Syslinux - Jan 2014 - USB boot problems on Gigabyte GA-M55Plus-S3G

In message <BLU0-SMTP145A44932CB6CC2DB4621568BB30 at phx.gbl>, 
Ady <ady-sf at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Recent (testing) Clonezilla versions include changes related to 
>booting problems, so there are valid reasons to try the very latest 
>version available. At the time I am writing this email, Clonezilla 
>Live 2.2.1-22 is the latest available (at this moment, under 
>(clonezilla_live_testing). This Clonezilla Live version uses Syslinux 
>6.03-pre1.
>...
>Please avoid using any dd' method at this time...
>...
>... Please, at this time use the manual method ...
Alright, I have done exactly as you've asked, and I have meticulously
followed the instructions on the Clonezilla web site for "manual"
install to the letter.

Unfortunately, regardless of whether I perform Step #4 (i.e. running
the "makeboot.bat" script) while logged in as a user with Admin privs,
or under an ordinary user account... the instructions on the web site
neglect to say which is preferred... the first two lines printed by
the script, after hitting an initial key to accept that the process
will apply to the current (USB) drive, the first two lines that are
printed by the "makeboot.bat" script immediately thereafter are
quite entirely disconcerting:

	Accessing physical drive: Access is denied.
	Did not successfully update the MBR; continuing...

The lines printed after the above are entirely perplexing, given the
content of the above messages:

	~~~~~~~~~~ Congratulations ~~~~~~~~~~

	The hidden file ldlinux.sys has been installed
	Your D: drive should now be bootable.
	//NOTE// If your USB flash drive fails to boot (maybe buggy BIOS), try to use
"syslinux -sfmar D:".

	Press any key to exit this window!

Obviously, in addition to any/all other problems illustrated by the above
quoted messages, I need to head down now to my local Fry's Electronics
store and purchase a better keyboard.  The one I have doesn't have an
"any" key. :-)

(I assume that that last step suggested by the messages must be REALLY
exciting too!   Elsewise, why would it be followed by an exclamation mark!?!)

But seriously folks, what exactly is up with the messages above?  I do not
wish to be either rude or impertinent, however I do feel compelled to ask:
Under what curcumstances, exactly (and in what Universe, exactly) does it
make sense for a program... i.e. *any* program (or any script)... to issue
what looks, from where I am sitting, like not one but _two_ messages, clearly
saying that the program failed to do its intended job, and then, immediately
after that, extend "Congratulations" to the user, along with other,
quite
obviously contradictory messages, indicating the exact opposite, i.e. that
everything has gone entirely according to plan after all?

I have no idea who wrote "makeboot.bat", and I do not wish to offend
anyone,
either here or elsewhere, but I do feel compelled to say that my personal
experience with that script so far leads me to the belief that it could
stand some improvement.

In any case, back to the business at hand...

After having meticulously and carefully performed all steps under the
heading "MS Windows Method B: Manual" on the Clonezilla install
instruc-
tions page, and after having gotten the messages noted above, I nontheless
shut down Windows 7, removed the Windows 7 drive from the system, and then
powered the system down.  I then powered it up again with only the freshly
minted Clonezilla USB stick installed (into one of the rear USB sockets,
i.e. one which is directly on the motherboard).  The results were as
follows:

	SYSLINUX 6.03 CHS 6.03-pre1 ...

	Failed to load ldlinux.c32
	Boot failed: please change disks and press a key to continue.

Allow me to say that I _do_ understand that with these kinds of boot-time
things there are or may be certain hard limits on the sizes of the
programs implementing the various phases of the bootstrap process, and
that such limits might very well acount for a certain brevity when it
comes to the various error messages that may be produced by the various
programs involved.  I am also cognizant of the fact that I personally
have not earned the right to comment on any of this, due to me not having
invested any of my own sweat into the production of these helpful tools.
Nontheless, I would like to offer the humble suggestion that the message
"Failed to load ldlinux.c32" could perhaps benefit from some
additional
elaboration and detail, specifically, either some verbage or, at the
very least, some attached numeric code which might further indicate the
nature and/or cause of the failure.  I cannot imagine how such additional
information would be harmful.
>Please let us know how it goes. Feedback is needed and appreciated.
I have done what I can along these lines for the time being.  But I
do think that I've had enough fun with this stuff for one day.  Perhaps
I'll read over the other messages posted in this thread tomorrow, and
if there are any other helpful tests that I can do I will see if I can
make time to do those tomorrow.

I do feel compelled to say however that the option of just simply getting
a different motherboard is looking more appealing all the time.  I'm not
entirely sure how much more of this fun I will really want to subject
myself to.


Regards,
rfg

> 
> 	SYSLINUX 6.03 CHS 6.03-pre1 ...
> 
> 	Failed to load ldlinux.c32
> 	Boot failed: please change disks and press a key to continue.
> 
 
First, let me clarify that all the scripts and procedures in the 
Clonezilla site are not related to this official Syslinux mailing 
list or to The Syslinux Project. They are done by the Clonezilla 
team.

Now that I know you are working under Windows, let me suggest the 
following procedure:

1_ Boot up Windows, download RUFUS, plug in your USB drive, run RUFUS 
and format your USB drive with MBR and a *FAT32* filesystem.
Warning: Be very careful to select the *correct* drive in RUFUS!

BTW, which type of USB drive we are talking about? And which 
capacity?

2_ Close RUFUS, "safely" disconnect you USB drive, wait 10 seconds, 
connect your USB drive again.

3_ Extract somewhere the content of the downloaded Clonezilla (the 
ISO image or the zip archive, whichever you downloaded).

4_ Copy the extracted content into your USB drive (let's call it
"d:"
for now, but you should use whichever drive letter corresponds to it 
in your system).

So now you should see, among additional files and directories:
d:\syslinux\syslinux.cfg
d:\utils\win32\syslinux64.exe

(there are more directories and files to be copied; I am just showing 
2 examples)

5_ Close any other programs that could be having access to your 
drives (including Windows Explorer, and any non-escential program).

6_ In your Windows Start Menu, look for "Command prompt" (I don't 
remember the exact location; something like "all programs -> 
accessories -> command prompt" or similar). Instead of launching it 
by a simple click, right-click on the "command prompt" icon ->
"Run
as Administrator".

7_ In Windows cmd prompt that has been opened by the previos step, 
and assuming your USB drive is "d:" (change the drive letter 
accordingly in each of the following steps), type in:
d:
cd d:\utils\win32\
syslinux64.exe --directory /syslinux/ --install d:

Once the process finishes, you should see the prompt again. Type:
exit

and pressing [enter] the cmd prompt window should close.

8_ "Safely" disconnect your USB drive, shut down the system, 
disconnect your other drives, reconnect your USB drive, and boot up.

Please let us know the result.

Regards,
Ady.

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 12:12 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette
<rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, regardless of whether I perform Step #4 (i.e. running
> the "makeboot.bat" script) while logged in as a user with Admin
privs,
>         Accessing physical drive: Access is denied.
>         Did not successfully update the MBR; continuing...
On Vista and newer, most administrative actions from the GUI
(including cmd/batch files, etc) requires privilege elevation and
members of .\Administrators may elevate their privileges either
implicitly via a UAC prompt or explicitly (such as right-clicking a
program shortcut and using "Run as Administrator").

-- 
-Gene

On Sat, 2014-01-11 at 06:31 -0500, Gene Cumm wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 12:12 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette
> <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, regardless of whether I perform Step #4 (i.e. running
> > the "makeboot.bat" script) while logged in as a user with
Admin privs,
> 
> >         Accessing physical drive: Access is denied.
> >         Did not successfully update the MBR; continuing...
> 
> On Vista and newer, most administrative actions from the GUI
> (including cmd/batch files, etc) requires privilege elevation and
> members of .\Administrators may elevate their privileges either
> implicitly via a UAC prompt or explicitly (such as right-clicking a
> program shortcut and using "Run as Administrator").

Except that the implicit method is only available when the program
needing the privileges goes out of its way to request the additional
privilege.  It seems unlikely that the batch file in question does that;
in fact, I'm not sure it even can.

What that means is that in order to update the MBR, you'll need to run
the whole batch file with admin privileges.  It's not sufficient to be
logged in as an administrative user; you must also specifically ask for
the program (or your command window) to run with admin access, using the
"Run as administrator" option.  The following Microsoft TechNet topic
describes how to get a command window running as administrator:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc947813.aspx



-- Jeffrey T. Hutzelman (N3NHS) <jhutz+ at cmu.edu>
   Carnegie Mellon University - Pittsburgh, PA

First, allow me to apologize for taking such a long time to get back
to this small project.  I just had other things on my plate.  My apology
extends to everyone who has offered suggestions or advice, but most
particularly to Ady <ady-sf at hotmail.com>, who has clearly gone the
extra
mile to try to help me get this boot problem worked out.

Before describing the results of his last set of detailed suggestions/
instructions, allow me also to say that I have learned a number of
(arguably relevant) things since last Friday.

First, as I've now learned, when I said before that I could not even get
Windows 7 to boot off USB with this motherboard, it turns out that that
was not entirely accurate (and I should have been more clear about what
really happens when I try this).  In fact, what was happening when I
tried this was that Windows 7 was getting to the point of showing
"Starting Windows" on the screen, and then it would hang.  What
I've
learned since last Friday is that this is actually, most probably,
the expected outcome on essentially _any_ motherboard.  Apparently,
as I have now learned first-hand, Microsoft has, for better or worse,
hobbled the stock Win7 install disks in such a way that if you use
one to try to _install_ Win7 on any kind of USB-attached device, that
attempt will fail.  The good news is that the messages you get
when it does fail are crystal clear.  Win7 cannot be installed on any
device attached via either USB or Firewire.  End of story.  The installer
just doesn't let you even try.  However what you _can_ do is to take a
drive (e.g. a 2.5" laptop drive) attach it via some sATA port, install
win7 onto it, and THEN you can remove it, jam it into an external USB
2/0 (or 3.0) external enclosure, and then plug it into a USB 2.0 port
and then try to coerce your motherboard into booting off that.  This is
exactly what I did before, and this... apparently predictably... results
in Win7 booting _partially_.  But the boot process dies early because
apparently, MS, in its infinite wisdom, decided that loading USB drivers
early enough during the boot process to support this exact kind of thing
was not something that they wished to do... at least not by default.
(Rumor has it that booting an already-installed bootable copy of Win7
from a USB-attached drive _can_ actually be made to work, if one has
the time and patience and additional equipment... i.e. another bootable
Windows system drive... which would enable one to diddle some rather
specific registry entries on the external drive that one wishes to boot
from while it is connected via USB.  That is what has been alleged
in some places anyway.)

Anyway, I just felt that I should correct my earlier mis-speech.  In
point of fact, Win7 kinda sorta boots A LITTLE BIT when it is on a drive
attached via USB to a Gigabyte GA-M55Plus-S3G.  But only up to the
point where MS, in typical fashion, made the OS boot no further (via
USB), probably deliberately, and definitely everywhere, i.e. on every
type of motheboard under the sun.

More new info:  I got another response from Gigabyte tech support to my
probing questions about boot issues/problems relating to the GA-M55Plus-S3G.
In it, they insisted that yes, this motherboard _can_ in fact be booted
from some bootable USB device, HOWEVER, as they clarified for me, the
only instances in which this can happen are ones where the desired boot
device shows up in the BIOS list when one requests to adjust "Hard drive
boot priority" in the BIOS setup menus.  If the device doesn't show up
there, then (apparently) that means the BIOS simply will not boot from
that thing.  End of story.  If on the other hand, it *does* appear in
that list, then at least you have a fighting chance, and then, if all
else is OK, then you should be able to boot from it.  (An interesting
footnote is that apparently, as my own experiments have indicated, if
the thing does show up in the Boot Priority list, then... somewhat oddly...
it doesn't even matter if you either "Hard Drive" or
"USB-HDD" selected
as one of your 3 possible prioritized boot devices in the "Advanced
BIOS Features" menu.   Having either of those in the list _will_ cause
the bios to go out and try to boot off a USB attached thing, but again,
this is if and only if the USB-attached thing, is showing up in the
"Hard Disk Boot Priority" list.)

One other interesting fact revealed by my testing...  Although _my_
GA-M55Plus-S3G happens to have a 2-port PCIe USB 3.0 add-on controller
card installed, those additional USB 3.0 ports _cannot_ be used for
booting purposes.  The BIOS appears to not even be aware they are there
(and this is perhaps to be be expected, but worth noting).

(My apologies if the above is all either too long winded or just plain
not of any intersst to anybody here.)

Now on to Ady's last set of instructions to me...

In message <BLU0-SMTP474B456618E69FC1FB6D6948BB20 at phx.gbl>, 
Ady <ady-sf at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 	SYSLINUX 6.03 CHS 6.03-pre1 ...
>> 
>> 	Failed to load ldlinux.c32
>> 	Boot failed: please change disks and press a key to continue.
>> 
> 
>First, let me clarify that all the scripts and procedures in the 
>Clonezilla site are not related to this official Syslinux mailing 
>list or to The Syslinux Project. They are done by the Clonezilla team.
Yes, I kinda figured that.  My apologies for the off-topic mini-diatribe.
I just felt an overwhelming urge to vent spleen a tiny bit about the
nonsensical nature of that particular tidbit of the Clonezilla code.
>Now that I know you are working under Windows, let me suggest the 
>following procedure:
I will do my utmost, as before, to follow your instructions to the
letter, hoping that it will contribute to the knowledge base of the
(syslinux) project, however let me be clear... I am fundamentally a
UNIX dude.  I have about 30 years experience working on and under
UNIX (note: _not_ Linux).  I only kown Windows marginally well.  But I
do use it for a growing number of things these days.

I felt compelled to clarify this.  I didn't want you to mistake me for
a strictly point-and-drool newbie.
>1_ Boot up Windows, download RUFUS, plug in your USB drive, run RUFUS 
>and format your USB drive with MBR and a *FAT32* filesystem.
Done.

But of course, I have no idea why you think this Rufus thing is any
more adept at creating a clean fresh new FAT32 filesystem on a USB stick
that Win7 itself is.  What was the point of not just doing this
directly with Win7's built in tools?

Oh!  And also, Rufus had an option to make this stick bootable with
MS-DOS, or with FreeDOS or with "ISO Image".  I used the default,
FreeDOS.  I hope that is OK.
>BTW, which type of USB drive we are talking about? And which 
>capacity?
For these experiments, I have been using a 4GB Transcend USB 2.0 stick.
>2_ Close RUFUS, "safely" disconnect you USB drive, wait 10
seconds,
>connect your USB drive again.
I just did a Win7 "Shut Down" and powered the system all the way down.
Is that close enough?
>3_ Extract somewhere the content of the downloaded Clonezilla (the 
>ISO image or the zip archive, whichever you downloaded).
Done.
>4_ Copy the extracted content into your USB drive (let's call it
"d:"
>for now, but you should use whichever drive letter corresponds to it 
>in your system).
I'm trying to read between the lines here.  I am guessing that you
first would like me to delete all of this FreeDOS gunk off the USB
stick in question, before copying all of Clonezilla to it, yes?

Well, that's what I have done anyway.
>So now you should see, among additional files and directories:
>d:\syslinux\syslinux.cfg
Check.
>d:\utils\win32\syslinux64.exe
Check.
>(there are more directories and files to be copied; I am just showing 
>2 examples)
Ok.
>5_ Close any other programs that could be having access to your 
>drives (including Windows Explorer, and any non-escential program).
I'm sorry.   I botched this step.  I had Windows Explorer open in a
couple of Windows.  COULD THIS ACTUALLY MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING?
If so, please elaborate.  How?

(If you want me to re-do this whole experiment again, but with all
Windows Explorer windows closed, I will, but it seems a bit tedious
and irrelevant.)
>6_ In your Windows Start Menu, look for "Command prompt" (I
don't
>remember the exact location; something like "all programs -> 
>accessories -> command prompt" or similar). Instead of launching it 
>by a simple click, right-click on the "command prompt" icon ->
"Run
>as Administrator".
Done.
>7_ In Windows cmd prompt that has been opened by the previos step, 
>and assuming your USB drive is "d:" (change the drive letter 
>accordingly in each of the following steps), type in:
>d:
>cd d:\utils\win32\
>syslinux64.exe --directory /syslinux/ --install d:
Done.
>Once the process finishes, you should see the prompt again. Type:
>exit
Done.
>8_ "Safely" disconnect your USB drive, shut down the system, 
>disconnect your other drives, reconnect your USB drive, and boot up.
Done, done, done, done, and done.
>Please let us know the result.
Now things get even less far.

Now my BIOS gets down to the point of printing its standard message:

	Boot from CD/DVD :

and then immediately, in the very next line, I get this message:

	Invalid partition table

and then the system is just hung.

I hope that helps!


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  As I was rebooting with the USB stick I created via the process
you described/suggested/recommended/requested above, I took a quick
moment to first go into my BIOS Setup menus and looked there to see if
the fresh USB stick was or was not listed in the BIOS's Hard Disk
boot Priority list.  (See above regarding the significance of this.)

It was _not_ so listed.  Thus, the fact that booting failed is not at
all surprising, based on this one fact alone.


P.P.S.  I am now going to e-mail Gigabyte Tech Support on this topic
for a third and probably final time and tell them that... since they
have assured me that *something* can be made to successfully boot when
attached via the USB ports on the GA-M55Plus-S3G... I would really
appreciate it if they could give me even just *one* example of something
(anything) that the GA-M55Plus-S3G can boot to via the USB ports.

So far, *I* have been totally unsuccessful at getting *anything* to
boot all the way this way with this specific motherboard.