llvm dev - Aug 2014 - [LLVMdev] [RFC] Raising minimum required Visual Studio version to 2013 for trunk

I’d like to propose raising the minimum required compiler for the LLVM &
Clang trunks for Visual Studio to MSVC 2013.

Doing this will allow us to take advantage of a bunch of C++11 features that are
not supported by MSVC 2012. According to MSDN
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx) the list is:

* Non-static data member initializers
* Variadic templates
* Initializer lists
* Default template arguments for function templates
* Expression SFINAE
* Alias templates
* Delegating constructors
* Explicit conversion operators
* Raw string literals
* Defaulted and deleted functions

Questions, comments, concerns, general feedback?

-Chris

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Chris Bieneman <beanz at apple.com>
wrote:
> I’d like to propose raising the minimum required compiler for the LLVM
& Clang trunks for Visual Studio to MSVC 2013.
>
> Doing this will allow us to take advantage of a bunch of C++11 features
that are not supported by MSVC 2012. According to MSDN
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx) the list is:
>
> * Non-static data member initializers
> * Variadic templates
> * Initializer lists
> * Default template arguments for function templates
> * Expression SFINAE
> * Alias templates
> * Delegating constructors
> * Explicit conversion operators
> * Raw string literals
> * Defaulted and deleted functions
>
> Questions, comments, concerns, general feedback?
We shifted the minimum MSVC version to 2012 in January of this year,
and have run into only a few issues where C++11 features exist in MSVC
2013 but not MSVC 2012. So I'm wondering what problem this solves in
practice for our code base?

Personally, I use MSVC 2013 instead of 2012. But I would hesitate to
switch to 2013 as the minimum supported version just yet. It's been
out for less than two years and until "14" drops, it is the newest
version of the compiler. When we made the switch, the goal was to
support only the last two versions of MSVC, and I don't see any strong
evidence to support expediting that schedule. I think this is a great
plan for when "14" is officially released.

~Aaron

On Aug 18, 2014, at 4:00 PM, Aaron Ballman <aaron at aaronballman.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Chris Bieneman <beanz at apple.com>
wrote:
>> I’d like to propose raising the minimum required compiler for the LLVM
& Clang trunks for Visual Studio to MSVC 2013.
>> 
>> Doing this will allow us to take advantage of a bunch of C++11 features
that are not supported by MSVC 2012. According to MSDN
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx) the list is:
>> 
>> * Non-static data member initializers
>> * Variadic templates
>> * Initializer lists
>> * Default template arguments for function templates
>> * Expression SFINAE
>> * Alias templates
>> * Delegating constructors
>> * Explicit conversion operators
>> * Raw string literals
>> * Defaulted and deleted functions
>> 
>> Questions, comments, concerns, general feedback?
> 
> We shifted the minimum MSVC version to 2012 in January of this year,
> and have run into only a few issues where C++11 features exist in MSVC
> 2013 but not MSVC 2012. So I'm wondering what problem this solves in
> practice for our code base?
The motivation for me was when I started looking at cleaning up the cl::opts and
really wished that I could use variadic templates. There was also a discussion
on IRC about this last week, and it seemed like there was at least a little
interest, which is why I bring it up.

-Chris
> 
> Personally, I use MSVC 2013 instead of 2012. But I would hesitate to
> switch to 2013 as the minimum supported version just yet. It's been
> out for less than two years and until "14" drops, it is the
newest
> version of the compiler. When we made the switch, the goal was to
> support only the last two versions of MSVC, and I don't see any strong
> evidence to support expediting that schedule. I think this is a great
> plan for when "14" is officially released.
> 
> ~Aaron
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For my money: variadic templates and some bug I hit when trying to use
forward_as_tuple.
On Aug 18, 2014 4:02 PM, "Aaron Ballman" <aaron at
aaronballman.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Chris Bieneman <beanz at apple.com>
wrote:
> > I’d like to propose raising the minimum required compiler for the LLVM
&
> Clang trunks for Visual Studio to MSVC 2013.
> >
> > Doing this will allow us to take advantage of a bunch of C++11
features
> that are not supported by MSVC 2012. According to MSDN (
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx) the list is:
> >
> > * Non-static data member initializers
> > * Variadic templates
> > * Initializer lists
> > * Default template arguments for function templates
> > * Expression SFINAE
> > * Alias templates
> > * Delegating constructors
> > * Explicit conversion operators
> > * Raw string literals
> > * Defaulted and deleted functions
> >
> > Questions, comments, concerns, general feedback?
>
> We shifted the minimum MSVC version to 2012 in January of this year,
> and have run into only a few issues where C++11 features exist in MSVC
> 2013 but not MSVC 2012. So I'm wondering what problem this solves in
> practice for our code base?
>
> Personally, I use MSVC 2013 instead of 2012. But I would hesitate to
> switch to 2013 as the minimum supported version just yet. It's been
> out for less than two years and until "14" drops, it is the
newest
> version of the compiler. When we made the switch, the goal was to
> support only the last two versions of MSVC, and I don't see any strong
> evidence to support expediting that schedule. I think this is a great
> plan for when "14" is officially released.
>
> ~Aaron
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu         http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev
>
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Disclaimer: I work at Microsoft.
>From your list: expression SFINAE is listed as "no";  and support
for
defaulted and deleted constructors is only partial in VS 2013 (see the
recent blog post about VS 2014 CTP 3).   Please report bugs you may find in
VC 2013 if they aren't fixed in the latest CTP.  Thanks!

-- Gaby

On Monday, August 18, 2014, Chris Bieneman <beanz at apple.com> wrote:
> I’d like to propose raising the minimum required compiler for the LLVM
&
> Clang trunks for Visual Studio to MSVC 2013.
>
> Doing this will allow us to take advantage of a bunch of C++11 features
> that are not supported by MSVC 2012. According to MSDN (
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx) the list is:
>
> * Non-static data member initializers
> * Variadic templates
> * Initializer lists
> * Default template arguments for function templates
> * Expression SFINAE
> * Alias templates
> * Delegating constructors
> * Explicit conversion operators
> * Raw string literals
> * Defaulted and deleted functions
>
> Questions, comments, concerns, general feedback?
>
> -Chris
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> LLVMdev at cs.uiuc.edu <javascript:;>         http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev
>
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