I recently built a rails application on my local laptop. I built the web application specifically to address one of my business needs. Over time, the application has proven very useful. Because it is useful, I decided that I would put it up online in the future and give other users access. However, I started to realize that other users would have one particularly annoying problem: no off-line access. I have been taking advantage of off-line access by default since I am using the development version of the sight. This is a problem that is somewhat obvious due to the nature of the web and server-side app hosting. When you are using a local app version, it is so easy to stay in "data acquisition" mode: I constantly input data to the local app. Dreadfully, the more I use certain web applications, the more I need them even when my internet status is "off-line." This is a serious drawback for business users and will prevent them from totally switching to server-side apps. The other day I read something about Google releasing a toolkit which was designed to help developers create off-line versions of their web apps. This has the potential to revolutionize the off-line app problem. Think about how competitive sights like basecamphq tend to work. They offer a nice product for sure, however, If I can''t access the app while off-line then I am in an uncomfortable "downtime" position. I also thought that such off-line web apps would cause problems for the account payment structures that exist in sights like basecamphq. If there was an off-line version then how could they impose their account structures? I guess it is just a matter of smart programming. (note: when I talk about account structures I am referring to notions of restrictions on things like number of ''cases'' or ''users'' or ''projects''). Oddly, it would seem strange to use the off-line version of some app and be expected to be charged since I am simply using my local storage and my local bandwidth. Of course, they did all the programming so they expect a piece of silver- this I understand. However, we are dealing with a tech crowd who have an odd psychological Finally, here is my question: Does anyone know if the ruby rails team is developing such off-line app features? I hope so, because Google is posing a threat. A threat? Yes, because if a user can continue using a website while off-line, he/she is most likely to continue using that application! This is so obvious and hence so important. Consider all the times that you had no internet access for several months. Finally, you get back online and you simply open accounts on the latest and greatest websites. Simply put: the web app developers need their users to continuously conduct data acquisition- any delay in the data acquisition process is possible market share disruption. Once again, my question is for the rails developers: have you considered off-line app capabilities? Philip Ronald Dutton -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Have you looked at Slingshot? http://developers.joyent.com/ On 6/8/07, Philip Dutton <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > I recently built a rails application on my local laptop. I built the > web application specifically to address one of my business needs. Over > time, the application has proven very useful. Because it is useful, I > decided that I would put it up online in the future and give other users > access. However, I started to realize that other users would have one > particularly annoying problem: no off-line access. I have been taking > advantage of off-line access by default since I am using the development > version of the sight. This is a problem that is somewhat obvious due to > the nature of the web and server-side app hosting. When you are using a > local app version, it is so easy to stay in "data acquisition" mode: I > constantly input data to the local app. > > Dreadfully, the more I use certain web applications, the more I need > them even when my internet status is "off-line." This is a serious > drawback for business users and will prevent them from totally switching > to server-side apps. > > The other day I read something about Google releasing a toolkit which > was designed to help developers create off-line versions of their web > apps. This has the potential to revolutionize the off-line app problem. > Think about how competitive sights like basecamphq tend to work. They > offer a nice product for sure, however, If I can''t access the app while > off-line then I am in an uncomfortable "downtime" position. > > I also thought that such off-line web apps would cause problems for > the account payment structures that exist in sights like basecamphq. If > there was an off-line version then how could they impose their account > structures? I guess it is just a matter of smart programming. (note: > when I talk about account structures I am referring to notions of > restrictions on things like number of ''cases'' or ''users'' or ''projects''). > Oddly, it would seem strange to use the off-line version of some app and > be expected to be charged since I am simply using my local storage and > my local bandwidth. Of course, they did all the programming so they > expect a piece of silver- this I understand. However, we are dealing > with a tech crowd who have an odd psychological > > Finally, here is my question: Does anyone know if the ruby rails team > is developing such off-line app features? I hope so, because Google is > posing a threat. > > A threat? Yes, because if a user can continue using a website while > off-line, he/she is most likely to continue using that application! > This is so obvious and hence so important. Consider all the times that > you had no internet access for several months. Finally, you get back > online and you simply open accounts on the latest and greatest websites. > > Simply put: the web app developers need their users to continuously > conduct data acquisition- any delay in the data acquisition process is > possible market share disruption. > > > Once again, my question is for the rails developers: have you > considered off-line app capabilities? > > Philip Ronald Dutton > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9-Jun-07, at 12:02 AM, Andrew Williams wrote:> Have you looked at Slingshot? > > http://developers.joyent.com/ > >Phillip, I spent 2 days this week - and on the surface Slingshot looks promising, but I believe it''s too early to be used. My 2 problems at this time are: 1. down synchs seem to work ok, but up synchs deleted locally created records 2. the mailing list is just about vacant (is this mike on?). I posted 2 problems this week, with zero responses from the team. The only legitimate response I got was from someone who suggested I try their plugin if I want to sync data. As I said, I''m pretty hyped about the project and will be keeping an eye on it. Deploying should be quite nice, some desktop integration is promising, but I think the synchs are key to offline (unless you''re always offline) Jodi --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
You might also check out Adobe Apollo although its not quite the same thing. if i understand correctly, you can run web apps on your desktop instead of browser but it doesnt do local/remote database synchronization. http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/apollo/ http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/rails2007/view/e_sess/11565 On Jun 8, 11:54 pm, Philip Dutton <rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I recently built a rails application on my local laptop. I built the > web application specifically to address one of my business needs. Over > time, the application has proven very useful. Because it is useful, I > decided that I would put it up online in the future and give other users > access. However, I started to realize that other users would have one > particularly annoying problem: no off-line access. I have been taking > advantage of off-line access by default since I am using the development > version of the sight. This is a problem that is somewhat obvious due to > the nature of the web and server-side app hosting. When you are using a > local app version, it is so easy to stay in "data acquisition" mode: I > constantly input data to the local app. > > Dreadfully, the more I use certain web applications, the more I need > them even when my internet status is "off-line." This is a serious > drawback for business users and will prevent them from totally switching > to server-side apps. > > The other day I read something about Google releasing a toolkit which > was designed to help developers create off-line versions of their web > apps. This has the potential to revolutionize the off-line app problem. > Think about how competitive sights like basecamphq tend to work. They > offer a nice product for sure, however, If I can''t access the app while > off-line then I am in an uncomfortable "downtime" position. > > I also thought that such off-line web apps would cause problems for > the account payment structures that exist in sights like basecamphq. If > there was an off-line version then how could they impose their account > structures? I guess it is just a matter of smart programming. (note: > when I talk about account structures I am referring to notions of > restrictions on things like number of ''cases'' or ''users'' or ''projects''). > Oddly, it would seem strange to use the off-line version of some app and > be expected to be charged since I am simply using my local storage and > my local bandwidth. Of course, they did all the programming so they > expect a piece of silver- this I understand. However, we are dealing > with a tech crowd who have an odd psychological > > Finally, here is my question: Does anyone know if the ruby rails team > is developing such off-line app features? I hope so, because Google is > posing a threat. > > A threat? Yes, because if a user can continue using a website while > off-line, he/she is most likely to continue using that application! > This is so obvious and hence so important. Consider all the times that > you had no internet access for several months. Finally, you get back > online and you simply open accounts on the latest and greatest websites. > > Simply put: the web app developers need their users to continuously > conduct data acquisition- any delay in the data acquisition process is > possible market share disruption. > > Once again, my question is for the rails developers: have you > considered off-line app capabilities? > > Philip Ronald Dutton > > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
You might also want to take a look at Google Gears: http://gears.google.com/ -H On 6/10/07, Jodi Showers <jodi-BOB1p6JRLoAV+D8aMU/kSg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > On 9-Jun-07, at 12:02 AM, Andrew Williams wrote: > Have you looked at Slingshot? > > http://developers.joyent.com/ > > > > Phillip, > > I spent 2 days this week - and on the surface Slingshot looks promising, but > I believe it''s too early to be used. > > My 2 problems at this time are: > 1. down synchs seem to work ok, but up synchs deleted locally created > records > 2. the mailing list is just about vacant (is this mike on?). I posted 2 > problems this week, with zero responses from the team. The only legitimate > response I got was from someone who suggested I try their plugin if I want > to sync data. > > As I said, I''m pretty hyped about the project and will be keeping an eye on > it. Deploying should be quite nice, some desktop integration is promising, > but I think the synchs are key to offline (unless you''re always offline) > Jodi > > >-- Husein Choroomi Yucca Intelligence Development http://www.YuccaHQ.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Totally different league. Google Gears is aimed at applications that have little or no serverside logic, because basically the only thing you get is a connection to a local database. Everything else (the logic of the app) has to be javascripted. That''s all fine for an offline RSS feed reader, webmail, ... but for applications like most Rails apps it''s just not a viable solution. Everybody always jumps on the buzz, claiming it''s the new coming of Christ because it''s from Google, instead of actually looking what you can actually achieve with it. Google Gears is great for the stuff Google will use it for: taking their online apps that are 99% clientside code offline. On 11 Jun 2007, at 11:41, Husein Choroomi wrote:> You might also want to take a look at Google Gears: > > http://gears.google.com/ > > -H > > On 6/10/07, Jodi Showers <jodi-BOB1p6JRLoAV+D8aMU/kSg@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >> >> On 9-Jun-07, at 12:02 AM, Andrew Williams wrote: >> Have you looked at Slingshot? >> >> http://developers.joyent.com/Best regards Peter De Berdt --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
No, I didn''t say it''s great because it''s a Google product! I''m not even a fan of offline web applications!!! But it''s cool, not because it''s from Google, just because it allows users to access what they need when they can''t be online! Yeah, it needs lots of local javascript code (it took me twice more time prototyping a project using it) and smells duplicate here and there. And in some ways it can be dangerous too. But IMO it can be useful for many Rails applications as they''re mostly database-backed web applications. 37Signals'' Highrise can be more useful when you can access it when you''re on the road. BTW, It''s not an ideal framework for offline application. It''s first framework in this area, the first step, and many lessons should be learnt from it. Best regards, On 6/11/07, Peter De Berdt <peter.de.berdt-LPO8gxj9N8aZIoH1IeqzKA@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Totally different league. Google Gears is aimed at applications that have > little or no serverside logic, because basically the only thing you get is a > connection to a local database. Everything else (the logic of the app) has > to be javascripted. That''s all fine for an offline RSS feed reader, webmail, > ... but for applications like most Rails apps it''s just not a viable > solution. > > Everybody always jumps on the buzz, claiming it''s the new coming of Christ > because it''s from Google, instead of actually looking what you can actually > achieve with it. Google Gears is great for the stuff Google will use it for: > taking their online apps that are 99% clientside code offline. > > On 11 Jun 2007, at 11:41, Husein Choroomi wrote: > > > You might also want to take a look at Google Gears: > > > > > http://gears.google.com/ > > > > > -H > > > > > On 6/10/07, Jodi Showers <jodi-BOB1p6JRLoAV+D8aMU/kSg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 9-Jun-07, at 12:02 AM, Andrew Williams wrote: > > Have you looked at Slingshot? > > > > > http://developers.joyent.com/ > > > Best regards > > > > > Peter De Berdt > > > >-- Husein Choroomi Yucca Intelligence Development http://www.YuccaHQ.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 11 Jun 2007, at 17:12, Husein Choroomi wrote:> No, I didn''t say it''s great because it''s a Google product! I''m not > even a fan of offline web applications!!!I wasn''t pointing a finger at you personally, but everytime some new javascript lib hits all the rss feeds, it''s the almight solution to everything :-)> But it''s cool, not because it''s from Google, just because it allows > users to access what they need when they can''t be online! Yeah, it > needs lots of local javascript code (it took me twice more time > prototyping a project using it) and smells duplicate here and there. > And in some ways it can be dangerous too. But IMO it can be useful for > many Rails applications as they''re mostly database-backed web > applications. 37Signals'' Highrise can be more useful when you can > access it when you''re on the road.Yes, but you have to make *yikes* sql calls from google gears. It''s like being forced back to the first-time php developer ages.> BTW, It''s not an ideal framework for offline application. It''s first > framework in this area, the first step, and many lessons should be > learnt from it.Dojo.offline has been around for some time (they even cooperated on google gears IIRC). But you''re right, an existing barrier has been destroyed, now all we need is for some brilliant mind like DHH, Sam or Thomas to take it to a more useful and developer-friendly level. Best regards Peter De Berdt --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Jun 11, 6:56 am, Peter De Berdt <peter.de.be...-LPO8gxj9N8aZIoH1IeqzKA@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Totally different league. Google Gears is aimed at applications that > have little or no serverside logic, because basically the only thing > you get is a connection to a local database. Everything else (the > logic of the app) has to be javascripted. That''s all fine for an > offline RSS feed reader, webmail, ... but for applications like most > Rails apps it''s just not a viable solution.[...] For the offline RSS feed reader, the feed contents would be in a database locally? Would that be a "legacy" database, or a RoR naming- conventions compatible database? thanks, Thufir --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Jun 11, 8:12 am, "Husein Choroomi" <hchoro...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> No, I didn''t say it''s great because it''s a Google product! I''m not > even a fan of offline web applications!!! > > But it''s cool, not because it''s from Google, just because it allows > users to access what they need when they can''t be online! Yeah, it > needs lots of local javascript code (it took me twice more time > prototyping a project using it) and smells duplicate here and there. > And in some ways it can be dangerous too. But IMO it can be useful for > many Rails applications as they''re mostly database-backed web > applications. 37Signals'' Highrise can be more useful when you can > access it when you''re on the road. > > BTW, It''s not an ideal framework for offline application. It''s first > framework in this area, the first step, and many lessons should be > learnt from it.[...] It has many of the benefits of a virtual machine. -Thufir --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---