Hello, I am not a programmer but I would like to learn and develop more complex websites than the ones I have done in the past. I will not learn for the pleasure of learning, but I will do it as I need to develop my website. I am pretty good with HTML, and I know a bit of PHP and MySQL. I was about to plunge my head in my big PHP/MySQL book when I realized that it may not be the best programing language to learn. Would you recommend Rails for beginners? If not, what language would you recommend? Thanks a lot in advance. Note: I am sure that some people might say that the best programing language would depend on what type of website I want to create. However, I am not going to learn every languages before starting. Instead, I will just work with constrains of the language I chose. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Etilyeti wrote in post #955186:> Hello, > > I am not a programmer but I would like to learn and develop more > complex websites than the ones I have done in the past. I will not > learn for the pleasure of learning, but I will do it as I need to > develop my website. > I am pretty good with HTML, and I know a bit of PHP and MySQL. > I was about to plunge my head in my big PHP/MySQL book when I realized > that it may not be the best programing language to learn. > Would you recommend Rails for beginners?I think so. It may take you a little longer to get up to speed, but you''ll be rewarded with a very well-designed language and framework.> If not, what language would you recommend?Rails isn''t a language.> > Thanks a lot in advance. >[...]> However, I am not going to learn every languages before starting. > Instead, I will just work with constrains of the language I chose.Poor idea. Of course you can''t learn every language before starting, but it''s silly to choose one that constrains you too much. Ruby doesn''t. That''s why I like it. :) Bonus tip: do all development test-first. Get into the habit of using RSpec, Cucumber, and Autotest as soon as possible. Also set up a version control system (I recommend Git) and use it religiously. These two things are essential to programming in the 21st century. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Rails isn''t a language.I consider Rails to be a domain specific language. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Marnen Laibow-Koser
2010-Oct-18 19:01 UTC
Re: Re: Is Ruby on Rails for beginner programmers?
Greg Donald wrote in post #955221:> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> Rails isn''t a language. > > I consider Rails to be a domain specific language.Parts of it are, but I think it''s limiting to consider the entire framework to be. At least the way I use it, the non-linguistic parts (that is, the object model and request processing) are at least as important as the DSL bits. But I was reacting more to the common beginner''s error of conflating Rails and Ruby.> > > -- > Greg Donald > destiney.com | gregdonald.comBest, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
If you don''t have a great deal of programming experience ruby will take some time to ramp up on. Rails is great but also has ramp up time and will require dedication as well. I also feel I should say that its not just about "programming". Anyone can learn the constructs of an programming language and write loops to barf out html. Its about writing well structured, well designed application software. Rails is providing a framework for web application designers to engineer good software. We''ve moved beyond the days of hacking together unstructured perl scripts to spit out garbled html. The good thing is that rails is much more than php/mysql in terms of web application development. If you do decided to stick to it and learn rails you will gain more in return than you would if you invested your time in php/mysql. I won''t say rails is/isn''t for beginners. I would say if you are willing to learn the ruby programming language (everyone is a beginner at some point) rails will provide you a solid platform to properly engineer your web application. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Etilyeti <etienne.leger-vjQW9gUbLnRBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>wrote:> Hello, > > I am not a programmer but I would like to learn and develop more > complex websites than the ones I have done in the past. I will not > learn for the pleasure of learning, but I will do it as I need to > develop my website. > I am pretty good with HTML, and I know a bit of PHP and MySQL. > I was about to plunge my head in my big PHP/MySQL book when I realized > that it may not be the best programing language to learn. > Would you recommend Rails for beginners? > If not, what language would you recommend? > > Thanks a lot in advance. > > Note: I am sure that some people might say that the best programing > language would depend on what type of website I want to create. > However, I am not going to learn every languages before starting. > Instead, I will just work with constrains of the language I chose. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
If you''re going to work with ruby on rails on windows its going to be painful afik, some plug-ins just don''t work, if you''re using linux or mac things will just work. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! - Share Freely -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Rails is easier for non programmer than it is for professional programmer, mainly because everything its so hard that programmers that come from other languages keep trying to make easy things the hard and so the get stuck often. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Oct 18, 5:57 pm, Rajinder Yadav <devguy...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> If you''re going to work with ruby on rails on windows its going to be > painful afik, some plug-ins just don''t work, if you''re using linux or > mac things will just work."will just work" is subjective. Don''t forget that you need to install development tools, headers and libraries to use pretty much any library that is not provided by the OS, no matter what OS are you using. -- Luis Lavena -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
You must first experience the joy of apt-get or macports. They pretty much make everything "just work" Really its much easier on unix based systems. I ran rails under native windows and cygwin and always had a number of issues that you just don''t run into on a unix based system. I''ve had significant experience with both windows and unix based platforms and the term "will just work" is accurate for unix/linux. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Luis Lavena <luislavena-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Oct 18, 5:57 pm, Rajinder Yadav <devguy...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > If you''re going to work with ruby on rails on windows its going to be > > painful afik, some plug-ins just don''t work, if you''re using linux or > > mac things will just work. > > "will just work" is subjective. Don''t forget that you need to install > development tools, headers and libraries to use pretty much any > library that is not provided by the OS, no matter what OS are you > using. > > -- > Luis Lavena > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Oct 18, 8:54 pm, Dave Bush <daveb...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> You must first experience the joy of apt-get or macports. They pretty much > make everything "just work" Really its much easier on unix based systems. > I ran rails under native windows and cygwin and always had a number of > issues that you just don''t run into on a unix based system. I''ve had > significant experience with both windows and unix based platforms and the > term "will just work" is accurate for unix/linux. >I''m not putting your experience under question, but I''m talking average joe that is coming from Java/dotNET You''re assuming that everybody will figure out which package and under which weird package name convention is required to install and get things to work. Take for example ruby itself in it''s a debian based distro. ruby, ruby- dev, ruby-full and so many others. Then sqlite3, sqlite3-dev and others. Don''t tell me that "get things working on linux is more easy" when the user you''re telling that is not familiar with Linux. Please, don''t assume the world need to convey your understanding of reality, because again, that is subjective. -- Luis Lavena -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Luis Lavena <luislavena-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Oct 18, 5:57 pm, Rajinder Yadav <devguy...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> If you''re going to work with ruby on rails on windows its going to be >> painful afik, some plug-ins just don''t work, if you''re using linux or >> mac things will just work. > > "will just work" is subjective. Don''t forget that you need to install > development tools, headers and libraries to use pretty much any > library that is not provided by the OS, no matter what OS are you > using. >yes and when you have all this, it will just work =), not so on windows!!! if you don''t know how to build from source, i assume if you are on linux you can do this: sudo aptitude install ruby sudo aptitude install gem sudo gem install rails> -- > Luis Lavena >-- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! - Share Freely -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Oct 18, 9:28 pm, Rajinder Yadav <devguy...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > if you don''t know how to build from source, i assume if you are on > linux you can do this: > > sudo aptitude install ruby > sudo aptitude install gem > sudo gem install rails >And now install a gem that needs compilation, like json and tell me if it just works. Or the mysql gem, which needs mysql and libmysql-dev or something like that. (need to install ruby-dev and other packages, build-essentials and others) Again, experience on this is always subjective. The learning curve depends on each user and it''s experience in the past with similar tools added to that the documentation, lack of it and the attitude of the community around that. I can personally say not all what you''re mentioning is true and that you''re ignoring the user and it''s background and focusing in the OS as the bottleneck. -- Luis Lavena -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 10-10-18 08:38 PM, Luis Lavena wrote:> On Oct 18, 9:28 pm, Rajinder Yadav<devguy...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >> if you don''t know how to build from source, i assume if you are on >> linux you can do this: >> >> sudo aptitude install ruby >> sudo aptitude install gem >> sudo gem install rails >> > > And now install a gem that needs compilation, like json and tell me if > it just works. Or the mysql gem, which needs mysql and libmysql-dev or > something like that. (need to install ruby-dev and other packages, > build-essentials and others)Luis, i get what you''re saying but still you''re missing the point! some things don''t build or work on window, this make for a poor experience for a newbee and a challenge for them to overcome. in that frustration i am sure many walk away. why would anyone in their right mind build on window using cygwin? when you got a free copy of virtualbox and the choice of a real linux distro? things just work on linux, less friction, better support all around! as a bonus no dll hell!> -- > Luis Lavena >-- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Maybe subjective but from both sides of the coin. You may find environment setup easier on your platform but you will run into more issues on windows when developing your app. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Luis Lavena <luislavena-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Oct 18, 8:54 pm, Dave Bush <daveb...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > You must first experience the joy of apt-get or macports. They pretty > much > > make everything "just work" Really its much easier on unix based > systems. > > I ran rails under native windows and cygwin and always had a number of > > issues that you just don''t run into on a unix based system. I''ve had > > significant experience with both windows and unix based platforms and the > > term "will just work" is accurate for unix/linux. > > > > I''m not putting your experience under question, but I''m talking > average joe that is coming from Java/dotNET > > You''re assuming that everybody will figure out which package and under > which weird package name convention is required to install and get > things to work. > > Take for example ruby itself in it''s a debian based distro. ruby, ruby- > dev, ruby-full and so many others. Then sqlite3, sqlite3-dev and > others. > > Don''t tell me that "get things working on linux is more easy" when the > user you''re telling that is not familiar with Linux. > > Please, don''t assume the world need to convey your understanding of > reality, because again, that is subjective. > > -- > Luis Lavena > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
virtual rails <http://virtualrails.org/> running on virtualbox is a great way to start On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Dave Bush <davebush-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Maybe subjective but from both sides of the coin. You may find environment > setup easier on your platform but you will run into more issues on windows > when developing your app. > > Cheers, > Dave > > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Luis Lavena <luislavena-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> On Oct 18, 8:54 pm, Dave Bush <daveb...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> > You must first experience the joy of apt-get or macports. They pretty >> much >> > make everything "just work" Really its much easier on unix based >> systems. >> > I ran rails under native windows and cygwin and always had a number of >> > issues that you just don''t run into on a unix based system. I''ve had >> > significant experience with both windows and unix based platforms and >> the >> > term "will just work" is accurate for unix/linux. >> > >> >> I''m not putting your experience under question, but I''m talking >> average joe that is coming from Java/dotNET >> >> You''re assuming that everybody will figure out which package and under >> which weird package name convention is required to install and get >> things to work. >> >> Take for example ruby itself in it''s a debian based distro. ruby, ruby- >> dev, ruby-full and so many others. Then sqlite3, sqlite3-dev and >> others. >> >> Don''t tell me that "get things working on linux is more easy" when the >> user you''re telling that is not familiar with Linux. >> >> Please, don''t assume the world need to convey your understanding of >> reality, because again, that is subjective. >> >> -- >> Luis Lavena >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. >> To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I started with ASP/Access and changed to PHP/MYSQL and then Ruby on Rails/MYSQL. My take is that DHH developed the Rails framework for Ruby because PHP is not object oriented and the other object oriented languages were to code-heavy. PHP is easy to grasp as it is a procedural language. It has low technical requirements and is easy to find affordable hosting support. If you are developing on a PC, you will find PHP much easier to work with. As your projects get larger, you may ultimately "hit a wall" where you lose momentum because of the amount of code you have to plow through to keep going. I was never really successful with Pear, so extending PHP was difficult. There are many more technical hurdles to getting started with Rails, though for large, complex projects, I find it is worthwhile. If you''re serious about Rails, you will likely prefer a VPS over shared hosting and you will need to be comfortable working in a Unix shell. You may need to learn about Capistrano, Webin, Apache, and Phusion or Mongrel as well as Ruby and Rails. Ruby affords more "elegant" programming, and there are many powerful GEMs at your disposal making Rails highly extendable. The Rails framework leads you to a logical application structure, though you could also achieve this in PHP if you know what you are trying to do. The Rails console offers development tools not found in PHP, and the Rails log files are an advantage as well. On Oct 18, 12:35 pm, Etilyeti <etienne.le...-vjQW9gUbLnRBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Hello, > > I am not a programmer but I would like to learn and develop more > complex websites than the ones I have done in the past. I will not > learn for the pleasure of learning, but I will do it as I need to > develop my website. > I am pretty good with HTML, and I know a bit of PHP and MySQL. > I was about to plunge my head in my big PHP/MySQL book when I realized > that it may not be the best programing language to learn. > Would you recommend Rails for beginners? > If not, what language would you recommend? > > Thanks a lot in advance. > > Note: I am sure that some people might say that the best programing > language would depend on what type of website I want to create. > However, I am not going to learn every languages before starting. > Instead, I will just work with constrains of the language I chose.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 19 Oct 2010, at 02:38, Luis Lavena wrote:>> if you don''t know how to build from source, i assume if you are on >> linux you can do this: >> >> sudo aptitude install ruby >> sudo aptitude install gem >> sudo gem install rails >> > > And now install a gem that needs compilation, like json and tell me if > it just works. Or the mysql gem, which needs mysql and libmysql-dev or > something like that. (need to install ruby-dev and other packages, > build-essentials and others) > > Again, experience on this is always subjective. The learning curve > depends on each user and it''s experience in the past with similar > tools added to that the documentation, lack of it and the attitude of > the community around that. > > I can personally say not all what you''re mentioning is true and that > you''re ignoring the user and it''s background and focusing in the OS as > the bottleneck.I do understand your point and mostly agree. However, these days we have Google and a vibrant community to help you out. Just searching for "install ruby on rails <insert os + version here>" will point you to a step-by-step installation tutorial. But agreed, the fragmented nature (even though rubygems and aptitude etc try to make your life easier) and dependency mess can sometimes spoil the fun a bit. Best regards Peter De Berdt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Etilyeti> I am pretty good with HTML, and I know a bit of PHP and MySQL. > I was about to plunge my head in my big PHP/MySQL book when I realized > that it may not be the best programing language to learn. > Would you recommend Rails for beginners? > If not, what language would you recommend? > > Thanks a lot in advance. >I think this thread got a bit hijacked on some slightly esoteric issues. Hopefully this didn''t put you off. I would say Ruby is a great place to start. There is loads of really good stuff on the web that will lead you into good programming practices (I think Marnen said that too). Also it is a beautiful language in terms of readability. It is not a long way from Visual Basic in a superficial readability and scripting sense, but is much more in terms of being a fundamentally well designed Object Oriented language. The thing I found tricky at the beginning was working out the distinction between what was Rails and what was Ruby, but it soon falls into place. Also you need to get used to using the API documentation. But again that falls into place too. There are now the RailsGuides which are excellent. http://guides.rubyonrails.org/ I actually started with a quick Rails Tutorial, and then adapted some stuff I had done in MS access/visual basic into a Rails project under windows. I produced some not very elegant code to begin with, but hey some of that code is still in use after nearly 5 years - I am trying to find time to refactor it now. Whilst Marnen is correct in referring to test-first development, the problem with this is that it can be a massive subject, which in my view makes getting started very hard. I havn''t looked lately, but I never really found any good tutorials that start with test (or at a higher level, behaviour) driven development. So learning to do TDD or BDD is important, but don''t le it put you off learning Ruby in the first place. Maybe someone could suggest some tutorials. It is very easy to play around with Ruby in a shell (irb) and do the hello world type of stuff, and using the rubygems library makes doing more complex stuff a breeze. There are not loads of things to bolt together to get your first progams to work. You can even try the Interactive Ruby Shell online at http://tryruby.org/. Writing an actual program is nothing more than creating a text file and running it under Ruby. And when you want to do something specific, there is nearly always a Ruby gem to help you out so that you don''t have to re-invent the wheel - whether it is accessing databases, scraping web pages, manipulating images or creating pdfs. Just install the Gem (one line command like ''gem install pdf- reader'' ) , require it into your program and away you go. As already stated, there are some drawbacks to using Windows, but they are not show-stoppers. And anyway, it is not that hard these days to set up a Linux system (I use Fedora) As you can probably gather - I am extremely enthusiastic about Ruby and Rails. They have allowed me to develop systems for which I was struggling to find a cost effective solution. My biggest uncertainty initially was "would rails become cumbersome or fall apart as I extended my systems". In fact the opposite has been true. The framework really holds together as your system develops and evolves. There was loads of talk about such things in the early days, but now it is pretty much just taken for granted. Something that used to amaze me was that when I added some functionality into my code, the number of program lines actually went down, because adding the new function often resulted in me doing things in a better or more efficient/effective way. Again these days I take such things for granted, although I do still find occasions when for example, I produce a nice object that builds a super report, or I manage to create a nice object oriented structure to something I am trying to solve. hope this encourages you Tonypm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 23/10/2010 8:56 PM, tonypm wrote:> Etilyeti > I think this thread got a bit hijacked on some slightly esoteric > issues. Hopefully this didn''t put you off. > > I would say Ruby is a great place to start. There is loads of really > good stuff on the web that will lead you into good programming > *snip* > hope this encourages you > TonypmI completely agree with Tonypm. I would have liked to type out a clear well-written post like that myself. I myself started with Rails (before Ruby) and it took me a while to realize the beauty of Ruby. Best Regards, Mohit. 23/10/2010 | 10:21 PM. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.