I noticed talk of pci passthrough seems to always be in reference to VT_D which from my understanding is an intel technology. Is there equivalent and xen enabled functionality from AMD''s svm technology? Mike Power _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Mike Power <mpower@alumni.calpoly.edu> wrote:> I noticed talk of pci passthrough seems to always be in reference to VT_D > which from my understanding is an intel technology. Is there equivalent and > xen enabled functionality from AMD''s svm technology? >AMD hasn''t released the equivalent IOMMU chipset support yet, if I recall correctly it is due out later this year or early next. Cheers, Todd -- Todd Deshane http://todddeshane.net check out our book: http://runningxen.com _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Forgot to CC, so here is a copy of my answer. Forwardl:> Von: Paul Schulze <avlex@gmx.net> > Datum: 10. September 2008 19:33:57 MESZ > An: mpower@alumni.calpoly.edu > Betreff: Re: [Xen-users] pci passthrough and svm > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Mike, > > The bad news (as far as my understanding of this goes, no clue if > its technically correct): At the moment, there is no AMD equivalent > for VT-d. AMD SVM is a CPU virtualization extension, comparable > with IVT. VT-d, is an IOMMU, that probably resides with the memory > controller and handles virtualization and protection of DMA. So in > case of an Intel CPU on the mainboard (no clue if it needs special > support on the CPU on top of that). AMD first announced to > implement an equivalent to that technology quite a few years ago, > but up until now there are no products I can think of that include > such a feature. However, CPUs, supporting it are rumored to be > released early in 2009, so there is hope (for me too, because my > Xen server is built on AMD hardware as well). > > And the good news: Even though there is no IOMMU support on AMD > platforms, it is possible to pass PCI hardware through to a > paravirtualized DomU. This feature does not depend on VT-d, with > the exception of PCI passthrough to HVM domains (to Windows for > example). Like I said, I am on an AMD platform and I have succeeded > in passing though multiple devices, including USB controllers, > audio devices and network devices (no graphics cards though). > However, when passing PCI devices to a paravirtualized domain, > always remember that there is no protection against faulty or > malicious memory access due to the missing IOMMU, enabling the DomU > to potentially access even Dom0 memory. > > Cheers, > > > Paul. > - -- > Paul Schulze > Mail: avlex gmx net ($1@$2.$3) > Public Key: http://solaris-net.dyndns.org/keys/key_avlex.asc > > "Making mistakes is human, > but to really screw things up, you need Computers" > > > > Am 10.09.2008 um 17:50 schrieb Mike Power: > >> I noticed talk of pci passthrough seems to always be in reference >> to VT_D which from my understanding is an intel technology. Is >> there equivalent and xen enabled functionality from AMD''s svm >> technology? >> >> Mike Power >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Xen-users mailing list >> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFIyAUFYDWOGtiChoARAoVQAJ47bVjaeE8qG8c7Pa52DoVQPdx+BwCeKXuX > DYlLbR27PkMtF+hTxiaJjK8> =UEFn > -----END PGP SIGNATURE------ -- Paul Schulze Mail: avlex gmx net ($1@$2.$3) Public Key: http://solaris-net.dyndns.org/keys/key_avlex.asc "Making mistakes is human, but to really screw things up, you need Computers" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFIyPaDYDWOGtiChoARAt5zAJ4sKWolvJ+N2D8klsFsNNm0mpkh0ACeJ4ba ma4PGCeBLwbWYQIsYy+vwro=0mAj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
I can not pass through PCI with out VT-d or equivalent AMD doesn''t have a VT-d equivalent out yet You must use VT-d to pass through PCI devices to an hvm Windows must be run under hvm. Hence I can not pass PCI devices through to Windows. Paul Schulze wrote:> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Forgot to CC, so here is a copy of my answer. > > Forwardl: > >> Von: Paul Schulze <avlex@gmx.net> >> Datum: 10. September 2008 19:33:57 MESZ >> An: mpower@alumni.calpoly.edu >> Betreff: Re: [Xen-users] pci passthrough and svm >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hi Mike, >> >> The bad news (as far as my understanding of this goes, no clue if its >> technically correct): At the moment, there is no AMD equivalent for >> VT-d. AMD SVM is a CPU virtualization extension, comparable with IVT. >> VT-d, is an IOMMU, that probably resides with the memory controller >> and handles virtualization and protection of DMA. So in case of an >> Intel CPU on the mainboard (no clue if it needs special support on >> the CPU on top of that). AMD first announced to implement an >> equivalent to that technology quite a few years ago, but up until now >> there are no products I can think of that include such a feature. >> However, CPUs, supporting it are rumored to be released early in >> 2009, so there is hope (for me too, because my Xen server is built on >> AMD hardware as well). >> >> And the good news: Even though there is no IOMMU support on AMD >> platforms, it is possible to pass PCI hardware through to a >> paravirtualized DomU. This feature does not depend on VT-d, with the >> exception of PCI passthrough to HVM domains (to Windows for example). >> Like I said, I am on an AMD platform and I have succeeded in passing >> though multiple devices, including USB controllers, audio devices and >> network devices (no graphics cards though). However, when passing PCI >> devices to a paravirtualized domain, always remember that there is no >> protection against faulty or malicious memory access due to the >> missing IOMMU, enabling the DomU to potentially access even Dom0 memory. >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Paul. >> - -- >> Paul Schulze >> Mail: avlex gmx net ($1@$2.$3) >> Public Key: http://solaris-net.dyndns.org/keys/key_avlex.asc >> >> "Making mistakes is human, >> but to really screw things up, you need Computers" >> >> >> >> Am 10.09.2008 um 17:50 schrieb Mike Power: >> >>> I noticed talk of pci passthrough seems to always be in reference to >>> VT_D which from my understanding is an intel technology. Is there >>> equivalent and xen enabled functionality from AMD''s svm technology? >>> >>> Mike Power >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Xen-users mailing list >>> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) >> >> iD8DBQFIyAUFYDWOGtiChoARAoVQAJ47bVjaeE8qG8c7Pa52DoVQPdx+BwCeKXuX >> DYlLbR27PkMtF+hTxiaJjK8>> =UEFn >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > - -- > Paul Schulze > Mail: avlex gmx net ($1@$2.$3) > Public Key: http://solaris-net.dyndns.org/keys/key_avlex.asc > > "Making mistakes is human, > but to really screw things up, you need Computers" > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFIyPaDYDWOGtiChoARAt5zAJ4sKWolvJ+N2D8klsFsNNm0mpkh0ACeJ4ba > ma4PGCeBLwbWYQIsYy+vwro> =0mAj > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Friday 12 September 2008, Mike Power wrote:> I can not pass through PCI with out VT-d or equivalent > AMD doesn''t have a VT-d equivalent out yeti thought AMD''s IOMMU predated Intel''s VT-d. am i missing something? or maybe the respective code isn''t as mature?> You must use VT-d to pass through PCI devices to an hvm > Windows must be run under hvm. > > Hence I can not pass PCI devices through to Windows.ah, the joys of closed software and poorly designed hardware... -- Javier _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Javier, As far as I know, there are no AMD CPUs with an IOMMU available (did quite a bit of research on that after I bought my AMD system). It might be possible to do something similar with the current processor features and some software, but I doubt anyone would want to try, because it would potentially hit performance very hard. The reason why you might think AMD CPUs have an IOMMU may be because they announced the feature first (as far as I know), but never made good on that "promise" and Intel beat them to it. After taking over ATI, I think they shifted to developing a combined platform first. Now they seem to be planning to release CPUs, supporting that feature, in early 2009, but I believe these will be high powered server CPUs (which makes them more or less useless for my setups). Cheers, Paul. - -- Paul Schulze Mail: avlex gmx net ($1@$2.$3) Public Key: http://solaris-net.dyndns.org/keys/key_avlex.asc "Making mistakes is human, but to really screw things up, you need Computers" Am 13.09.2008 um 17:24 schrieb Javier Guerra Giraldez:> On Friday 12 September 2008, Mike Power wrote: >> I can not pass through PCI with out VT-d or equivalent >> AMD doesn''t have a VT-d equivalent out yet > > i thought AMD''s IOMMU predated Intel''s VT-d. am i missing something? > > or maybe the respective code isn''t as mature? > >> You must use VT-d to pass through PCI devices to an hvm >> Windows must be run under hvm. >> >> Hence I can not pass PCI devices through to Windows. > > ah, the joys of closed software and poorly designed hardware... > > -- > Javier > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFIy+xgYDWOGtiChoARApyVAJ9RCo4RWUqoGrb/MhuYAAbZkibfZwCeOFQA cCLCd7J+s45B4NS62bI6/EM=Z6tY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Javier Guerra Giraldez <javier@guerrag.com> wrote:> On Friday 12 September 2008, Mike Power wrote: >> I can not pass through PCI with out VT-d or equivalent >> AMD doesn''t have a VT-d equivalent out yet > > i thought AMD''s IOMMU predated Intel''s VT-d. am i missing something? >The IOMMU support that AMD has in first generataion AMD-V is not the full IOMMU support needed for secure passthrough. Intel VT-d is the only choice at this point, but AMD support is coming soon. here is a link that will help add to the confusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOMMU They don''t seem to mention (at a quick glance) that the AMD IOMMU support in the older AMD stuff is not the full functionality required for virtualization DMA protection support. Muli is the expert on this sort of thing, browse these threads and see that there is a IOMMU GART and IOMMU that supports DMA re-mapping etc. http://xen.markmail.org/search/?q=IOMMU#query:IOMMU%20from%3A%22Muli%20Ben-Yehuda%22+page:1+mid:t2iir5dcee7rfpe6+state:results Cheers, Todd -- Todd Deshane http://todddeshane.net check out our book: http://runningxen.com _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users