If anyone has specific SSD drives they would recommend for ZIL use would you mind a quick response to the list? My understanding is I need to look for: 1) Respect cache flush commands (which is my real question...the answer to this isn''t very obvious in most cases) 2) Fast on small writes It seems even the smallest sizes should be sufficient. This is for a home NAS where most write work is for iSCSI volumes hosting backups for OS X Time Machine. There is also some small amount of MySQL (InnoDB) shared via NFS. From what I can gather workable options would be: - Stec which are in the 7000 series and extremely expensive - Mtron Pro 7500 16GB SLC which seem to respect the cache flush but aren''t particularly fast doing it http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=459872&tstart=0 - Intel X-25E with the cache turned off which seems to be like the Mtron - Seagate''s marketing page for their new SSD implies it has a capacitor to protect data in cache like I believe the Stec does. But I don''t think they are available at retail yet. "Power loss data protection to ensure against data loss upon power failure" http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/servers/pulsar/pulsar/ And what won''t work are: - Intel X-25M - Most/all of the consumer drives prices beneath the X-25M all because they use capacitors to get write speed w/o respecting cache flush requests. Is there anything that is safe to use as a ZIL, faster than the Mtron but more appropriate for home than a Stec? Maybe the answer is to wait on Seagate, but I thought maybe someone has other ideas. Thanks, Ware
On Feb 28, 2010, at 11:51 PM, rwalists at washdcmail.com wrote:> And what won''t work are: > > - Intel X-25M > - Most/all of the consumer drives prices beneath the X-25M > > all because they use capacitors to get write speed w/o respecting cache flush requests.Sorry, meant to say "they use cache to get write speed w/o respecting cache flush requests." --Ware
> Is there anything that is safe to use as a ZIL, faster than the > Mtron but more appropriate for home than a Stec?ACARD ANS-9010, as mentioned several times here recently (also sold as hyperdrive5) -- Dan. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20100301/b72915f5/attachment.bin>
On Mar 1, 2010, at 12:05 AM, Daniel Carosone wrote:>> Is there anything that is safe to use as a ZIL, faster than the >> Mtron but more appropriate for home than a Stec? > > ACARD ANS-9010, as mentioned several times here recently (also sold as > hyperdrive5)You are right. I saw that in a recent thread. In my case I don''t have a spare bay for it. I''m similarly constrained on some of the PCI solutions that have either battery backup or external power. But this seems like a good solution if someone has the space. Thanks, Ware
rwalists at washdcmail.com wrote:> On Feb 28, 2010, at 11:51 PM, rwalists at washdcmail.com wrote: > > >> And what won''t work are: >> >> - Intel X-25M >> - Most/all of the consumer drives prices beneath the X-25M >> >> all because they use capacitors to get write speed w/o respecting cache flush requests. >> > > Sorry, meant to say "they use cache to get write speed w/o respecting cache flush requests." > > --Ware >Actually, the bigger strike against the X-25M and similar MLC-based SSDs is their relatively poor small random writes performance. I''m pretty sure that all SandForce-based SSDs don''t use DRAM as their cache, but take a hunk of flash to use as scratch space instead. Which means that they''ll be OK for ZIL use. OCZ''s Vertex 2 EX and Vertex 2 both use the controller, but they''ll not be available for another month or so, in all likelihood. http://www.techspot.com/review/242-ocz-vertex2-pro-ssd/ Also, it looks like the Vertex Limited Edition is SandForce-based, too. http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1222/2/ Though, according to the article, without the capacitor, you still might loose some data stored in the SandForce controller''s internal buffer. -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Daniel Carosone <dan at geek.com.au> wrote:> > Is there anything that is safe to use as a ZIL, faster than the > > Mtron but more appropriate for home than a Stec? > > ACARD ANS-9010, as mentioned several times here recently (also sold as > hyperdrive5) > > +1 for this device. Although I don''t own one, but it looks promising forthis purpose based on the discussion in archive of this list.> -- > Dan. > > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20100301/c1a6be8f/attachment.html>
Zhu Han wrote:> > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Daniel Carosone <dan at geek.com.au > <mailto:dan at geek.com.au>> wrote: > > > Is there anything that is safe to use as a ZIL, faster than the > > Mtron but more appropriate for home than a Stec? > > ACARD ANS-9010, as mentioned several times here recently (also sold as > hyperdrive5) > > +1 for this device. Although I don''t own one, but it looks promising > for this purpose based on the discussion in archive of this list. > > > -- > Dan. >I''ve played with one, and they''re pretty much what you would expect for a DRAM-based Solid State device. Blazingly fast. :-) Two caveauts: if you get the single-SATA version (9010B = 1 sata port, 9010 = 2 sata ports), it pretty quickly floods the SATA link, which becomes the bottleneck; even the 2-port version can overwhelm both ports under heavy use. This is one device that really is going to benefit from the new SATA 6Gbit standard (that is, when it gets here). Second caveaut: every time the device detects power loss, it backs up the DRAM to the CF card. If you don''t get the external power adapter, every time you power cycle the system, power is lost to the 9010 (it gets power from an internal HD connector). Not just when the system is unplugged, but any time the power supply cycles power. Backing up 32GB to a CF card that can''t do more than 100MB/s is Slooooooow (6-10 minutes). I don''t remember what happens if power is restored in the middle of the backup. In any case, I''d recommend getting the external power adapter if you plan on using this with any system which may be reset with any frequency (more than once a week, IMHO). All that said, you get a super 32GB SSD for about $1000 fully tricked out. Now, if they could only make something like this in a 3.5" low-profile hard drive form-factor. Maybe using SODIMMs... -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA
Erik, That''s very useful. Thank you! best regards, hanzhu On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Erik Trimble <Erik.Trimble at sun.com> wrote:> Zhu Han wrote: > > >> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Daniel Carosone <dan at geek.com.au <mailto: >> dan at geek.com.au>> wrote: >> >> > Is there anything that is safe to use as a ZIL, faster than the >> > Mtron but more appropriate for home than a Stec? >> >> ACARD ANS-9010, as mentioned several times here recently (also sold as >> hyperdrive5) >> >> +1 for this device. Although I don''t own one, but it looks promising for >> this purpose based on the discussion in archive of this list. >> >> -- >> Dan. >> >> I''ve played with one, and they''re pretty much what you would expect for a > DRAM-based Solid State device. Blazingly fast. :-) > > Two caveauts: if you get the single-SATA version (9010B = 1 sata port, > 9010 = 2 sata ports), it pretty quickly floods the SATA link, which becomes > the bottleneck; even the 2-port version can overwhelm both ports under heavy > use. This is one device that really is going to benefit from the new SATA > 6Gbit standard (that is, when it gets here). > > Second caveaut: every time the device detects power loss, it backs up the > DRAM to the CF card. If you don''t get the external power adapter, every > time you power cycle the system, power is lost to the 9010 (it gets power > from an internal HD connector). Not just when the system is unplugged, but > any time the power supply cycles power. Backing up 32GB to a CF card that > can''t do more than 100MB/s is Slooooooow (6-10 minutes). I don''t remember > what happens if power is restored in the middle of the backup. > > In any case, I''d recommend getting the external power adapter if you plan > on using this with any system which may be reset with any frequency (more > than once a week, IMHO). > > All that said, you get a super 32GB SSD for about $1000 fully tricked out. > > Now, if they could only make something like this in a 3.5" low-profile hard > drive form-factor. Maybe using SODIMMs... > > > -- > Erik Trimble > Java System Support > Mailstop: usca22-123 > Phone: x17195 > Santa Clara, CA > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20100301/87a7aa76/attachment.html>
On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 12:18:45AM -0500, rwalists at washdcmail.com wrote:> > ACARD ANS-9010, as mentioned several times here recently (also sold as > > hyperdrive5) > > You are right. I saw that in a recent thread. In my case I don''t have a spare bay for it. I''m similarly constrained on some of the PCI solutions that have either battery backup or external power. > > But this seems like a good solution if someone has the space.It doesn''t do ECC memory though, which is a real pity. -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
best regards, hanzhu On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:> On Mon, Mar 01, 2010 at 12:18:45AM -0500, rwalists at washdcmail.com wrote: > > > > ACARD ANS-9010, as mentioned several times here recently (also sold as > > > hyperdrive5) > > > > You are right. I saw that in a recent thread. In my case I don''t have a > spare bay for it. I''m similarly constrained on some of the PCI solutions > that have either battery backup or external power. > > > > But this seems like a good solution if someone has the space. > > It doesn''t do ECC memory though, which is a real pity. >ACARD ANS-9010 can support ECC memory and it supports an emulated ECC model for consumer-grade memory stick. See their spec for more info. http://dl.acard.com/manual/english/ANS-9010_9010B%20Q&A_E.pdf> > -- > Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org > ______________________________________________________________ > ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org > 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20100301/7b8e1f72/attachment.html>
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:22 PM, Erik Trimble <Erik.Trimble at sun.com> wrote:> I''m pretty sure that all SandForce-based SSDs don''t use DRAM as their cache, > but take a hunk of flash to use as scratch space instead. Which means that > they''ll be OK for ZIL use. ?OCZ''s ?Vertex 2 EX and Vertex 2 both use the > controller, but they''ll not be available for another month or so, in all > likelihood.I believe the Vertex Pro was canceled. The Vertex LE is currently available, and it uses the SandForce. I don''t think it has the supercap that the Vertex Pro was going to use, so it''s less reliable in the event of a power outage. -B -- Brandon High : bhigh at freaks.com