samba - Jun 2010 - Long delays when launching programs for the first time in my Windows 7 Profile (Samba 3.4.3 as PDC)

Hello dear Samba users!

 

My setup:

================
Server:

- openSUSE 11.2 - 64 bit

- Samba 3.4.3 running as PDC. Roaming profiles active

- DNS Server (bind 9)

- DHCP-Server, which dynamically updates the zone files of the DNS

 

Client:

- Windows 7 Professional - 64 bit, english

 

My problems:

================
1. 

The first time when I login a new user on the client, it takes very long
(about 40 minutes!) until the login process is completed and the new profile
is been created

The next logins everything works perfect.

 

2.

When I am in the user profile and start a new program for the first time, it
takes again VERY long until this program finally launches (approx 5
minutes). Until then the system feels partially locked-up (many programs do
not respond). When the program finally launched, everything works fast again

All later launches of the program are performed with normal speed
(=instantly)

 

Has anybody got any solutions for this problem or any idas? 

If you need further information please do not hesitate to ask!

 

Thanks for your time

 

Tom H. Lautenbacher

Hello dear Samba users!

 

My setup:

================
Server:

- openSUSE 11.2 - 64 bit

- Samba 3.4.3 running as PDC. Roaming profiles active

- DNS Server (bind 9)

- DHCP-Server, which dynamically updates the zone files of the DNS

 

Client:

- Windows 7 Professional - 64 bit, english

 

My problems:

================
1. 

The first time when I login a new user on the client, it takes very long
(about 40 minutes!) until the login process is completed and the new profile
is been created

The next logins everything works perfect.

 

2.

When I am in the user profile and start a new program for the first time, it
takes again VERY long until this program finally launches (approx 5
minutes). Until then the system feels partially locked-up (many programs do
not respond). When the program finally launched, everything works fast again

All later launches of the program are performed with normal speed
(=instantly)

 

Has anybody got any solutions for this problem or any idas? 

If you need further information please do not hesitate to ask!

 

Thanks for your time

 

Tom H. Lautenbacher

I don't know about the program delays, but the long time
delay for the Win7 users sounds like it is copying the profile
from your PDC to the user's workstation the first time.

YES -- win7 is inordinately slow copying profiles.  I've
had it take 45 minutes just to log out.


But it would take a long time the first time while it downloaded
their profile to their workstation.

On subsequent logins, everything is already local, so login should
go much faster.

It's considered a standard 'microsoft' feature and I also
need to solve the similar problem of it taking too long to
synchronize at logoff -- when it tries to synchronize the
server and workstation profiles.

It takes 'forever'....and there's no way for me to know if
it has hung or not -- one time that I let it go, it finished
after 45 minutes of slow (<100K) synchronization activity.

That's about 1/1000th of my network bandwidth!

MS suggest having small profiles and/or preloading
users' profiles on their workstation to minimize the
'first logon' to a domain.

I.e. they suggest making poor use of the domain synchronization
feature!  

If you find a solution, would be interested  in finding out...
My next step is to hit up the windows forums, but I rarely get
answer there from anyone who knows anything, so I dread bothering
to ask.

-linda

I do not think that it is neither intended by MS nor normal to take so long.

I am using roaming profiles in a network with Vista64Business clients.
Although the users (mainly image processing work on a professional level)
tend to have rather huge user profiles (100MB-2 GB is normal, the max what I
had seen was 32GB), those login/logouts are actually speedy compared to the
Win7-64-pro userprofile that I have just freshly created and that is only a
few kilobytes in size.

A second thing is that the problem concerns only the initial creation of the
Win7 profile; it takes approx. 40 minutes). All subsequent logins/logouts
are very fast and take approx. only 10-20 seconds.
The comparison of those values shows that it is more but just an delay
because of the creation of some kilobytes of files.

The third thing is that I am having the same problem with programs that I
start. Programs that are installed locally on the client! When I am starting
them for the first time, I am having a delay of 5-10 Minutes until the
program starts. The subsequent times I start the program, it starts
instantly.

I am guessing that the problem has something to do with DNS or other
network-layer issues. Or maybe it is the Client searching for something on
the Samba server that is not existing?? It seems like the workstation Is
sending some query to samba and then waits ages for a timeout or something.
There is almost no network traffic the time that I am waiting....


Tom

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Tom H. Lautenbacher
<mailinglists at lautenbacher.biz> wrote:
> I do not think that it is neither intended by MS nor normal to take so
long.
>
> I am using roaming profiles in a network with Vista64Business clients.
> Although the users (mainly image processing work on a professional level)
> tend to have rather huge user profiles (100MB-2 GB is normal, the max what
I
> had seen was 32GB), those login/logouts are actually speedy compared to the
> Win7-64-pro userprofile that I have just freshly created and that is only a
> few kilobytes in size.
>
> A second thing is that the problem concerns only the initial creation of
the
> Win7 profile; it takes approx. 40 minutes). All subsequent logins/logouts
> are very fast and take approx. only 10-20 seconds.
> The comparison of those values shows that it is more but just an delay
> because of the creation of some kilobytes of files.
>
> The third thing is that I am having the same problem with programs that I
> start. Programs that are installed locally on the client! When I am
starting
> them for the first time, I am having a delay of 5-10 Minutes until the
> program starts. The subsequent times I start the program, it starts
> instantly.
>
> I am guessing that the problem has something to do with DNS or other
> network-layer issues. Or maybe it is the Client searching for something on
> the Samba server that is not existing?? It seems like the workstation Is
> sending some query to samba and then waits ages for a timeout or something.
> There is almost no network traffic the time that I am waiting....
with xp/2003 you could turn on the userenv.log, but apparently this
does not work with windows 7
(http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/winserverGP/thread/a9b36648-aa9f-4ff7-b23f-c1123b7984e9);
so check the event log of the client and/or use process monitor from
sysinternals to get a log of what is going on it. See this
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2010/01/13/3305263.aspx
for inspiration.

good luck!

--
natxo

Ok I think it helps if I summarize my problem:

Client: Windows 7 Professional, 64bit, English
Server: openSUSE 11.2, running Samba 3.4.3 as a PDC

Login as Local user:
====================First time login: Profile is being created very fast
Further logins: Profile is being loaded very fast
First time launch of software: Instant startup of software
Further launches of software: Instant startup of software

Login as domain user:
====================First time login: Profile creation takes AGES (30-50
minutes)
Further logins: Profile is being loaded very fast (10-20 seconds)
First time launch of locally installed software: Startup of software takes
ages (approx 3-6 minutes)
Further launches of locally installed software: Instant startup of software

> I'd ask on one of the windows groups -- maybe some MVP would know.
Ok!
> that or try tracing the actions with the 'sysinternal' tools
> (at the ms website now)...you can use 'process monitor' to
> see what a process is doing -- shows you network registry and file
> accesses -- and its free.
> 
> Their creator works for MS now ...type in sysinternals.com -- it
> redirects to the microsoft website now.
Thank you I will check that out!
> I doubt it's samba -- since no one else is seeing that symptom...
I think it is, since I am having this effect only when using my roaming
profile!
But I think that the group of users using the following combination:
"Samba 3.4.3 & Windows 7-64bit & Samba as a PDC & roaming
profiles & using
this mailing list & being able to report the problem"
is very limited until today..
 
> maybe some antivirus interaction?
Will check with sysinternals but assume no, because oft he
locally-is-everything-fine thing.
> the login/logouts -- read about them on MS's website...look up
> under profile loading ... it talks about how multi-gig profiles
> will really slow down first time loading.
As I wrote, I am having the problem with FRESH CREATED profiles, which are
just a few kilobytes of size!
> If you think it is a network problem,
> use "wireshark" -- it will let you observe the network traffic.
> 
> (google it) it's also free.
Thank you Linda.
> You need to become familiar with all these diagnotic tools
> (that and get yourself a "procmail" email filter so you  can
filter
> out all the garbage from all the email groups you have to subscribe
> to to just keep things working!)...
Do you know a good windows-alternative to procmail? Isn't the new outlook
2010 able to group emails into threads?
> > Seriously -- I have nearly 80 email groups I sub to...if I didn't
filter
> I'd just 'lose it'...but they all go into folders and I read
them when
> I want...if I don't, I have them setup to automatically expire after
> a few months...  it's just like a forum, but better....since it's
> all in one place!  :-)
Well I am attending to about 20 forums and I am having everything in one
place too: My email-mailbox as soon as I am getting an answer to my postings
:-) But not 10000 other emails that need further processing ;-)
> Good luck...!  Lemmy know if I can point you at any
> tools -- look for open source ones (or MS supported ones)...
> 
> that way you have less to worry about in the way of viruses!  :-)
Ok, thank you!

Cheers,
Tom

Ok I think it helps if I summarize my problem:

Client: Windows 7 Professional, 64bit, English
Server: openSUSE 11.2, running Samba 3.4.3 as a PDC

Login as Local user:
====================First time login: Profile is being created very fast
Further logins: Profile is being loaded very fast
First time launch of software: Instant startup of software
Further launches of software: Instant startup of software

Login as domain user:
====================First time login: Profile creation takes AGES (30-50
minutes)
Further logins: Profile is being loaded very fast (10-20 seconds)
First time launch of locally installed software: Startup of software takes
ages (approx 3-6 minutes)
Further launches of locally installed software: Instant startup of software

> I'd ask on one of the windows groups -- maybe some MVP would know.
Ok!
> that or try tracing the actions with the 'sysinternal' tools
> (at the ms website now)...you can use 'process monitor' to
> see what a process is doing -- shows you network registry and file
> accesses -- and its free.
> 
> Their creator works for MS now ...type in sysinternals.com -- it
> redirects to the microsoft website now.
Thank you I will check that out!
> I doubt it's samba -- since no one else is seeing that symptom...
I think it is, since I am having this effect only when using my roaming
profile!
But I think that the group of users using the following combination:
"Samba 3.4.3 & Windows 7-64bit & Samba as a PDC & roaming
profiles & using
this mailing list & being able to report the problem"
is very limited until today..
 
> maybe some antivirus interaction?
Will check with sysinternals but assume no, because oft he
locally-is-everything-fine thing.
> the login/logouts -- read about them on MS's website...look up
> under profile loading ... it talks about how multi-gig profiles
> will really slow down first time loading.
As I wrote, I am having the problem with FRESH CREATED profiles, which are
just a few kilobytes of size!
> If you think it is a network problem,
> use "wireshark" -- it will let you observe the network traffic.
> 
> (google it) it's also free.
Thank you Linda.
> You need to become familiar with all these diagnotic tools
> (that and get yourself a "procmail" email filter so you  can
filter
> out all the garbage from all the email groups you have to subscribe
> to to just keep things working!)...
Do you know a good windows-alternative to procmail? Isn't the new outlook
2010 able to group emails into threads?
> > Seriously -- I have nearly 80 email groups I sub to...if I didn't
filter
> I'd just 'lose it'...but they all go into folders and I read
them when
> I want...if I don't, I have them setup to automatically expire after
> a few months...  it's just like a forum, but better....since it's
> all in one place!  :-)
Well I am attending to about 20 forums and I am having everything in one
place too: My email-mailbox as soon as I am getting an answer to my postings
:-) But not 10000 other emails that need further processing ;-)
> Good luck...!  Lemmy know if I can point you at any
> tools -- look for open source ones (or MS supported ones)...
> 
> that way you have less to worry about in the way of viruses!  :-)
Ok, thank you!

Cheers,
Tom

> But I think that the group of users using the following combination:
> "Samba 3.4.3 & Windows 7-64bit & Samba as a PDC & roaming
profiles & using
> this mailing list & being able to report the problem"
> is very limited until today..
>
I am using roaming profiles with windows 7 64 and samba PDC / BDCs. I
am not using 3.4.3 however. Currently we are running 3.5.4. I did have
3.4.6 for a few weeks just after the upgrade from 3.0.37 to support
windows 7. I do not have the 40 minute initial logins. However it does
take me 5 minutes to login and logout on a 100% gigabit network every
single time not just the first time. At some point I will look into
folder redirection on top of the trimming of the profiles that I have
begun..

John

Hello John,
 
> I am using roaming profiles with windows 7 64 and samba PDC / BDCs. I
> am not using 3.4.3 however. Currently we are running 3.5.4. I did have
> 3.4.6 for a few weeks just after the upgrade from 3.0.37 to support
> windows 7. I do not have the 40 minute initial logins. However it does
> take me 5 minutes to login and logout on a 100% gigabit network every
> single time not just the first time. At some point I will look into
> folder redirection on top of the trimming of the profiles that I have
> begun..
To me this sounds like a "normal case" of overcrowded user profiles.

What I could witness in one of my networks (Samba 3 + Vista64Business) is
that the userprofiles grew very huge even thoug literally ANY userspace data
is being saved to those profiles.

What I mean is:
ALL data that the people at the workstations process is mounted on
samba-shares on the server (which I connect via script as network drives to
their profiles).

But jet again the user profiles grew tremendously, reaching up to 32GB in
one case, what resulted in >1h logon/logoff times.

In my case the error was one of the programs that they used: Adobe Bridge.
This program generates tons of cache data, which - senseless! - is being
saved into the C:\Users\<Username>\appdata\roaming folder, instead of the
C:\Users\<Username>\appdata\local folder.
Another such program is Adobe Lightroom which generates huge thumbnail
databases.

Etc.
What I want to say is: Have a look into the profiles and analyze what the
source for growing profiles is, if you have placed normal userspace data
already into normal shares so that they move out of the profile.

All the best
tom

here is my 5 pence, of a POSSIBLE cause...

if you have a large network Winbind enumuration can take a loong time,
that is if it is used in this instance...

R.

Mark



--- On Wed, 30/6/10, John Drescher <drescherjm at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: John Drescher <drescherjm at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Samba] Long delays when launching programs for the first time
in my Windows 7 Profile (Samba 3.4.3 as PDC)
> To: "Tom H. Lautenbacher" <mailinglists at
lautenbacher.biz>
> Cc: samba at lists.samba.org
> Date: Wednesday, 30 June, 2010, 23:32
> > But I think that the group of
> users using the following combination:
> > "Samba 3.4.3 & Windows 7-64bit & Samba as a
> PDC & roaming profiles & using
> > this mailing list & being able to report the
> problem"
> > is very limited until today..
> >
> 
> I am using roaming profiles with windows 7 64 and samba PDC
> / BDCs. I
> am not using 3.4.3 however. Currently we are running 3.5.4.
> I did have
> 3.4.6 for a few weeks just after the upgrade from 3.0.37 to
> support
> windows 7. I do not have the 40 minute initial logins.
> However it does
> take me 5 minutes to login and logout on a 100% gigabit
> network every
> single time not just the first time. At some point I will
> look into
> folder redirection on top of the trimming of the profiles
> that I have
> begun..
> 
> John
> -- 
> To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and
> read the
> instructions:? https://lists.samba.org/mailman/options/samba
>

I have seen this behaviour with overcrowded profiles, too.In my cases I have
identified huge iTunes backups and (old) installations of Google Chrome as the
source for very huge profiles.

Johannes

Am 30.06.2010 23:11, schrieb Tom H. Lautenbacher:
> Hello John,
>
> To me this sounds like a "normal case" of overcrowded user
profiles.
>