So I thought I was all clever when I added an XML-RPC interface[1] to my nascent application. Then you go and add ActionWebService. Then I thought, hey, live updates would be cool[2], let''s throw something together which I can reuse all over. Then you go and add Ajax support. And, of course, email is like the killer app, so why not integrate with POP?[3] Now ActiveMailer accepts incoming messages. I''m suffering from a little malasie here guys. Why should I even bother? Just let me know when you provide the rest of my application out of the box. I know you''re looking over my shoulder at what I''m doing anyway in the effort to write it all there for me, but just for the record, here are some future ideas: * NNTP Interface[4] * Instant Message integration [5] and [6] * iPhoto Integration [7] * SVN Commits jabber publishing and RSS feed (non-deployed trunk) -w ps. Cool stuff. Where''s the rails-dev list again so I don''t get blind sided? 1. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/New-Head-MetaWeblog 2. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Comments-and-accounts 3. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Posting-from-Email 4. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/NNTP-Posting 5. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Instant-Message-Blogging-Interface 6. http://myelinate.com/svn/imbot/trunk/ 7. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Tada-integration-and-more-on-iPhoto -- Will Schenk http://www.sublimeguile.com http://www.myelinate.com
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:35:50 -0500, Will Schenk <wschenk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> So I thought I was all clever when I added an XML-RPC interface[1] to > my nascent application. Then you go and add ActionWebService. Then I > thought, hey, live updates would be cool[2], let''s throw something > together which I can reuse all over. Then you go and add Ajax > support. And, of course, email is like the killer app, so why not > integrate with POP?[3] Now ActiveMailer accepts incoming messages. > > I''m suffering from a little malasie here guys. Why should I even > bother? Just let me know when you provide the rest of my application > out of the box. > > I know you''re looking over my shoulder at what I''m doing anyway in the > effort to write it all there for me, but just for the record, here are > some future ideas: > * NNTP Interface[4] > * Instant Message integration [5] and [6] > * iPhoto Integration [7] > * SVN Commits jabber publishing and RSS feed (non-deployed trunk) > > -w > > ps. Cool stuff. Where''s the rails-dev list again so I don''t get blind sided? > > 1. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/New-Head-MetaWeblog > > 2. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Comments-and-accounts > > 3. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Posting-from-Email > > 4. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/NNTP-Posting > > 5. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Instant-Message-Blogging-Interface > > 6. http://myelinate.com/svn/imbot/trunk/ > > 7. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Tada-integration-and-more-on-iPhotoActually, the next logical step for rails is to just have generators available for my web applications. i.e. $ script/generate joe_web_application_for_ecommerce_store pet_store It should look at the name given and then generate my store. 1.0 functionality, perhaps?
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:59:38 -0800, Joe Van Dyk <joevandyk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:35:50 -0500, Will Schenk <wschenk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > So I thought I was all clever when I added an XML-RPC interface[1] to > > my nascent application. Then you go and add ActionWebService. Then I > > thought, hey, live updates would be cool[2], let''s throw something > > together which I can reuse all over. Then you go and add Ajax > > support. And, of course, email is like the killer app, so why not > > integrate with POP?[3] Now ActiveMailer accepts incoming messages. > > > > I''m suffering from a little malasie here guys. Why should I even > > bother? Just let me know when you provide the rest of my application > > out of the box. > > > > I know you''re looking over my shoulder at what I''m doing anyway in the > > effort to write it all there for me, but just for the record, here are > > some future ideas: > > * NNTP Interface[4] > > * Instant Message integration [5] and [6] > > * iPhoto Integration [7] > > * SVN Commits jabber publishing and RSS feed (non-deployed trunk) > > > > -w > > > > ps. Cool stuff. Where''s the rails-dev list again so I don''t get blind sided? > > > > 1. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/New-Head-MetaWeblog > > > > 2. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Comments-and-accounts > > > > 3. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Posting-from-Email > > > > 4. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/NNTP-Posting > > > > 5. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Instant-Message-Blogging-Interface > > > > 6. http://myelinate.com/svn/imbot/trunk/ > > > > 7. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Tada-integration-and-more-on-iPhoto > > Actually, the next logical step for rails is to just have generators > available for my web applications. > > i.e. $ script/generate joe_web_application_for_ecommerce_store pet_store > > It should look at the name given and then generate my store. 1.0 > functionality, perhaps?+1 for 2.0, perhaps we can just do... script/generate profits -- Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
This begs the question.... When is enough enough? I am excited about the whole RoR framework but as everything evolves what can we expect of the framework? Will it become another framework packed with all the kitchen sink type things or should we keep things nimble? I laughed when I saw this comment because, I don''t think Bill intended it this way. David is a strong advocate of less software so I''m wondering, is development of the framework going to stop at some point or is it going to follow the natural flow of events (ie. growth, maturity and finally death). At some point there is going to be a way to do things better than in Rails which is good. That would mean we evolved and have not become stagnant. Sorry... I''m being philosophical today and not very instrumental on the technical side of things. It''s food for thought nonetheless. Cheers, Antonio> > for 2.0, perhaps we can just do... script/generate profits >
You can always stick to the releases you like the best. On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:55:47 -0500 (EST), Antonio Tourino <atourino-fHTHtPhtvzrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> wrote:> This begs the question.... When is enough enough? I am excited about the whole RoR framework but as everything evolves what can we expect of the framework? Will it become another framework packed with all the kitchen sink type things or should we keep things nimble? I laughed when I saw this comment because, I don''t think Bill intended it this way. David is a strong advocate of less software so I''m wondering, is development of the framework going to stop at some point or is it going to follow the natural flow of events (ie. growth, maturity and finally death). At some point there is going to be a way to do things better than in Rails which is good. That would mean we evolved and have not become stagnant. Sorry... I''m being philosophical today and not very instrumental on the technical side of things. It''s food for thought nonetheless.-- Tobi http://www.snowdevil.ca - Snowboards that don''t suck http://www.hieraki.org - Open source book authoring http://blog.leetsoft.com - Technical weblog
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:55:47 -0500 (EST), Antonio Tourino <atourino-fHTHtPhtvzrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> wrote:> This begs the question.... When is enough enough? I am excited about the whole RoR framework but as everything evolves what can we expect of the framework? Will it become another framework packed with all the kitchen sink type things or should we keep things nimble? I laughed when I saw this comment because, I don''t think Bill intended it this way. David is a strong advocate of less software so I''m wondering, is development of the framework going to stop at some point or is it going to follow the natural flow of events (ie. growth, maturity and finally death). At some point there is going to be a way to do things better than in Rails which is good. That would mean we evolved and have not become stagnant. Sorry... I''m being philosophical today and not very instrumental on the technical side of things. It''s food for thought nonetheless. > > Cheers, > Antonio > > > > > for 2.0, perhaps we can just do... script/generate profits > >Well, glad you laughed, as that was what I intended. I think you may have meant "I don''t think that''s what Will intended". That said, neither do I. And on a more philosophical note, I''m inclined to agree with you. There should, at some point, be little done to the core but more available as options -- along the lines of the login generator. I''m not sure how much of Will''s wish list (if any) could be done that way. -- Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:02:59 -0500, Bill Guindon <agorilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:59:38 -0800, Joe Van Dyk <joevandyk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:35:50 -0500, Will Schenk <wschenk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > So I thought I was all clever when I added an XML-RPC interface[1] to > > > my nascent application. Then you go and add ActionWebService. Then I > > > thought, hey, live updates would be cool[2], let''s throw something > > > together which I can reuse all over. Then you go and add Ajax > > > support. And, of course, email is like the killer app, so why not > > > integrate with POP?[3] Now ActiveMailer accepts incoming messages. > > > > > > I''m suffering from a little malasie here guys. Why should I even > > > bother? Just let me know when you provide the rest of my application > > > out of the box. > > > > > > I know you''re looking over my shoulder at what I''m doing anyway in the > > > effort to write it all there for me, but just for the record, here are > > > some future ideas: > > > * NNTP Interface[4] > > > * Instant Message integration [5] and [6] > > > * iPhoto Integration [7] > > > * SVN Commits jabber publishing and RSS feed (non-deployed trunk) > > > > > > -w > > > > > > ps. Cool stuff. Where''s the rails-dev list again so I don''t get blind sided? > > > > > > 1. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/New-Head-MetaWeblog > > > > > > 2. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Comments-and-accounts > > > > > > 3. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Posting-from-Email > > > > > > 4. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/NNTP-Posting > > > > > > 5. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Instant-Message-Blogging-Interface > > > > > > 6. http://myelinate.com/svn/imbot/trunk/ > > > > > > 7. http://www.sublimeguile.com/entry/show/Tada-integration-and-more-on-iPhoto > > > > Actually, the next logical step for rails is to just have generators > > available for my web applications. > > > > i.e. $ script/generate joe_web_application_for_ecommerce_store pet_store > > > > It should look at the name given and then generate my store. 1.0 > > functionality, perhaps? > > +1 > > for 2.0, perhaps we can just do... script/generate profits >I think you''re missing a few critical steps. $ script/generate application $ script/generate ??? $ script/generate profit
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:29:25 -0800, Joe Van Dyk <joevandyk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:02:59 -0500, Bill Guindon <agorilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > for 2.0, perhaps we can just do... script/generate profits > > > > I think you''re missing a few critical steps. > > $ script/generate application > $ script/generate ??? > $ script/generate profitThat looks like "Fark on Rails" :) -- Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
My email was a joke -- though there''s an element of truth to it. I''ve been having fun playing around and adding infrastructure things to my application, and now that rails provides them out of the box there is a bit of "not invented here" syndrome kicking in. It''s fun to work on this stuff, and it''s fun to make your app more ''impressive'' than other ones, so someone *cough* stealing my thunder is "frustrating". I can''t believe no one consulted me! This is all obviously pointless, because, for example, the ajax is rails is much better thought out than whatever I happened to cobble together in my spare time. And of course while anyone could check out my code, it''s unlicensed, undocumented and unpublicised. Still working on that... Rails is an interesting beast. Right now it''s been growing very quickly, and I think is able to do so mainly because there''s a lot of "less is more" mentality to the people commiting, and it seems like the have a consenious on what particular "less" will count. A think the lack of obvious misteps at this point are largely in part of what they''ve chosen not to implement. I think that there will come a point, probably after 1.0 and total assimilation of all PHP programmers everywhere, where there will be features demanded or considered which get into thornier issues. Some of the ActiveRecord relationship mapping, for example, or say SQL dialect extraction, is pretty paltry compared to hibernate''s offerings. Using ActiveRecord on a preexisting db schema is pretty much an impossibility, unless you happen to make the same assumptions that rails comes with. While the schema mandates make sense enough once you give it a chance, I personally find them limiting and overly simplistic compared to the ornate structures I deal with in HQL day-to-work-day. Maybe all these books coming out will shed light on my ignorance, but there will be a time where people start using Rails for bigger and more complicated applications and it''ll move into different class of problems to solve. (If I had a dime for ever one-off bash script which somehow is being used in some way I never expected ending up in production, somehow...) I''m rambling because I''ve had too much coffee, but anyway, wouldn''t that be a nice problem to have? -w On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:23:24 -0500, Bill Guindon <agorilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:55:47 -0500 (EST), Antonio Tourino > <atourino-fHTHtPhtvzrQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > This begs the question.... When is enough enough? [...snip...] > > > > Well, glad you laughed, as that was what I intended. I think you may > have meant "I don''t think that''s what Will intended". That said, > neither do I. > > And on a more philosophical note, I''m inclined to agree with you. > There should, at some point, be little done to the core but more > available as options -- along the lines of the login generator. > > I''m not sure how much of Will''s wish list (if any) could be done that way. > > -- > Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla) > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-- Will Schenk http://www.sublimeguile.com http://www.myelinate.com
Will Schenk wrote:> My email was a joke -- though there''s an element of truth to it. I''ve > been having fun playing around and adding infrastructure things to my > application, and now that rails provides them out of the box there is > a bit of "not invented here" syndrome kicking in. It''s fun to work on > this stuff, and it''s fun to make your app more ''impressive'' than other > ones, so someone *cough* stealing my thunder is "frustrating". I > can''t believe no one consulted me!Same here. It feels like rails is always a bit ahead of you, so when you''re finishing up some new infrastructure thing you''ve been working on, comes a new rails release with a (often much better) implementation of the same. Although I''ve dumped lots of code since 0.5, I have a bit of a hard time letting some of my code go. So yea, I guess it''s a bit frustrating because of that. Anyway, I''m still using my own builder class and form helpers.