Xen users - Jun 2008 - Other virtualization technologies alongside xen?

Does xen play nice with any other virtualization technologies?  I tried vmware
and virtualbox, but they both crash under the xen kernel.

Russ
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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Hi Russ, due to its architecture, I think Xen is not playing well with other
virtualization technologies. So I would say either Xen, or others.

Emre

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:55 AM, <russ@vshift.com> wrote:
> Does xen play nice with any other virtualization technologies?  I tried
> vmware and virtualbox, but they both crash under the xen kernel.
>
> Russ
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
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>


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On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:55 AM,  <russ@vshift.com>
wrote:
> Does xen play nice with any other virtualization technologies?  I tried
vmware and virtualbox, but they both crash under the xen kernel.
We have couple servers with xen and openvz. They are doing quite
alright next to each other. CentOS5.

-- 
Andrzej Wolski aka Taihen
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Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:55 AM,  <russ@vshift.com> wrote:
>   
>> Does xen play nice with any other virtualization technologies?  I tried
vmware and virtualbox, but they both crash under the xen kernel.
>>     
>
> We have couple servers with xen and openvz. They are doing quite
> alright next to each other. CentOS5.
>
>   
Are you saying that you''re running an OpenVZ server , with openVZ
VM''s,
in a Xern domU? Doesn''t  that cause a big network bottleneck, and a NAT
headache?

-- 

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Rudi Ahlers
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On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Rudi Ahlers <Rudi@softdux.com>
wrote:
> Andrzej Wolski wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:55 AM,  <russ@vshift.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Does xen play nice with any other virtualization technologies?  I
tried
>>> vmware and virtualbox, but they both crash under the xen kernel.
>>>
>>
>> We have couple servers with xen and openvz. They are doing quite
>> alright next to each other. CentOS5.
>>
>
> Are you saying that you''re running an OpenVZ server , with openVZ
VM''s, in a
> Xern domU? Doesn''t  that cause a big network bottleneck, and a NAT
headache?
No, no, that would be silly :)

I''m saying that on physical server I have openvz server and xen dom0
_next_ to each other, not on top of each other.

-- 
Andrzej Wolski aka Taihen
mailto/xmpp: taihen@taihen.org

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On 13 Jun 2008, at 16:13, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> I''m saying that on physical server I have openvz server and xen
dom0
> _next_ to each other, not on top of each other.
You mean you''re running openvz on one machine and xen on another?

> Andrzej Wolski aka Taihen
Regards,
Thomas

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No, he means that OpenVZ is installed inside of his Xen dom0.  OpenVZ actually
does run on top of Xen, but it''s in dom0, not in a domU.

-Nick
>>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at  8:23 AM, Thomas Ronner
<thomas@ronner.org> wrote:

On 13 Jun 2008, at 16:13, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> I''m saying that on physical server I have openvz server and xen
dom0
> _next_ to each other, not on top of each other.
You mean you''re running openvz on one machine and xen on another?

> Andrzej Wolski aka Taihen
Regards,
Thomas





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On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Nick Couchman <Nick.Couchman@seakr.com>
wrote:
>  No, he means that OpenVZ is installed inside of his Xen dom0.  OpenVZ
> actually does run on top of Xen, but it''s in dom0, not in a domU.
>
>  -Nick
>
>
> >>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at  8:23 AM, Thomas Ronner
<thomas@ronner.org>
> wrote:
>
>
> On 13 Jun 2008, at 16:13, Andrzej Wolski wrote:
>
> > I''m saying that on physical server I have openvz server and
xen dom0
> > _next_ to each other, not on top of each other.
>
> You mean you''re running openvz on one machine and xen on another?
>
>
kqemu works with xen and that''s about it. On my server VMware will load
it''s
module and the interface will open but it won''t start any VMs.
Virtualbox
will drop your server like a rock as soon as you load the device driver.
I''ve heard of people running hypervisors inside of VMware though. KVM
and
Xen are incompatible of course but that''s expected since
they''re doing the
same thing.

OpenVZ/Virtuozzo should work because they''re not really Virtual
Machines.

I''m going to be running VirtualBox and qemu together because
I''m using vbox
for a project but I need a mips machine and qemu will do that and the two
play nice or at least it seems like they do. The real mips machine is 266mhz
so even though qemu is slow I think it will be fine on a Xeon...

Grant


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> kqemu works with xen and that''s about it.
Hmmm.  Are you talking about running kqemu in an HVM domU?  I''d expect
that to
maybe work but it "shouldn''t" work in dom0 in that the kernel
module ought
not to be able to do its job.

Vanilla qemu should work fine since it''s just a userspace app.
> On my server VMware will load 
> it''s module and the interface will open but it won''t
start any VMs.
> Virtualbox will drop your server like a rock as soon as you load the device
> driver. I''ve heard of people running hypervisors inside of VMware
though.
> KVM and Xen are incompatible of course but that''s expected since
they''re
> doing the same thing.
You might be able to run Xen (with PV guests only) in a KVM virtual machine.  
I''ve managed to run PV Xen in an HVM Xen domain before.
> OpenVZ/Virtuozzo should work because they''re not really Virtual
Machines.
Yep, provided you find a compatible kernel patch if using them with a PV 
kernel.  OpenVZ were offering dual-purpose Xen / OpenVZ kernels for RHEL last 
I heard.

Cheers,
Mark
> I''m going to be running VirtualBox and qemu together because
I''m using vbox
> for a project but I need a mips machine and qemu will do that and the two
> play nice or at least it seems like they do. The real mips machine is
> 266mhz so even though qemu is slow I think it will be fine on a Xeon...
>
> Grant


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> >> Does xen play nice with any other virtualization technologies?  I
tried
> >> vmware and virtualbox, but they both crash under the xen kernel.
> >
> > We have couple servers with xen and openvz. They are doing quite
> > alright next to each other. CentOS5.
>
> Are you saying that you''re running an OpenVZ server , with openVZ
VM''s,
> in a Xern domU? Doesn''t  that cause a big network bottleneck, and
a NAT
> headache?
If you ran it in a Xen PV domU (or maybe an HVM domain with PV net drivers) 
the network performance ought to be OK.  Other than maybe generating more 
traffic, it''s not going to seem much different to Xen, I''d
have thought?

There *is* an argument for running OpenVZ VMs in a domU only, I suppose: a 
kernel exploit can - in principle - allow an OpenVZ guest to take over the 
kernel and thus the whole OpenVZ machine.  If your OpenVZ is in a domU this 
puts a hard barrier between your OpenVZ VMs and dom0, just as you already 
have between other Xen domains and dom0.

Cheers,
Mark

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Andrzej Wolski wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:55 AM,  <russ@vshift.com> wrote:
>> Does xen play nice with any other virtualization technologies?  I tried
vmware and virtualbox, but they both crash under the xen kernel.
> 
> We have couple servers with xen and openvz. They are doing quite
> alright next to each other. CentOS5.
> 
Yeah but OpenVZ isn''t really a virtualisation environment; its more of
a
highly sophisticated chroot.


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>
> You might be able to run Xen (with PV guests only) in a KVM virtual
> machine.
> I''ve managed to run PV Xen in an HVM Xen domain before.
>
You can run Xen in KVM, I tried it once. One thing you can''t do is run
Xen
guests
in bridge mode within a KVM guest. This was a know problem, not sure if it
is something
that could be/was fixed or not.

Cheers,
Todd


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