I am running version 2.15.2 64 bit version on 64 bit Windows 7. I have a data set with the following structure: Fixed Effect: locationFact Random Effects: datefact, timefact nested in datefact, interactions of datefact and timefact with locationFact I fit the model with the latest version of lme4. The formula is: Thick2 ~ locationFact + (1 | datefact) + (1 | datefact/timefact) + (1 | locationFact:datefact) + (1 | datefact/locationFact:timefact) Other elements of output object are: Linear mixed model fit by REML Random effects: Groups Name Variance Std.Dev. locationFact:timefact:datefact (Intercept) 34.614 5.8833 timefact:datefact (Intercept) 96.795 9.8385 locationFact:datefact (Intercept) 56.375 7.5083 datefact (Intercept) 20.341 4.5101 datefact (Intercept) 20.338 4.5098 datefact (Intercept) 20.340 4.5100 Residual 447.252 21.1483 I tested this model using rmel with another software package and found that the datefact variance is the sum of the 3 datefact variance estimates above. Is there a way to specify the model so I do not get the 3 datefact estimates? The same applies to the datefact BLUPs. I have to add them to get the actual BLUP. Thank you, Roy Robertson
Roy <jroyrobertson <at> comcast.net> writes:> > I am running version 2.15.2 64 bit version on 64 bit Windows 7. I have a > data set with the following structure: > Fixed Effect: locationFact > Random Effects: datefact, timefact nested in datefact, interactions of > datefact and timefact with locationFactI think that corresponds to locationFact + (locationFact|datefact/timefact) (if you want to allow for correlations between the main effect and interaction term of locationFact among datefact levels and among timefact levels) or more likely (assuming the interactions are independent) locationFact + (1|(1+locationFact):(datefact/timefact)) which should be equivalent to locationFact + (1|datefact) + (1|datefact:timefact) + (1|locationFact:datefact)+ (1|locationFact:datefact:timefact)> I fit the model with the latest version of lme4. > > The formula is: Thick2 ~ locationFact + (1 | datefact) + (1 | > datefact/timefact) + (1 | locationFact:datefact) + (1 | > datefact/locationFact:timefact)this expands to locationFact + (1|datefact) + (1|datefact + datefact:timefact) + (1|locationFact:datefact) + (1 + datefact + datefact:locationFact:timefact) You can see that you do indeed have datefact included three times here ...> > Other elements of output object are: > > Linear mixed model fit by REML > > Random effects: > Groups Name Variance Std.Dev. > locationFact:timefact:datefact (Intercept) 34.614 5.8833 > timefact:datefact (Intercept) 96.795 9.8385 > locationFact:datefact (Intercept) 56.375 7.5083 > datefact (Intercept) 20.341 > 4.5101 > datefact (Intercept) 20.338 > 4.5098 > datefact (Intercept) 20.340 > 4.5100 > Residual 447.252 21.1483 > I tested this model using rmel with another software package and found > that the datefact variance is the sum of the 3 datefact variance > estimates above. Is there a way to specify the model so I do not get the > 3 datefact estimates? The same applies to the datefact BLUPs. I have to > add them to get the actual BLUP.One way to explore how this works is to use model.matrix, e.g.> df <- factor(1:2) > lf <- factor(1:2) > tf <- factor(1:2) > colnames(model.matrix(~df/lf:tf))[1] "(Intercept)" "df2" "df1:lf1:tf1" "df2:lf1:tf1" "df1:lf2:tf1" [6] "df2:lf2:tf1" "df1:lf1:tf2" "df2:lf1:tf2" "df1:lf2:tf2" "df2:lf2:tf2"