does there exist anywhere a useful source version of an ACM for vorbis audio? I've seen the binary one somewhere in Japan, and there's an abandoned project at SourceForge, but I'm having a helluva time building it. I know all the caveats about CBR vs. VBR, ACM/AVI problems etc. but I need it anyway. Thanks in advance - ___ Dan Miller (++,) Founder, CTO, On2.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Just as an FYI, we released our game, Candy Cruncher for Windows, a couple days ago. It uses Ogg Vorbis for streaming audio and, yes, it has the license in the README =) No room for a logo unfortunately. www.pyrogon.com/games/candycruncher Brian P.S. Thanks to all those that helped us get streaming audio going! --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Hi Dan, don't try your luck with the Sourceforge project. It is based on beta2 and there hasn't been development for over a year now. If you want to take over, you are more than welcome. best regards, Florian (the nerd that startet that project) -----Original Message----- From: owner-vorbis-dev@xiph.org [mailto:owner-vorbis-dev@xiph.org]On Behalf Of Daniel B. Miller Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:48 PM To: vorbis-dev@xiph.org Subject: [vorbis-dev] acm codec does there exist anywhere a useful source version of an ACM for vorbis audio? I've seen the binary one somewhere in Japan, and there's an abandoned project at SourceForge, but I'm having a helluva time building it. I know all the caveats about CBR vs. VBR, ACM/AVI problems etc. but I need it anyway. Thanks in advance - ___ Dan Miller (++,) Founder, CTO, On2.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Hello. Mr. Miller Dan. I am the author of Japanese version vorbis acm. I understood that you are requiring the source code of the Japanese version. I am preparing the source code and, answer to your question. Please wait a little. And, please guess. As for I the time is necessary, because the education to English is not sufficient, to the reading and writing of English. Thanks in advance Masao Kitagawa freddie-fish@nifty.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
hi Has anyone successfully contacted the author of this ogg ACM codec? http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012897/ I think he once posted here, but he doesn't seem to answer my emails. Basically I want to have the FruityLoops app install his codec, so that we can compress the samples we provide with it. Benefits for us (of reading wav over ogg): sample loop points are preserved (in the wave file), & amazingly usually still work fine. Additionally it's no extra work :) So I wanted to know if it's fine with him, as his auto-translated message is a bit unclear. I always wanted to compress short samples in the past but MP3 was really poor for that, because of unwanted noise/silence before & after the sample itself. Vorbis compresses short & looped samples very well. I read in the archive someone wondering about the use in games, I must say it's perfect for games, unlike MP3. <p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I successfully contacted him, received source code, and got permission to post
it on my site for a project we did -- www.on2.com/vpvision. Please feel free to
use that code off my site under the license terms, which I believe were GPL or
LGPL.
Be warned however that Vorbis+ACM is a nasty combination right now, for various
reasons that Monty can explain if he is so inclined. In a nutshell, there
isn't a good match between Vorbis in its present state and the ACM
interface. This project used six different ACM tags, I never got a clear
understanding of the differences between them.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dambrin Didier [mailto:gol@image-line.com]
Sent: Mon 11/11/2002 6:13 AM
To: vorbis-dev@xiph.org
Cc:
Subject: [vorbis-dev] ACM codec
hi
Has anyone successfully contacted the author of this ogg ACM codec?
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA012897/
I think he once posted here, but he doesn't seem to answer my
emails.
Basically I want to have the FruityLoops app install his codec, so that
we can compress the samples we provide with it. Benefits for us (of reading wav
over ogg): sample loop points are preserved (in the wave file), & amazingly
usually still work fine. Additionally it's no extra work :)
So I wanted to know if it's fine with him, as his auto-translated
message is a bit unclear.
I always wanted to compress short samples in the past but MP3 was really
poor for that, because of unwanted noise/silence before & after the sample
itself.
Vorbis compresses short & looped samples very well. I read in the
archive someone wondering about the use in games, I must say it's perfect
for games, unlike MP3.
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I'm afraid it's been a while and my memory may be creaky, but I think
the only changes I made to the ACM were fiddling with his Kanji text fields so
it would compile. I didn't actually get into the guts of the code at all.
For some reason I believe I ended up using 'mode 3'.
If you are using this for a specific project with specific apps that you
control, I think you'll be alright. I don't think there is too much
going on with this ACM version so you're probably safe installing it on
user's machines. YMMV -dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Dambrin Didier [mailto:gol@image-line.com]
Sent: Mon 11/11/2002 7:49 AM
To: vorbis-dev@xiph.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: [vorbis-dev] ACM codec
> I successfully contacted him, received source code, and got permission to
post it on my site for a project we did -- www.on2.com/vpvision. Please
feel free to use that code off my site under the license terms, which I
believe were GPL or LGPL.
>
so you use it to encode the sound for a software VCR? cool
> Be warned however that Vorbis+ACM is a nasty combination right now, for
various reasons that Monty can explain if he is so inclined. In a
nutshell,
there isn't a good match between Vorbis in its present state and the
ACM
interface. This project used six different ACM tags, I never got a
clear
understanding of the differences between them.
>
Yes that's my problem too, his doc seems to tell about that, but in
japanese. I already encoded a lot of my samples, I used 'mode 1'
for safety.
What I understood is that only bad uses of the ACM SDK were a problem,
&
indeed, it is a problem for CoolEdit that apparently can't load back
ogg
encoded waves (& can't save them in a proper way, anyway). Works
like a
charm with SoundForge, & the most important for me, FruityLoops
loads them
perfectly.
I also wanted to know how 'strong' the codec was, that is, in
case someone
else changes the specs a little, if it'd conflict with the version
our app
would install, in case it's registered the same way in the system. I
read
that you indeed patched but renamed his original codec - do you think I
should rather use yours? Did you fix some things, or enhance it for your
app's needs maybe?
In fact I also wanted to know if it's fine for him that we
auto-install the
codec ourselves (I guess so). I didn't plan to use his sources,
I'm fine
with the codec installed on the user's system, so that he can use it
as
well.
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well I've had this discussion multiple times with Monty and others, and I am
still of the same opinion: by ignoring WAV and ACM (and by extension AVI format
and VFW interface when Theora is done), we are in fact limiting (or at least
delaying) 4our likely acceptance in the marketplace significantly. Even though
there may need to be some compromises, I think it would be wise to make a
WAV/AVI/ACM/VFW set of components for Vorbis and Theora available. There are
ways to do it that provide at least one-way compatibility -- ie, you could take
your AVI file and convert it to OGG, but not necessarily the other way around.
Failing this, we will need to work much harder to evangelize the OGG format, and
to get the toolmakers to support OGG directly through our library interfaces.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vitaly Nechyos [mailto:nvit@open.by]
Sent: Mon 11/11/2002 9:25 AM
To: vorbis-dev@xiph.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: [vorbis-dev] ACM codec
Good day.
I think a valid wraping Ogg Vorbis format in WAV cover is not reasonable
(even
impossible). Off cause if Ogg Vorbis ACM codec will not require specific
operation with it (but in this case it will not true ACM codec).
The reasons:
- wraping any VBR format in WAV cover is hard in principle (at least
because
of
problems with determining file duration and positioning - try to encode
something
with the Ogg Vorbis ACM codec and open encoded file in WinAmp);
As for particular Ogg Vorbis ACM codec:
- it has manufacturer ID=0 (as i know
there is a problem on NT system if there are several codecs with the
same
manufacturer ID); format tags (WAVEFORMATEX.wFormatTag) for the codec
are
unregistered and there is a probability, that you receive several
formats
with the same
format tags installed.
- you will have the problems with using "user comments";
- you will have the problems with convertings "ogg"
file<->"ogg - wav" file
(it will
be impossible without decoding);
- you do not have all capabilities that Ogg Vorbis library gives (e.g.,
quality
managed encoding);
It seems there is many other reasons.
Vitaly.
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hmm -- you make a good point. However note that Divx is quite popular in spite
of having gone with AVI format, so your logic doesn't hold in that case.
Frankly though I sort of agree, in that Divx would have been even more popular
and cause less headaches with a .DVX extension rather than AVI.
I 100% agree that the form of the codec that should be distributed for playback
is OGG. The reason to support ACM/DSHOW/VFW interfaces is more about getting
inside the popular creation tools -- CD & DVD rippers for the most part, or
tools that capture directly like Virtual Dub. The players (WMP, QT, Real) at
this point can all accept file format plug-ins that would directly parse OGG
files.
On the creation side, we can provide an end-to-end solution for OGG creation
that plugs into popular tools without the support of the toolmakers. For
instance (I'm thinking video here since that's my thing, but it applies
to audio too) -- for VDub, you download a Vorbis ACM, a Theora VFW codec, and a
simple drag&drop utility that converts the resulting AVI file into OGG
format.
The main problem with my suggestion, and the likely reason there is so much
resistance against it, is this: lazy people won't read our instructions;
instead, they'll just make AVI files, send them around, and tell their
friends to download the ACM/VFW components. That would in fact lead to the
problem you pose, which is that the OGG format fails to be marketed as a
distinct file type. Perhaps we can somehow make this scenario unlikely, and
encourage people to use the proper tools, I dunno. Now we're into the
psychology of marketing rather than the capabilities of various API's.
- dbm
-----Original Message-----
From: Dambrin Didier [mailto:gol@image-line.com]
Sent: Mon 11/11/2002 10:34 AM
To: vorbis-dev@xiph.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: [vorbis-dev] ACM codec
I think it's true for every new audio format. I think it's a
little odd to
come up with a new file extension & format, when it can be defined
in one of
the standards. If the ACM is too old & might not be adequate for
everything,
DirectShow surely is (but is also more complex).
Months ago I was looking for a lossless ACM codec, & simply
couldn't find
any. I wondered 'that Monkey audio compressor is great, why
isn't there a
standard codec for it?'. In my opinion, an ACM or DirectShow filter
is
better, but doesn't promote the format at all. Give anyone an ogg or
mp3
encoded wav, he won't know/care what codec has been used, thus
won't really
promote the format. I understand it might be frustrating to develop
something that, by design, is to be invisible.
So, to me, by ignoring ACM, you ARE promoting the format. If MP3 had
came up
(only) as a wave codec, the term wouldn't be so popular. Creating a
new
format promotes the name, supporting existing standards rather spreads
the
technology.
> well I've had this discussion multiple times with Monty and others,
and I
am still of the same opinion: by ignoring WAV and ACM (and by extension
AVI
format and VFW interface when Theora is done), we are in fact limiting
(or
at least delaying) 4our likely acceptance in the marketplace
significantly.
Even though there may need to be some compromises, I think it would be
wise
to make a WAV/AVI/ACM/VFW set of components for Vorbis and Theora
available.
There are ways to do it that provide at least one-way compatibility --
ie,
you could take your AVI file and convert it to OGG, but not necessarily
the
other way around.
>
> Failing this, we will need to work much harder to evangelize the OGG
format, and to get the toolmakers to support OGG directly through our
library interfaces.
>
--- >8 ----
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