hi, Phillip Koebbe <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Hm. The first thing I''d say is trying to learn a completely different > language and framework while under pressure is probably always going to > be a recipe for frustration.with emphasis on "under pressure" but that is true for each and every knowledge/experience/learning, isn''t it? time is the magic word to "fill your brain" - always and ever. If you want to learn things, you have to pay the price - and invest the most original thing in universe, which cannot be copied/multiplicated/ hoarded... look at me - RPG on AS/400 - green screen and texts as GUI... i tried 4GLs, C++, Java, PHP, Python, whatever - forgot the most - but you are "corrupted" for the most established environments, when you know the AS/400 - as programmer, the words "OS" or "database" are not worth to be mentioned - because it works - and works - and works... then i worked with a 4GL, which did some nice metaprogramming things.... so i looked for a combination - an environment with nice metaprogrammings, but rescuing me from all that boring stuff about OS/ middleware, databases or browsers... and now i use Rails, because it is the easiest way to do the things you want to do - without always caring about trivialities (ok, not perfectly, but mostly ;-) )...> I don''t mean to belittle you, but trying to > jump into Rails in the middle of everything you''re doing and expecting > to instantly be productive was pretty naive... > But it took some time.the magic word "time" ;-) i also paid the price - and i am happy about my way? Start from the beginning + Do it Yourself i rewrote a simple (but not too simple!) software in RoR, without reading more than an introduction in Ruby, you read enough during the programming ;-) - has two advantages: you learn Rails and you can compare the code btw: the "first code" will surely not be your finest, but you will be amazed by the comparison, i guess... ;-) ff --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Wow! Another RPGer! I thought I was the only one. ;) I still love the iSeries/AS400/i5/System i... and that''s how I make my living but after months of working on the side with RoR for a friend and finally rolling out our first production app I am very happy I have made (and still making) the effort of learning it. Lots to learn, but very rewarding. Pepe On Aug 22, 3:13 am, Oldtimer <bev...-36+Us14uncmELgA04lAiVw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> hi, > > Phillip Koebbe <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Hm. The first thing I''d say is trying to learn a completely different > > language and framework while under pressure is probably always going to > > be a recipe for frustration. > > with emphasis on "under pressure" > > but that is true for each and every knowledge/experience/learning, > isn''t it? > > time is the magic word to "fill your brain" - always and ever. If you > want to learn things, you have to pay the price - and invest the most > original thing in universe, which cannot be copied/multiplicated/ > hoarded... > > look at me - RPG on AS/400 - green screen and texts as GUI... > > i tried 4GLs, C++, Java, PHP, Python, whatever - forgot the most - but > you are "corrupted" for the most established environments, when you > know the AS/400 - as programmer, the words "OS" or "database" are not > worth to be mentioned - because it works - and works - and works... > > then i worked with a 4GL, which did some nice metaprogramming > things.... > > so i looked for a combination - an environment with nice > metaprogrammings, but rescuing me from all that boring stuff about OS/ > middleware, databases or browsers... > > and now i use Rails, because it is the easiest way to do the things > you want to do - without always caring about trivialities (ok, not > perfectly, but mostly ;-) )... > > > I don''t mean to belittle you, but trying to > > jump into Rails in the middle of everything you''re doing and expecting > > to instantly be productive was pretty naive... > > But it took some time. > > the magic word "time" ;-) > > i also paid the price - and i am happy about > > my way? Start from the beginning + Do it Yourself > > i rewrote a simple (but not too simple!) software in RoR, without > reading more than an introduction in Ruby, you read enough during the > programming ;-) - has two advantages: you learn Rails and you can > compare the code > > btw: the "first code" will surely not be your finest, but you will be > amazed by the comparison, i guess... > > ;-) > > ff--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I have been developing a rails powered website for the past year and 2 months. And while I had a limited experience in PHP and come from a programming background (in college) of C++ and Java, I can''t imagine doing what I have done in PHP or any of the other languages I have used. For one, my year project would become a two maybe evene three year project if done in another language. Like I said my PHP programming is limited and I found it relatively easy to learn, but I found rails just as easy but also much more efficient. Since I have started my project I have dived into everything: Credit Card validation, form validation, sessions, dynamic pages, password encryption, guarding again cross-site scripting, user validation and authentication, yada yada yada. And now, even though I encounter a few minor problems here and there, my project is now used by sevel hundred people with that number to reach probobly several thoussand by the end of the year. And I did this fresh out of college and having never even heard of Ruby On Rails untell I was interviewed by my current boss and he asked me: "Have you ever programmed in Ruby On Rails?" Nope. But he still hired me and I am sure glad he did and I hope he is glag he did. All I can say is that I am pround of what I have done over the past year having never used RoR and this being my first job (in the IT field), oh, and I did this all as a one man project, just me, myself and I. Sure I got frusterated plenty of times and had peroids of banging my head against the computer commonitor, but I believe that the same project done in another language would have taken two maybe even three times as long. I''m not going to tell you to give RoR another chance, but I will say that I don''t think you can deny the power behind rails and the fact that you can create ONE HELL of a website in a short amount of time that is not only dynamic but secure and just flat out a KICK ASS. I will agree, however, that the documentation needs help - serious help. Sure Java had some great documentation and it''s easy to critize and say why can''t it be like that for Ruby and Rails? That would be a great project for someone to do, hmmmmm. And also, it is quite a chore to get a server running rails, but, the framework itself saves so much time and effort that I believe it is still worth it to do your projects in Rails despite those setbacks. Alright, I''m done preaching. Good luck to you and whatever decision you make, -S -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Shandy, Your story is typical of those that use RoR. However, the problem that schruthensis describes is that he cannot even get it going to find OUT how good it is. I find that I am in the same boat. I have spent the last 8 days at work and I cannot even get a "hello world" to work in rails. I am ready to gnaw off a limb to survive and am looking into PHP just because I am hoping that I can get something, ANYTHING, to work. I have made great websites in other languages and REALLY want to do it all in Ruby but I cannot get over the initial hurdle anymore than schruthensis can. It is a lot of time and effort to expend with nothing to show for it, especially when there is a boss glaring with looks of recrimination for "lack of productivity." While I am not quite under the same gun as schruthensis, still 8 days with nothing to show is stressful and I can empathize with him. p.s. I have bought books by the stack and ebooks by the disk load. I have read through them and they all show the magic occurring after ruby is up and running. Go figure. Anyway, it is not the books that give the answers either. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Have you tried instant rails? http://instantrails.rubyforge.org/ Should be enough to get you going (assuming that you are using windows at least). On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lloyd Linklater < rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Shandy, > > Your story is typical of those that use RoR. However, the problem that > schruthensis describes is that he cannot even get it going to find OUT > how good it is. I find that I am in the same boat. I have spent the > last 8 days at work and I cannot even get a "hello world" to work in > rails. I am ready to gnaw off a limb to survive and am looking into PHP > just because I am hoping that I can get something, ANYTHING, to work. I > have made great websites in other languages and REALLY want to do it all > in Ruby but I cannot get over the initial hurdle anymore than > schruthensis can. > > It is a lot of time and effort to expend with nothing to show for it, > especially when there is a boss glaring with looks of recrimination for > "lack of productivity." While I am not quite under the same gun as > schruthensis, still 8 days with nothing to show is stressful and I can > empathize with him. > > p.s. I have bought books by the stack and ebooks by the disk load. I > have read through them and they all show the magic occurring after ruby > is up and running. Go figure. Anyway, it is not the books that give > the answers either. > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 2008-08-22 10:13, Lloyd Linklater wrote:> Your story is typical of those that use RoR. However, the problem that > schruthensis describes is that he cannot even get it going to find OUT > how good it is. I find that I am in the same boat.The boat where you try to be a sysadmin without any previous experience? Well what did you expect? Jump in a chatroom and get someone to walk you through it, or hire someone. People aren''t born being good at installing software.> It is a lot of time and effort to expend with nothing to show for it, > especially when there is a boss glaring with looks of recrimination for > "lack of productivity."I certainly hope you don''t think Rails is some silver bullet. Even after you get it installed there''s still a ton to learn. It will be at least several months before you''re "fast" with it.> While I am not quite under the same gun as > schruthensis, still 8 days with nothing to show is stressful and I can > empathize with him.Learning under a deadline is doomed to failure. You should be learning this on your own time, then bringing your new skills into the workplace after a certain level of mastery is achieved. Even if the boss is letting you learn Rails on the job you''re not going to immedietly begin to dish out new projects really fast.> p.s. I have bought books by the stack and ebooks by the disk load.And I suspect you''ve not finished a one of them. Ruby is drop-dead simple to install. Rails is only slightly more difficult. Hire someone to do your initial hand-holding if this sort of stuff is over your head. You could even get a cheap web-hosting account with everything already installed.> I > have read through them and they all show the magic occurring after ruby > is up and running. Go figure. Anyway, it is not the books that give > the answers either.Then look elsewhere. For example I refer to this for a new Mac or Linux setup: http://hivelogic.com/articles/2008/02/ruby-rails-leopard If you use windoze then google for "instant rails". As far as books, "Ruby for Rails" by David Black is excellent for complete beginners. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Gee Greg, you seem extremely harsh by Ruby standards. Perhaps you are a Lisp programmer lurking here? Greg Donald wrote:> On 2008-08-22 10:13, Lloyd Linklater wrote: >> Your story is typical of those that use RoR. However, the problem that >> schruthensis describes is that he cannot even get it going to find OUT >> how good it is. I find that I am in the same boat. > > The boat where you try to be a sysadmin without any previous > experience? Well what did you expect?Holy smokes! Are you saying that only a sysadmin can install instant rails or did you just choose that so you could say something snotty?> > Jump in a chatroom and get someone to walk you through it, or hire > someone. People aren''t born being good at installing software. >I have installed plenty of software. I am looking at tutorials that say that it is super easy and that it can be done in a matter of minutes with the "rolling with ruby on rails" tutorial. I was believing what I was reading. It should have been straightforward, if the literature and posters were to be believed.>> It is a lot of time and effort to expend with nothing to show for it, >> especially when there is a boss glaring with looks of recrimination for >> "lack of productivity." > > I certainly hope you don''t think Rails is some silver bullet. Even > after you get it installed there''s still a ton to learn. It will be > at least several months before you''re "fast" with it.If you actually read what I posted I said that I could not eve get to a "hello world" in 8 days. That is enough for anyone to get frustrated and you are definitely not helping.> >> While I am not quite under the same gun as >> schruthensis, still 8 days with nothing to show is stressful and I can >> empathize with him. > > Learning under a deadline is doomed to failure. You should be > learning this on your own time, then bringing your new skills into > the workplace after a certain level of mastery is achieved. Even if > the boss is letting you learn Rails on the job you''re not going to > immedietly begin to dish out new projects really fast.Again, READ what I wrote. I said that I was NOT "under the same gun" and I was NOT on a deadline. Part of the excercise was to see how easy it was to get something going from scratch as other people would have do be doing that where I work. Learning and doing on the go was the test. I did not start from scratch because I am a goober but thanks for intimating it in an open forum.> >> p.s. I have bought books by the stack and ebooks by the disk load. > > And I suspect you''ve not finished a one of them. Ruby is drop-dead > simple to install. Rails is only slightly more difficult. Hire > someone to do your initial hand-holding if this sort of stuff is over > your head. You could even get a cheap web-hosting account with > everything already installed.When it comes to a book, "finishing" can mean reading it cover to cover. If that is the criteria, then I have. If it means doing every example and making it work the OF COURSE I did not otherwise I would not be having this problem. As that it obvious to the most casual observer, I suspect that you are again saying things this way to be snotty and take cheap shots at me. This seems reinforced when you say at this point that rails is only slightly more difficult than drop-dead simple to install. Well, when you took the cheap shot earlier you said that my wanting to install rails, which is the whole point of what I have been saying, was me trying "to be a sysadmin without any previous experience." I am impressed that you know what my experience is. The change from accusing me of delusions of grandeur to being so stupid that I cannot "install software" on the very same point of contention shows that you are just being confrontational and abusive.> >> I >> have read through them and they all show the magic occurring after ruby >> is up and running. Go figure. Anyway, it is not the books that give >> the answers either. > > Then look elsewhere.That is why I am posting here, Einstein! I read the books and spent time to try to do it on my own. I only posted here when I could not get past the obstacle. To post earlier would be trying to get someone else to do my work for me and I am not that way. That is point of a forum like this is it not? Perhaps you are just having a bad day, but please do not compound my bad day with your own/ -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I''m not sure if anyone suggested this, but why not just save time and get Aptana, Eclipse, or Netbeans? I believe they all support RoR development. On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Lloyd Linklater < rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Gee Greg, you seem extremely harsh by Ruby standards. Perhaps you are a > Lisp programmer lurking here? > > Greg Donald wrote: > > On 2008-08-22 10:13, Lloyd Linklater wrote: > >> Your story is typical of those that use RoR. However, the problem that > >> schruthensis describes is that he cannot even get it going to find OUT > >> how good it is. I find that I am in the same boat. > > > > The boat where you try to be a sysadmin without any previous > > experience? Well what did you expect? > > Holy smokes! Are you saying that only a sysadmin can install instant > rails or did you just choose that so you could say something snotty? > > > > > Jump in a chatroom and get someone to walk you through it, or hire > > someone. People aren''t born being good at installing software. > > > > I have installed plenty of software. I am looking at tutorials that say > that it is super easy and that it can be done in a matter of minutes > with the "rolling with ruby on rails" tutorial. I was believing what I > was reading. It should have been straightforward, if the literature and > posters were to be believed. > > >> It is a lot of time and effort to expend with nothing to show for it, > >> especially when there is a boss glaring with looks of recrimination for > >> "lack of productivity." > > > > I certainly hope you don''t think Rails is some silver bullet. Even > > after you get it installed there''s still a ton to learn. It will be > > at least several months before you''re "fast" with it. > > If you actually read what I posted I said that I could not eve get to a > "hello world" in 8 days. That is enough for anyone to get frustrated > and you are definitely not helping. > > > > >> While I am not quite under the same gun as > >> schruthensis, still 8 days with nothing to show is stressful and I can > >> empathize with him. > > > > Learning under a deadline is doomed to failure. You should be > > learning this on your own time, then bringing your new skills into > > the workplace after a certain level of mastery is achieved. Even if > > the boss is letting you learn Rails on the job you''re not going to > > immedietly begin to dish out new projects really fast. > > Again, READ what I wrote. I said that I was NOT "under the same gun" > and I was NOT on a deadline. Part of the excercise was to see how easy > it was to get something going from scratch as other people would have do > be doing that where I work. Learning and doing on the go was the test. > I did not start from scratch because I am a goober but thanks for > intimating it in an open forum. > > > > >> p.s. I have bought books by the stack and ebooks by the disk load. > > > > And I suspect you''ve not finished a one of them. Ruby is drop-dead > > simple to install. Rails is only slightly more difficult. Hire > > someone to do your initial hand-holding if this sort of stuff is over > > your head. You could even get a cheap web-hosting account with > > everything already installed. > > When it comes to a book, "finishing" can mean reading it cover to cover. > If that is the criteria, then I have. If it means doing every example > and making it work the OF COURSE I did not otherwise I would not be > having this problem. As that it obvious to the most casual observer, I > suspect that you are again saying things this way to be snotty and take > cheap shots at me. This seems reinforced when you say at this point > that rails is only slightly more difficult than drop-dead simple to > install. Well, when you took the cheap shot earlier you said that my > wanting to install rails, which is the whole point of what I have been > saying, was me trying "to be a sysadmin without any previous > experience." I am impressed that you know what my experience is. The > change from accusing me of delusions of grandeur to being so stupid that > I cannot "install software" on the very same point of contention shows > that you are just being confrontational and abusive. > > > > >> I > >> have read through them and they all show the magic occurring after ruby > >> is up and running. Go figure. Anyway, it is not the books that give > >> the answers either. > > > > Then look elsewhere. > > That is why I am posting here, Einstein! I read the books and spent > time to try to do it on my own. I only posted here when I could not get > past the obstacle. To post earlier would be trying to get someone else > to do my work for me and I am not that way. That is point of a forum > like this is it not? > > Perhaps you are just having a bad day, but please do not compound my bad > day with your own/ > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Aug 23, 2008, at 11:32 AM, Lloyd Linklater wrote:> I have installed plenty of software. I am looking at tutorials that > say > that it is super easy and that it can be done in a matter of minutes > with the "rolling with ruby on rails" tutorial. I was believing > what I > was reading. It should have been straightforward, if the literature > and > posters were to be believed.I''m assuming you''re using Windows. I know that''s the default in a lot of places, but it wouldn''t be on this list. If so, I believe with NetBeans you''re ready to go out of the box. (once you''ve installed NetBeans, of course.) That would get you over the hurdle. Getting started on other platforms is very easy. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 2008-08-23 07:32, Lloyd Linklater wrote:> Holy smokes! Are you saying that only a sysadmin can install instant > rails or did you just choose that so you could say something snotty?I''m saying bone up on your basic sysadmin skills before you go blaming Rails or Ruby for your own inability to get it up and running. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Justin Stanczak wrote:> I''m not sure if anyone suggested this, but why not just save time and > get > Aptana, Eclipse, or Netbeans? I believe they all support RoR > development. >That is a good idea. I will give it a go. thanks! -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I''m using Linux, but I think on Windows it would be the same process. I just installed Ruby 1.8 and then installed Gems. From there I just used Gems to install Rails. That''s really all I did to get the whole thing running. All the IDE''s I mention should detect and use what you installed. I know Aptana and Netbeans did for me. I believe both also install the Gems for you if you have that setup. I did the Gems myself though. On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Lloyd Linklater < rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Justin Stanczak wrote: > > I''m not sure if anyone suggested this, but why not just save time and > > get > > Aptana, Eclipse, or Netbeans? I believe they all support RoR > > development. > > > That is a good idea. I will give it a go. thanks! > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Aug 23, 7:32 pm, Lloyd Linklater <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Holy smokes! Are you saying that only a sysadmin can install instant > rails or did you just choose that so you could say something snotty?I''m not the one you''re replying to, but what he said is not without reason. Would you trust a driver who doesn''t have a driver''s license? While you do not need to be a full-fledged sysadmin, is it so unreasonable to expect some *basic* sysadmin skills? Skills that can be acquired by reading a Unix book in a weekend, even. But back to Rails. Yes, you absolutely *need* to learn Ruby before you can use Rails. It isn''t a snotty statement, it''s just a fact. You can''t become an airplane pilot without knowing English. A student is not allowed to take some courses until he has passed some other courses. Some things just require certain skills. That said, some things certainly should be easier. The documentation needs work, but it seems few people are motivated to work on them. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Hongli Lai wrote:> I''m not the one you''re replying to, but what he said is not without > reason. Would you trust a driver who doesn''t have a driver''s license?Actually, I drove a tractor reliably and was trusted with it long before I was of age to obtain a driver''s license, so yes. By the same token, there are those with their license I do NOT trust.> But back to Rails. Yes, you absolutely *need* to learn Ruby before you > can use Rails. It isn''t a snotty statement, it''s just a fact. You > can''t become an airplane pilot without knowing English.Well, actually you can be a pilot without speaking English. I will assume that you cannot be a licensed *commercial* pilot without speaking English. And I do NOT think that I must master Ruby before I run the "rolling with ruby on rails" tutorial. That is not what the tutorial indicates and, having traded a few emails with the author, it is not what HE believes. Remember that I am not trying to get something cool or even something useful going at this point. I am just trying to get *something* going and get the boss to believe that we can use ruby at work. Then, I can get paid to learn it. I thought that would be really cool. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 24 Aug 2008, at 13:07, Lloyd Linklater <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org > wrote:> > Hongli Lai wrote: >> I''m not the one you''re replying to, but what he said is not without >> reason. Would you trust a driver who doesn''t have a driver''s license? > > Actually, I drove a tractor reliably and was trusted with it long > before > I was of age to obtain a driver''s license, so yes. By the same token, > there are those with their license I do NOT trust. > >> But back to Rails. Yes, you absolutely *need* to learn Ruby before >> you >> can use Rails. It isn''t a snotty statement, it''s just a fact. You >> can''t become an airplane pilot without knowing English. > > Well, actually you can be a pilot without speaking English. I will > assume that you cannot be a licensed *commercial* pilot without > speaking > English. And I do NOT think that I must master Ruby before I run the > "rolling with ruby on rails" tutorial. That is not what the tutorial > indicates and, having traded a few emails with the author, it is not > what HE believes.It may be possible but it''s not the path of least resistance ( and probably doesn''t end well when air traffic control are telling you to do stuff ). You don''t need to be a ruby grandmaster but without a basic grounding in the language I wouldn''t be surprised if you were frequently confused Fred> > > Remember that I am not trying to get something cool or even something > useful going at this point. I am just trying to get *something* going > and get the boss to believe that we can use ruby at work. Then, I can > get paid to learn it. I thought that would be really cool. > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---