I''m curious. There isn''t much talk about it that I can find. Is there anything in particular that it''s lacking? Chris --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Sep 23, 2006, at 11:40 PM, snacktime wrote:> > I''m curious. There isn''t much talk about it that I can find. Is > there anything in particular that it''s lacking? > > ChrisHey Chris- Well the main reason its not used more with rails is that you can only run one rails app per apache because mod_ruby embeds one global ruby interpreter for the whole apache. Rails is not coded to deal with this fact so it doesn''t work very well. AFAIK there is a patch somewhere that allows multiple rails apps on mod_ruby but it never got much traction. I use it for some simple sites with rhtml and rb files but not rails. -Ezra --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
"Ezra Zygmuntowicz" wrote> > > On Sep 23, 2006, at 11:40 PM, snacktime wrote: > > > > > I''m curious. There isn''t much talk about it that I can find. Is > > there anything in particular that it''s lacking? > > > > Chris > > Hey Chris- > > Well the main reason its not used more with rails is that you can > only run one rails app per apache because mod_ruby embeds one global > ruby interpreter for the whole apache. Rails is not coded to deal > with this fact so it doesn''t work very well. AFAIK there is a patch > somewhere that allows multiple rails apps on mod_ruby but it never > got much traction. >Ezra, Thanks for the bit of history. Would you know if FastCgi also have this issue with multiple apps? Thanks, Long --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Sun, Sep 24, 2006, Long wrote:> Thanks for the bit of history. Would you know if FastCgi also have this > issue with multiple apps?No, it doesn''t. FCGI is basically a way to do normal CGI, but keep the interpreters resident between request. Each listener is its own isolated ruby process. The reason why Rails doesn''t work well with mod_ruby with multiple apps is that with mod_ruby, each Apache child has its own Ruby process... if two apps ran under the same apache, the interpreter''s namespace would get hopelessly confused. Ben --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Sep 24, 2006, at 9:34 AM, Long wrote:> "Ezra Zygmuntowicz" wrote >> >> On Sep 23, 2006, at 11:40 PM, snacktime wrote: >> >>> I''m curious. There isn''t much talk about it that I can find. Is >>> there anything in particular that it''s lacking? >>> >>> Chris >> >> Hey Chris- >> >> Well the main reason its not used more with rails is that you can >> only run one rails app per apache because mod_ruby embeds one global >> ruby interpreter for the whole apache. Rails is not coded to deal >> with this fact so it doesn''t work very well. AFAIK there is a patch >> somewhere that allows multiple rails apps on mod_ruby but it never >> got much traction. > > Thanks for the bit of history. Would you know if FastCgi also have > this > issue with multiple apps?Hello Chris. Leading edge thinking on deployment has moved away from FastCGI (which can host more than one application per web server) to towards mongrel, which can also host more than one application per web server. mongrel is much easier and natural to setup and test than FastCGI, as is actively developed by an army of really smart people who have chosen to name themselves, collectively, Zed Shaw. :-) -- -- Tom Mornini --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
"Ben Bleything" wrote:> > On Sun, Sep 24, 2006, Long wrote: > > Thanks for the bit of history. Would you know if FastCgi also have this > > issue with multiple apps? > > No, it doesn''t. FCGI is basically a way to do normal CGI, but keep the > interpreters resident between request. Each listener is its own > isolated ruby process. > > The reason why Rails doesn''t work well with mod_ruby with multiple apps > is that with mod_ruby, each Apache child has its own Ruby process... if > two apps ran under the same apache, the interpreter''s namespace would > get hopelessly confused. >Thanks Ben! This is what I was hoping. Cheers, Long --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
"Tom Mornini" wrote:> > On Sep 24, 2006, at 9:34 AM, Long wrote: > > > "Ezra Zygmuntowicz" wrote > >> > >> On Sep 23, 2006, at 11:40 PM, snacktime wrote: > >> > >>> I''m curious. There isn''t much talk about it that I can find. Is > >>> there anything in particular that it''s lacking? > >>> > >>> Chris > >> > >> Hey Chris- > >> > >> Well the main reason its not used more with rails is that you can > >> only run one rails app per apache because mod_ruby embeds one global > >> ruby interpreter for the whole apache. Rails is not coded to deal > >> with this fact so it doesn''t work very well. AFAIK there is a patch > >> somewhere that allows multiple rails apps on mod_ruby but it never > >> got much traction. > > > > Thanks for the bit of history. Would you know if FastCgi also have > > this > > issue with multiple apps? > > Hello Chris. > > Leading edge thinking on deployment has moved away from FastCGI (which > can host more than one application per web server) to towards mongrel, > which can also host more than one application per web server. > > mongrel is much easier and natural to setup and test than FastCGI, as > is actively developed by an army of really smart people who have chosen > to name themselves, collectively, Zed Shaw. :-) >I would like to know more about Mongrel. What additional benefits does it have over FastCGI? Where can I read more about it? Thanks, Long --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/24/06, Tom Mornini <tmornini-W/9V78bTXriB+jHODAdFcQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Leading edge thinking on deployment has moved away from FastCGI (which > can host more than one application per web server) to towards mongrel, > which can also host more than one application per web server.For the leading-edge folks who have moved on from FastCGI: why did you, and for what sort of app? Have you seen http://defendem.com/read/book/1 ? jeremy --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/ Perform your own tests with the configuration and decide on what''s best for you. Litespeed web server is also a good option. Vish On 9/25/06, Long <long755-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > "Tom Mornini" wrote: > > > > On Sep 24, 2006, at 9:34 AM, Long wrote: > > > > > "Ezra Zygmuntowicz" wrote > > >> > > >> On Sep 23, 2006, at 11:40 PM, snacktime wrote: > > >> > > >>> I''m curious. There isn''t much talk about it that I can find. Is > > >>> there anything in particular that it''s lacking? > > >>> > > >>> Chris > > >> > > >> Hey Chris- > > >> > > >> Well the main reason its not used more with rails is that you can > > >> only run one rails app per apache because mod_ruby embeds one global > > >> ruby interpreter for the whole apache. Rails is not coded to deal > > >> with this fact so it doesn''t work very well. AFAIK there is a patch > > >> somewhere that allows multiple rails apps on mod_ruby but it never > > >> got much traction. > > > > > > Thanks for the bit of history. Would you know if FastCgi also have > > > this > > > issue with multiple apps? > > > > Hello Chris. > > > > Leading edge thinking on deployment has moved away from FastCGI (which > > can host more than one application per web server) to towards mongrel, > > which can also host more than one application per web server. > > > > mongrel is much easier and natural to setup and test than FastCGI, as > > is actively developed by an army of really smart people who have chosen > > to name themselves, collectively, Zed Shaw. :-) > > > I would like to know more about Mongrel. What additional benefits does it > have > over FastCGI? Where can I read more about it? > > Thanks, > > Long > > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> Have you seen http://defendem.com/read/book/1 ? >> http://mongrel.rubyforge.org/ >Both of these links are good reads. So we have at least two architectures to scale rails with. Thanks for the links to both. Long --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Sep 24, 2006, at 12:24 PM, Jeremy Kemper wrote:> On 9/24/06, Tom Mornini <tmornini-W/9V78bTXriB+jHODAdFcQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Leading edge thinking on deployment has moved away from FastCGI (which > can host more than one application per web server) to towards mongrel, > which can also host more than one application per web server. > > For the leading-edge folks who have moved on from FastCGI: why did youBecause it''s wonderful to live in an HTTP world. If something gets weird with FCGI, there''s no way to "see" what''s happening. With mongrel, you can hit mongrel directly with a browser and see what''s happening. All mongrel does is replace the FCGI plumbing with HTTP. Obviously, HTTP is better understood and more tools work with it. As a good example, imagine you have a performance problem. Is it the front end HTTP server, or your application server? How do you test FCGI without involving the front end HTTP server? You cannot, of course. With mongrel it''s dead simple! You can use the same tools you use to test the whole chain...> and for what sort of app? Have you seen http://defendem.com/read/ > book/1 ?I have not seen that, but I have designed Engine Yard, a business critical (Enterprise!) Rails application deployment service, along with Ezra Zygmuntowicz. We have been designing since February, and developing since late July, and I can assure you that mongrel is part of the Engine Yard solution. :-) -- -- Tom Mornini --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/24/06, Tom Mornini <tmornini-W/9V78bTXriB+jHODAdFcQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Because it''s wonderful to live in an HTTP world. If something gets > weird with FCGI, there''s no way to "see" what''s happening. With > mongrel, you can hit mongrel directly with a browser and see what''s > happening. > > All mongrel does is replace the FCGI plumbing with HTTP. Obviously, > HTTP is better understood and more tools work with it. > > As a good example, imagine you have a performance problem. Is it the > front end HTTP server, or your application server? How do you test > FCGI without involving the front end HTTP server?Definitely. The transparency of HTTP and ease of setup are second to none. You cannot, of course. With mongrel it''s dead simple! You can use the> same tools you use to test the whole chain...On the other hand, managing traffic at a high level (HTTP proxy, HTTP protocol) increases response latency and munches CPU like a low level solution does not (TCP balancer, SCGI protocol).> and for what sort of app? Have you seen http://defendem.com/read/ > > book/1 ? > > I have not seen that, but I have designed Engine Yard, a business > critical (Enterprise!) Rails application deployment service, along > with Ezra Zygmuntowicz. We have been designing since February, and > developing since late July, and I can assure you that mongrel is part > of the Engine Yard solution. :-)Rockin. Good luck! jeremy --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I believe another issue with mod_ruby is that since it requires every apache process to have a ruby interpreter and your app loaded, memory footprint increases in an often unecessary way (eg we have ~ 8 fcgi (soon mongrels) running and average 30-40 httpd''s running so if we had to load ruby into all of those things that would be an extra 30 interpreters, easily 600 megs of RAM)). Fred -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 9/26/06, Fred <rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > I believe another issue with mod_ruby is that since it requires every > apache process to have a ruby interpreter and your app loaded, memory > footprint increases in an often unecessary way (eg we have ~ 8 fcgi > (soon mongrels) running and average 30-40 httpd''s running so if we had > to load ruby into all of those things that would be an extra 30 > interpreters, easily 600 megs of RAM)).Unless I''m completely misunderstanding mod_ruby, it doesn''t load an interpreter per process. If it did I''d be a happy camper. I think it just instantiates a new class for each request all from the same interpreter, but I could be way off there. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---