Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and enterprise? Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his mouth is" http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong.html -- -------------- Jon Gretar Borgthorsson http://www.jongretar.net/
What a jerk. Who is his employer? I think we should start a fund to boycott them. If he works for a software company, the quality of their product must suffer from the contributions of someone as "enterprisey" as James McGovern. The title of the posting is conciliatory "ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong", but the post itself isn''t at all, in fact he borders on being a troll. Way to contradict yourself again James. "Anyway, for the record, the Ruby Community actually didn''t find a single fact to prove me wrong but at least it generated a lot of discussion. Hopefully, new insights will emerge and that they will consider alternative perspectives going forward..." -Steve http://www.stevelongdo.com On 4/28/06, Jon Gretar Borgthorsson <jon.borgthorsson@gmail.com> wrote:> > Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and enterprise? > > Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his mouth is" > > http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong.html > > -- > -------------- > Jon Gretar Borgthorsson > http://www.jongretar.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060428/a03d4edc/attachment.html
He''s a total troll. Google Ads. Blog traffic. Waste of time. It just doesn''t matter. -- Giles Bowkett http://www.gilesgoatboy.org On 4/28/06, Steve Longdo <steve.longdo@gmail.com> wrote:> What a jerk. Who is his employer? I think we should start a fund to > boycott them. If he works for a software company, the quality of their > product must suffer from the contributions of someone as "enterprisey" as > James McGovern. > > The title of the posting is conciliatory > "ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong", but the post itself > isn''t at all, in fact he borders on being a troll. Way to contradict > yourself again James. > > "Anyway, for the record, the Ruby Community actually didn''t find a single > fact to prove me wrong but at least it generated a lot of discussion. > Hopefully, new insights will emerge and that they will consider alternative > perspectives going forward..." > > -Steve > http://www.stevelongdo.com > > > On 4/28/06, Jon Gretar Borgthorsson <jon.borgthorsson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and enterprise? > > > > Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his mouth is" > > > http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong.html > > > > -- > > -------------- > > Jon Gretar Borgthorsson > > http://www.jongretar.net/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails mailing list > > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > >
Unfortunately, James represents the mindsets of many corporate decision makers out there. While he is trollish, he does have a point. A lot of decisions made by C-level folk require a Gartner and Forrester report before it ends up as part of the picture. Look how long it has taken for Linux to become accepted as an "enterprise" solution. Rails will eventually cross that hump, but it''ll be completely mainstream by then. In the meantime, smaller, more forward thinking companies can take advantage of the agile development that we enjoy from RoR.
As a former troll... I can spot a troll when I see one. ;-) -Robby On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Giles Bowkett wrote:> He''s a total troll. Google Ads. Blog traffic. Waste of time. > > It just doesn''t matter. > > -- > Giles Bowkett > http://www.gilesgoatboy.org > > > On 4/28/06, Steve Longdo <steve.longdo@gmail.com> wrote: >> What a jerk. Who is his employer? I think we should start a fund to >> boycott them. If he works for a software company, the quality of >> their >> product must suffer from the contributions of someone as >> "enterprisey" as >> James McGovern. >> >> The title of the posting is conciliatory >> "ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong", but the post itself >> isn''t at all, in fact he borders on being a troll. Way to contradict >> yourself again James. >> >> "Anyway, for the record, the Ruby Community actually didn''t find a >> single >> fact to prove me wrong but at least it generated a lot of discussion. >> Hopefully, new insights will emerge and that they will consider >> alternative >> perspectives going forward..." >> >> -Steve >> http://www.stevelongdo.com >> >> >> On 4/28/06, Jon Gretar Borgthorsson <jon.borgthorsson@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and >> enterprise? >> > >> > Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his >> mouth is" >> > >> http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved- >> mcgovern-wrong.html >> > >> > -- >> > -------------- >> > Jon Gretar Borgthorsson >> > http://www.jongretar.net/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rails mailing list >> > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org >> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rails mailing list >> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org >> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/railsRobby Russell Founder & Executive Director PLANET ARGON, LLC Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting & Hosting www.planetargon.com www.robbyonrails.com +1 503 445 2457 +1 877 55 ARGON [toll free] +1 815 642 4968 [fax]
Wow, that guy''s a full-of-crap deluded jackass. Joe -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
Maybe you can point him to the Troll 12-step program that turned you around :-) -Steve http://www.stevelongdo.com On 4/28/06, Robby Russell <robby.lists@planetargon.com> wrote:> > As a former troll... I can spot a troll when I see one. ;-) > > -Robby > > On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Giles Bowkett wrote: > > > He''s a total troll. Google Ads. Blog traffic. Waste of time. > > > > It just doesn''t matter. > > > > -- > > Giles Bowkett > > http://www.gilesgoatboy.org > > > > > > On 4/28/06, Steve Longdo <steve.longdo@gmail.com> wrote: > >> What a jerk. Who is his employer? I think we should start a fund to > >> boycott them. If he works for a software company, the quality of > >> their > >> product must suffer from the contributions of someone as > >> "enterprisey" as > >> James McGovern. > >> > >> The title of the posting is conciliatory > >> "ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong", but the post itself > >> isn''t at all, in fact he borders on being a troll. Way to contradict > >> yourself again James. > >> > >> "Anyway, for the record, the Ruby Community actually didn''t find a > >> single > >> fact to prove me wrong but at least it generated a lot of discussion. > >> Hopefully, new insights will emerge and that they will consider > >> alternative > >> perspectives going forward..." > >> > >> -Steve > >> http://www.stevelongdo.com > >> > >> > >> On 4/28/06, Jon Gretar Borgthorsson <jon.borgthorsson@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and > >> enterprise? > >> > > >> > Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his > >> mouth is" > >> > > >> http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved- > >> mcgovern-wrong.html > >> > > >> > -- > >> > -------------- > >> > Jon Gretar Borgthorsson > >> > http://www.jongretar.net/ > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Rails mailing list > >> > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > >> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rails mailing list > >> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > >> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails mailing list > > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > Robby Russell > Founder & Executive Director > > PLANET ARGON, LLC > Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting & Hosting > > www.planetargon.com > www.robbyonrails.com > > +1 503 445 2457 > +1 877 55 ARGON [toll free] > +1 815 642 4968 [fax] > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060429/5533642f/attachment.html
He''s fairly indicative of what you''ll find in the industry - recall that the software game is controlled primarily by the [so-called] big 5 consulting firms [Arthur Andersen/Deloitte & Touche/Ernst & Young/KPMG/PW Coopers] - and none of them is going to concede to ''more product for less money'' nor is any small firm ever going to have the resources to take them on.. It''s just business, profit margins, and stock holders at that point, i.e. I wouldn''t take any of it personally. Clearly they''re going to throw their collective might at anyone or anything that threats the business model.. just a different ball game than ROR, et al. I hope ROR doesn''t become mainstream actually - I''d hate to lose the advantage.. lord knows I can''t compete against the big 5. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful: http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
cdr wrote:> > in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful: > http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html >Is there supposed to be something about ActiveRecord on that page? b
cdr wrote:> > > in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful: > http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.htmlUseless site. Joe -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
cdr wrote:> > > in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful: > http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.htmlDid not find anything related to ActiveRecord there. Please give a more specific link. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
He''s just trying to make a name for himself. He attacks something popular to make as many people as possible upset about him, thus giving him a lot of publicity. Developers think he''s an idiot, but the pointy-haired bosses think "This guy''s got something. I don''t know exactly what, but I have to find a way to give him my money." J?n Borg??rsson wrote:> Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and enterprise? > > Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his mouth is" > http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern-wrong.html > > ---- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
On 29/04/06 20:25 +0200, Joe wrote:> cdr wrote: > > > > > > in case you thought ActiveRecord was actally useful: > > http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html > > Useless site. > > JoeI agree. Totally useless and non-navigatable. Jason
On 01/05/06 12:05 +0200, Trent Steele wrote:> He''s just trying to make a name for himself. He attacks something > popular to make as many people as possible upset about him, thus giving > him a lot of publicity. Developers think he''s an idiot, but the > pointy-haired bosses think "This guy''s got something. I don''t know > exactly what, but I have to find a way to give him my money."We all think McGovern''s a troll, and I agree, but the guy''s also a marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good publicity when trying to make a name for yourself. Find a group of people who are very emotionally attatched to a product or service, attack that service and it''s devotees, then find a way to notify the devotees that their cause (product) has been attacked. This is the perfect recipe for what I like to call "hot button marketing". Microsoft has been doing this for ages, although they are not as brash about it as Mr. McGovern. Jason
...again... he/she is a troll. :-) seems he''s been around the block... http://windows.ittoolbox.com/blogs/featuredentry.asp?i=6267&sp=CM On May 1, 2006, at 3:05 AM, Trent Steele wrote:> He''s just trying to make a name for himself. He attacks something > popular to make as many people as possible upset about him, thus > giving > him a lot of publicity. Developers think he''s an idiot, but the > pointy-haired bosses think "This guy''s got something. I don''t know > exactly what, but I have to find a way to give him my money." > > J?n Borg??rsson wrote: >> Remember James McGovern and his articles about Rails and enterprise? >> >> Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his >> mouth is" >> http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved- >> mcgovern-wrong.html >> >> -- > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/railsRobby Russell Founder & Executive Director PLANET ARGON, LLC Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting & Hosting www.planetargon.com www.robbyonrails.com +1 503 445 2457 +1 877 55 ARGON [toll free] +1 815 642 4968 [fax]
On 1 May 2006, at 15:19, Jason Stewart wrote:> We all think McGovern''s a troll, and I agree, but the guy''s also a > marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good > publicity when trying to make a name for yourself.That is a myth. A very dangerous one. Negative publicity gives you brand recognition, but the recognition is almost wholly negative. Instead of thinking of recognition as a single value, think of it as a vector with a magnitude and direction. With negative brand recognition, you have a huge magnitude but the vector is in the wrong direction and you are being dragged into no man''s land. You then need to ''switch'' the recognition you''ve built which costs much more money than just starting out by building good publicity in the first place. Personally, if I hear this guy''s name again I''m just going to think ''somebody who really likes the sound of his own voices who doesn''t actually know a lot about what he talks about''. For me to change that opinion I''m going to need to read dozens of articles I''m impressed by, and as I''ve now tuned him out I''m never going to do that. There is a long list of names of people who fit into this category I keep in my head - I''m tempted to start building a rails app to manage them better. The only way he gets benefit from this is if Rails and Ruby are suddenly shown to be full of holes and a group of people starts to amass that look for a leader to attack us. As that''s not going to happen, all he''s done is show off to the World that he is a bit of a jerk. Way to go!
On 28 Apr 2006, at 17:54, Jon Gretar Borgthorsson wrote:> Well... Check this one out where he "puts his money where his mouth > is" > http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/04/ruby-community-proved-mcgovern- > wrong.htmlCan somebody actually check with the charities concerned and make sure he did actually make the donations as he claims? I would, but being over here in the UK I''m not sure what you can/can''t ask US charities w/regards to donation information.
On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 04:20:00PM +0100, Paul Robinson wrote: } On 1 May 2006, at 15:19, Jason Stewart wrote: } } >We all think McGovern''s a troll, and I agree, but the guy''s also a } >marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good } >publicity when trying to make a name for yourself. } } That is a myth. A very dangerous one. } } Negative publicity gives you brand recognition, but the recognition } is almost wholly negative. Instead of thinking of recognition as a } single value, think of it as a vector with a magnitude and direction. } } With negative brand recognition, you have a huge magnitude but the } vector is in the wrong direction and you are being dragged into no } man''s land. You then need to ''switch'' the recognition you''ve built } which costs much more money than just starting out by building good } publicity in the first place. [...] Well, you''re partway there. If you get a lot of publicity for attacking something, however incompetently, you do get a large magnitude vector pointing away from that thing. The assumption that doesn''t hold is that this is a vector in a one-dimensional space, and that (the marjority of) people lie in roughly the same place. Actually, it''s a pretty high-dimensional space, and people wind up all over the place in their own opinions. Consider this in the context of politics. Many U.S. Republicans take a stand attacking abortion, with greater or lesser levels of competence. When one of them says something particularly outlandish, it gets significant negative publicity. Of course, to the Christian Right hardliners, that negative publicity is positive since it aligns with their position. So Congressman Yadda-Yadda gets pilloried in the press and meanwhile takes in $1.2 million in campaign donations from Christian fundamentalists in 72 hours. McGovern isn''t interested in securing Ruby or RoR work, he is interested in "enterprise" work. It''s what he does. So if he can make a name for himself by attacking something that the typical "enterprise" has a low opinion of, his publicity is positive to the people he is trying to impress. He wins. It may seem underhanded (in general, I''d say attacking much of anything is underhanded, with the exception of constructive criticism), but it''s effective. Refer to the political argument above. --Greg
On 01/05/06, Jason Stewart <jstewart@rtl.org> wrote:> We all think McGovern''s a troll, and I agree, but the guy''s also a > marketing genius. Negative publicity is just as effective as good > publicity when trying to make a name for yourself.Tell that to Michael Jackson. -- Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns http://number9.hellooperator.net/