )
  2. If I use Hardware based RAID 1, what would be the impact to the system?
  3. According to your practical experiance what is the ideal solution among
both options?

  I will be highly appreciate your feedback on this regard.


  -- 
  Thanks & Regards,
  Vidura Senadeera,
   


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Gordon Henderson wrote:
> You do (sometimes) need the hardware RAID controller to be supported by 
> Linux and this is a weak area. Some controllers just look like a standard 
> drive, so they are transparent to the system, but then you need to use 
> either the BIOS utilities to set it up in the first place, or (typically) 
> a Windows utility, although some controllers are now being supported by 
> Linux with user-land tools to manage and check the arrays.
Most proper (ie, not fakeraid) RAID controllers support Linux now. They
are practically unsellable if they do not.

-Stephen-

On 8/20/07, Vidura Senadeera <vidurased at gmail.com> wrote:
> Motherboard with SATA RAID1 support
That's a mulit-port SATA controller with RAID in the driver (software).
> 256 MB RAM
Use a little more RAM.

> digium PRI/E1 card
Is there any reason you aren't using Sangoma cards?
> 1. If I use Software RAID, what would be the impact to my deployment? (
> problems that I have to face with regard to the call flow )
None.
> 2. If I use Hardware based RAID 1, what would be the impact to the system?
A PCI slot.
> 3. According to your practical experiance what is the ideal solution among
> both options?
Software RAID works fine.