After our department went to using *, I've had several inquiries about doing VoIP for my entire organization (Small county). We have ~10 locations with various links in between (Mostly p2p T1s, some Frame (1.544mbps commit), some ISDN, some VPN over 768kbit internet) Right now we're using several NEC Electra Elite systems, and 2 Nortel Meridian systems. In one of the main locations we have 29 POTS lines going into the NEC system. At another location we have a single PRI, and at a lot of the other locations we have just analog phones. Cisco has approached us about using all Cisco equipment, but their idea is going to be costly. Is it wise to use Asterisk on something this big? I am not a PBX/Voice guy, I just do IP up here right now. Any tips, pointers, design guides, or advice to give? Tim Jackson Network Engineer Angelina County, Texas (936)639-4827 office (936)414-6723 mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20040910/e811cbe5/attachment.htm
Cisco = Big $ email me direct and I will explain how you can save.
Brandon
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Jackson
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 4:03 PM
Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Organization wide
After our department went to using *, I've had several inquiries about
doing VoIP for my entire organization (Small county). We have ~10 locations with
various links in between (Mostly p2p T1s, some Frame (1.544mbps commit), some
ISDN, some VPN over 768kbit internet) Right now we're using several NEC
Electra Elite systems, and 2 Nortel Meridian systems. In one of the main
locations we have 29 POTS lines going into the NEC system. At another location
we have a single PRI, and at a lot of the other locations we have just analog
phones. Cisco has approached us about using all Cisco equipment, but their idea
is going to be costly. Is it wise to use Asterisk on something this big? I am
not a PBX/Voice guy, I just do IP up here right now. Any tips, pointers, design
guides, or advice to give?
Tim Jackson
Network Engineer
Angelina County, Texas
(936)639-4827 office
(936)414-6723 mobile
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How can we save? :-) -Tim -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Patterson (peering) [mailto:siptech@livevoip.com] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:13 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Organization wide Cisco = Big $ email me direct and I will explain how you can save. Brandon ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Jackson <mailto:tim@angelinacounty.net> To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Organization wide After our department went to using *, I've had several inquiries about doing VoIP for my entire organization (Small county). We have ~10 locations with various links in between (Mostly p2p T1s, some Frame (1.544mbps commit), some ISDN, some VPN over 768kbit internet) Right now we're using several NEC Electra Elite systems, and 2 Nortel Meridian systems. In one of the main locations we have 29 POTS lines going into the NEC system. At another location we have a single PRI, and at a lot of the other locations we have just analog phones. Cisco has approached us about using all Cisco equipment, but their idea is going to be costly. Is it wise to use Asterisk on something this big? I am not a PBX/Voice guy, I just do IP up here right now. Any tips, pointers, design guides, or advice to give? Tim Jackson Network Engineer Angelina County, Texas (936)639-4827 office (936)414-6723 mobile _____ _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20040910/7330c813/attachment.htm
Woops, wasn't supposed to go to the list ;) -Tim -----Original Message----- From: Tim Jackson Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:16 PM To: Brandon Patterson (peering); Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Organization wide How can we save? H -Tim -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Patterson (peering) [mailto:siptech@livevoip.com] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:13 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Organization wide Cisco = Big $ email me direct and I will explain how you can save. ? Brandon ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Jackson To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Organization wide After our department went to using *, I've had several inquiries about doing VoIP for my entire organization (Small county). We have ~10 locations with various links in between (Mostly p2p T1s, some Frame (1.544mbps commit), some ISDN, some VPN over 768kbit internet) Right now we're using several NEC Electra Elite systems, and 2 Nortel Meridian systems. In one of the main locations we have 29 POTS lines going into the NEC system. At another location we have a single PRI, and at a lot of the other locations we have just analog phones. Cisco has approached us about using all Cisco equipment, but their idea is going to be costly. Is it wise to use Asterisk on something this big? I am not a PBX/Voice guy, I just do IP up here right now. Any tips, pointers, design guides, or advice to give? Tim Jackson Network Engineer Angelina County, Texas (936)639-4827 office (936)414-6723 mobile _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: ?? http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
My current asterisk box is a Quad Xeon 450 (2mb cache) IBM Netfinity 7000. About how many SIP extensions (normal usage) would this machine handle? What about redundancy? How would I implement an auto-failover Asterisk box at a remote location, or could I? Thanks, Tim -----Original Message----- From: mjr@ranney.com [mailto:mjr@ranney.com] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:40 PM To: Tim Jackson Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Organization wide "Tim Jackson" <tim@angelinacounty.net> writes:> After our department went to using *, I've had several inquiries about > doing VoIP for my entire organization (Small county). We have ~10 > locations with various links in between (Mostly p2p T1s, some Frame > (1.544mbps commit), some ISDN, some VPN over 768kbit internet) Rightnow> we're using several NEC Electra Elite systems, and 2 Nortel Meridian > systems. In one of the main locations we have 29 POTS lines going into > the NEC system. At another location we have a single PRI, and at a lot > of the other locations we have just analog phones. Cisco hasapproached> us about using all Cisco equipment, but their idea is going to be > costly. Is it wise to use Asterisk on something this big? I am not a > PBX/Voice guy, I just do IP up here right now. Any tips, pointers, > design guides, or advice to give?Cisco hardware and software is amazingly expensive. You can save lots of money by using asterisk, digium hardware, and possibly Cisco phones. I recently helped our ~200 person, 10 location company migrate away from an entire Cisco solution to one using asterisk with Cisco handsets. Not only is it vastly cheaper, but it is a much easier system to manage and maintain. I highly recommend you look further into an asterisk system. The only thing that stands out that might not work so well is the 29 pots lines in a single location. Ideally you could install a PRI in this location, but if not you'll need some other less common hardware to handle all those lines. On the IP side, the calls don't actually use up that much bandwidth, probably 30kbits/sec/call if you use ILBC. The only thing you need to do is make sure that all the RTP packets are delivered with a higher priority. Either custom queuing or bandwidth reservation or both will make everyone's life better. -- Matt Ranney - mjr@ranney.com
----- Original Message -----> After our department went to using *, I've had several inquiries about > doing VoIP for my entire organization (Small county). We have ~10 > locations with various links in between (Mostly p2p T1s, some Frame > (1.544mbps commit), some ISDN, some VPN over 768kbit internet) Right now > we're using several NEC Electra Elite systems, and 2 Nortel Meridian > systems. In one of the main locations we have 29 POTS lines going into > the NEC system. At another location we have a single PRI, and at a lot > of the other locations we have just analog phones. Cisco has approached > us about using all Cisco equipment, but their idea is going to be > costly. Is it wise to use Asterisk on something this big? I am not a > PBX/Voice guy, I just do IP up here right now. Any tips, pointers, > design guides, or advice to give?as with any wholescale deployment there is going to be a cost and risks associated with doing this. you will be required to scrap all of the handsets you currently have in place and put some kind of ip telephone on everyone's desk. cisco phones would be a good option. they work very well with * and there are large quantities of them available on the 'grey' market (read ebay et al) so the cost is pretty good. Call Manager software isn't too expensive especially now that they have put a CM feature set into IOS and you can run it on a 2600 or above class router but * gives you flexibility and scalability that NO other system will give, so it is really unfair to compare it to CM or any other system for that matter. my advice on a project like this would be to just go in with your eyes open. Managing a pure VoIP network is different than the norm. you have to think about stuff like QoS etc. (you may need to upgrade some of those old hubs you have out in the maintenance facility right?). remember that most people look at the phone on their desk just like they look at the faucet in the bathroom and when they turn it to the left they expect hot water to flow and when they turn it to the right they expect cool water to flow and when it doesn't they scream bloody murder. if you are currently managing the * system your dept is using then you probably have at least the basic skills required to do this. just look at this deployment like the one you have already done with more phones sitting on it. your environment (govt.=no money/heavy requirements) is a fantastic use case for the rest of us. if you deploy this, make sure you post to the list your successes/pitfalls. it will give us all a stronger leg to stand on with our endevours. alternatively, go into the wiki and look for outside help, there are a lot of us out here trying to make a living doing this and we are all listed as consultants in there. Feel free to contact me off list for any more advice. or to tell me to piss off. Jason Kawakami www.optellabs.com
> -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Kawakami [mailto:jkkawakami@optellabs.com] > Sent: September 10, 2004 5:13 PM > To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com > Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Organization wide > > ----- Original Message ----- > > After our department went to using *, I've had several inquiries about > > doing VoIP for my entire organization (Small county). We have ~10 > > locations with various links in between (Mostly p2p T1s, some Frame > > (1.544mbps commit), some ISDN, some VPN over 768kbit internet) Right now > > we're using several NEC Electra Elite systems, and 2 Nortel Meridian > > systems. In one of the main locations we have 29 POTS lines going into > > the NEC system. At another location we have a single PRI, and at a lot > > of the other locations we have just analog phones. Cisco has approached > > us about using all Cisco equipment, but their idea is going to be > > costly. Is it wise to use Asterisk on something this big? I am not a > > PBX/Voice guy, I just do IP up here right now. Any tips, pointers, > > design guides, or advice to give? > > as with any wholescale deployment there is going to be a cost > and risks associated with doing this. you will be required to scrap all ofthe> handsets you currently have in place and put some kind of ip > telephone on everyone's desk.{clip} I would (politely) suggest simply ditching your existing hardware is not necessarily needed. VoIP is many things, but principally a transport. Ask yourself why you're considering it company wide: - Do you want to consolidate data and voice transport infrastructure? Would reduce captial costs... - Do you want to consolidate your dialplan across the sites? Would simplify use, add to customer service... - Do you want to have most inbound calls routed through a single location? Would facilitate IVR/Autoattendant deployment... With the Electras you are running somewhere between 8 to 120 stations. The Meridians? A few hundred station capable hardware. Look at your calling patterns - as a local Gov't your users are probably on the phone with each other, particularly within each site, as much or more so then they are with the outside world: - What would local users get out of your capital investment in a VoIP transport instead of existing regular two-wire digital sets for an existing facility? We've taken the alternative approach and deployed Asterisk as a compliment to, not a wholesale replacement for, Norstar MICS hardware. * handles intersite trunking, IVR, AA and Voicemail. The Norstars drive the stations and provide paging, background music at your desk, speed dialing and such. We have two sites, 96 stations up at the moment and should be bringing up a third MICS by the end of the month. Obviously there are issues that still have to be worked out with both the users and Asterisk itself but we now have phone infrastructure that is an analog of the features of regular computer infrastructure: - Want a new site, perhaps other one burned down? Got boxes on the shelf ready to go - either MICS digital or pure VoIP. - Need to move to a different site for a week? here, take your extension number with you. - Moving a business process to a different location permanently? Don't worry about your long standing PSTN numbers changing... - Got multiple service providers and want automatic least-cost provider selection? Give us the patterns and we'll on the feature. In addition you now have a core to your systems that can be expanded any way you can dream up: - Got radio/phone patches that you want to integrate? Plug it in. - Want to add voicemail based ticket submission to your job ticketing system? Plug it in. - Want to add festival-based spoken system status reporting for users? Write an AGI interface. - Want one single call parking facility across the entire company? Add it to the dialplan. So, in a nutshell: Go into VoIP for the transport improvements/cost reductions and Asterisk to gain specific process improvements. Do not just go into 'VoIP' as a label (CallManager, Norstar BCM etc.) - you will pay to reimplement a fair portion of the wheel if you're not starting from scratch. Make contact with to your distant end users and try to interpret and meet their facilities requests, you'll get much more bang for your buck. Kris Boutilier Information Systems Coordinator Sunshine Coast Regional District
----- Original Message -----> My current asterisk box is a Quad Xeon 450 (2mb cache) IBM Netfinity > 7000. About how many SIP extensions (normal usage) would this machine > handle?think about concurrent connections not how many extensions. there are no hard and fast rules but i would think that the box you have described could support +- 70 concurrent connections. up the RAM to the max the box can handle and you could squeeze out a few more maybe 10-15.> > What about redundancy? How would I implement an auto-failover Asterisk > box at a remote location, or could I?you should think about having an * server at each distinct location and using IAX trunks to tie everything together. i wouldnt think about doing this from one box. also, i am not sure about whether you can have a primary and secondary SIP proxy with any openly available phones out there.> snip> > The only thing that stands out that might not work so well is the 29 > pots lines in a single location. Ideally you could install a PRI in > this location, but if not you'll need some other less common hardware > to handle all those lines.i agree with matt here. probably have so many pots because the system in place didnt support t-1/pri. just a guess but a t-1/pri is most likely less expensive from a MRC perspective.> > On the IP side, the calls don't actually use up that much bandwidth, > probably 30kbits/sec/call if you use ILBC. The only thing you need to > do is make sure that all the RTP packets are delivered with a higher > priority. Either custom queuing or bandwidth reservation or both will > make everyone's life better.echo here Jason Kawakami
Well, 1GB is what it has now, I can up it to 4GB but I think that's over kill ;). The coolest part about this machine is 3 PCI busses. 2 64bit and 1 32bit. I'm assuming that this would make IP through the machine quite a bit more robust. Since these machines can be had for $500-600 refurbed it is what I was looking at using for the PBX machines. 3x power supplies in them, no RAID as of now, but it's a matter of putting in a card (hot-swap drives already) I'm assuming the best way for failover is to have identical dialplans on the machines (using IAX trunks?). What about synchronizing SIP extensions between machines? Use MySQL? Like you mentioned about primary and secondary sip proxies on phones, what's the best way to notify the phone that the proxy has changed? Use DNS with some sort of scripting? -Tim -----Original Message----- From: Jason Kawakami [mailto:jkkawakami@optellabs.com] Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:06 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: RE: Organization wide ----- Original Message -----> My current asterisk box is a Quad Xeon 450 (2mb cache) IBM Netfinity > 7000. About how many SIP extensions (normal usage) would this machine > handle?think about concurrent connections not how many extensions. there are no hard and fast rules but i would think that the box you have described could support +- 70 concurrent connections. up the RAM to the max the box can handle and you could squeeze out a few more maybe 10-15.> > What about redundancy? How would I implement an auto-failover Asterisk > box at a remote location, or could I?you should think about having an * server at each distinct location and using IAX trunks to tie everything together. i wouldnt think about doing this from one box. also, i am not sure about whether you can have a primary and secondary SIP proxy with any openly available phones out there.> snip> > The only thing that stands out that might not work so well is the 29 > pots lines in a single location. Ideally you could install a PRI in > this location, but if not you'll need some other less common hardware > to handle all those lines.i agree with matt here. probably have so many pots because the system in place didnt support t-1/pri. just a guess but a t-1/pri is most likely less expensive from a MRC perspective.> > On the IP side, the calls don't actually use up that much bandwidth, > probably 30kbits/sec/call if you use ILBC. The only thing you need to > do is make sure that all the RTP packets are delivered with a higher > priority. Either custom queuing or bandwidth reservation or both will > make everyone's life better.echo here Jason Kawakami _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users