Hi, this is my first time posting and it is about something very specific. I understand that WINE is for running windows apps under Linux, or flavors thereof, and have come across a problem with printing in Ubuntu. My mother is in the UK and had to wipe Windows due to a Virus. I recommended that she install Ubuntu 9.10 (big mistake, as it took over 2-3 weeks to get it working with MP3 players, DVD players, email, etc seeing as we are both newbies at Linux). We have got most of what she wants to work. Apart from getting her printer to work which is a Canon MP 130. After trying various time gobbling procedures, none of which worked, I have come up with the solution of installing WINE, installing her printer drivers through WINE, and then printing out what she needs to print out while in WINE (after converting the doc/item into a PDF via Cups-pdf printer - which we got working correctly after two days). Any thoughts on this? She and I are both very upset by this switch to Ubuntu (because we didn't know it would be such a horrible and stressful experience), but since we are nearly there we have decided to get this last item dealt with (the printing). Any help would be very much appreciated.
http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Canon-PIXMA_MP130 The bible for printing is Linuxprinting.org. Windows drivers inside wine don't work that dependable. People forget how important it is for hardware to match OS. I have junked tons of working hardware because it would not work with the windows any more. Some distributions are simpler than others.
Danila Sentiabov
2010-Feb-13 09:12 UTC
[Wine] Need some feedback on this Printing Solution
Canon MP130 should work with native linux drivers. There are some generic instructions here and there. Like this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=345061 Or this: http://onlyubuntu.blogspot.com/2008/04/howto-install-your-canon-pixma-mp130.html You don't need to use Wine for this. Generally, it's recommended to have some advanced Linux user nearby to consult and help on switching from Windows. I've been through this myself (like 1000s of users before and after me) - no matter how advanced were your Windows skills - these are useless in Linux and feeling like helpless baby is upsetting indeed :-) It took me about 4-6 months to start feeling comfortable in Linux, but now I wouldn't switch back to Windows even for $1,000 reward. However, I'd switch for $100,000+! Not sure about $10,000 :-D -- Best regards, Danila Sentiabov aka dsent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-users/attachments/20100213/e42a6a17/attachment.htm>
perryh at pluto.rain.com
2010-Feb-13 09:43 UTC
[Wine] Need some feedback on this Printing Solution
"judgedredd" <wineforum-user at winehq.org> wrote:> My mother is in the UK and had to wipe Windows due to a Virus. > I recommended that she install Ubuntu 9.10 ... > > We have got most of what she wants to work. Apart from getting > her printer to work which is a Canon MP 130. > > After trying various time gobbling procedures, none of which > worked, I have come up with the solution of installing WINE, > installing her printer drivers through WINE, and then printing out > what she needs to print out while in WINE (after converting the > doc/item into a PDF via Cups-pdf printer - which we got working > correctly after two days). > > Any thoughts on this?Yes, and it's not what you wanted to hear. For the most part, Wine doesn't handle Windows hardware drivers. If it's a USB printer there are some hacks that _might_ get it to work, but it would not be an easy job and you might well not get anything out of the effort other than more frustration. The usual recommendation is exactly the reverse of what you're attempting: if needing to print from Wine, first get the printer working in Linux (using CUPS) and have Wine print through CUPS. In your situation, I would first check the Ubuntu forums and see if anyone there knows how to get this printer working under Linux directly. If not, she may be better off to reinstall Windows.
Danila Sentiabov Please do me a favor don't paste ubuntu forum and blog site garbage links here. http://mambo.kuhp.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~takushi/ Was the direct link if you wanted to give the instructions to set it up. I pointed to http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Canon-PIXMA_MP130 because if any new solutions for that printer is found it will also become listed there. Big disadvantage of using what I call Ubuntu garbage links is they are not maintained by the person doing the work. So they end up out of date and useless. Also garbage links don't include email address or forums to contact in the case the instructions don't work. People who create garbage links of information only want to make themselves seams important and don't deserve any attention.
Yet the links you give are basically just reprints of the same information. http://mambo.kuhp.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~takushi/ The author site compare to this >> http://onlyubuntu.blogspot.com/2008/04/howto-install-your-canon-pixma-mp130.html This is a pure copy of the instructions at the author right up to using the web interface. Notice no link if these instruction don't work refer here something might have altered. So is pure junk and in future could leave users stuck. Duplication was not required. A little general guide to read takushi style instructions and use them would have been more productive covering more printers in one hit. Ie for takushi instructions sudo before apt-get and so on. "System > Administration > Printing, Add Printer, Select from List" Is the old instructions by takushi by the way. The current one is go to the cups web interface itself. There is a reason. The graphical front end happens not to work dependably. So the other instructions in the forum are out of date junk as well. Danila Sentiabov the information you provide is either clone data or out of date garbage. Here is the funny part of all this there was never any reason to go to the command line. Adding a repository can be done graphical. Updating repository can be done graphical. Package installs can be done graphical. Yet not one of those links you provided was about doing it a more newbie friendly way. Instead clone rewrite a few words. Don't provide reference link. So take full credit for solution. Basically I am purely sick lot of the Ubuntu people behavior. Don't presume I have not investaged those links I have. Danila Sentiabov They are garbage because in my eyes they are nothing more than plagiarism. Taken credit for other peoples work. Danila Sentiabov Can you truthfully give my any good reason for not include a link to takuski site saying that the information in post is taken from there and rewritten in simpler form? Ie given credit and direction to source. At least that way if something changes person reading you instructions know where the source was from and stands a changes of solving problem. Any people not prepared to give credit where credit is due produce what I class as garbage. Items that will see people screwed. Now if you had given a blog post or a forum post that correctly provided link to source of their information I would not have ripped into you Danila Sentiabov. Ubuntu people need to lift their game on giving credit.
Boy, there is a lot here. Seems to have opened up a can of worms, which seems not to be unusual with Linux/Ubuntu/other distros. I will address all posts here and give specific replies where needed. Oiaohm, I went to linuxprinting.org which is where I have been before and found it next to useless as the site has a coding bug in it where it causes the page to hang or not reload when choosing the type of printers (I have found these sorts of errors part and parcel of what I call the Linux mentality) and then models. I tried using four different browsers and just gave up to go back another day. I eventually did find that the MP130 is not listed but remembered that the iP1500 drivers should allow the MP130 to work. I found these drivers but then found the instructions too time consuming to figure out (yes, another one of those Linux/Ubuntu/other distro issues) But thanks for the time you took to post. I also see that later you had a go at Danila for posting garbage links (rightly so). Well, anyone who posts so-called 'solutions' without stating which version the post is for should be ripped the way you did with Danila. Why? The post that Danila gave deals with getting iP1500 drivers to work with Ubuntu version 6.06 LTS. Now, how many of you have realised that when Ubuntu (or any other distro) gets updated things 'break' because the [bleep]ing programmers change how things get updated/installed/used/viewed/configured etc? With a lot of these 'solutions' they are version specific and DO NOT work with other versions (like with 9.10). So a WHOLE afternoon wasted trying to implement this 'fix'. Yes, garbage links indeed (which is another Linux issue). Danila, See the post above and below. And I really hate it when 'solutions' are given that don't actually work. I have wasted nearly a month of my time, multiplied by the amount of stress involved on top of that in dealing with time-sensitive issues in my life. As to your comment about not going back to Windows. I would go back to XP (not Vista or Windows 7) in a heartbeat, if not for the fact that there is only one more thing to configure (the printer). Otherwise I would have got my mum to get an Apple or reinstall Windows. Why? Because these OSes BLOODY WORK!!!!! Linux is NEVER going to replace these two in a million years. Period. There are 2 hours worth of reasons I could list right off the top of my head. Bottom line? Anyone who is involved in the creation of Linux distros has no clue to what the customer (the 90% that just want a computer to work out of the box) wants, only what they think the customer wants. Jobs and Gates knew right from the get go and built empires on that knowledge with inferior products (although Apple has moved way ahead in my humble opinion). Perryh thanks for your post, it told me that what I am trying to do is probably impossible (but I know that anything is possible in the computing world if anyone put his/her mind to it - like making OSes work with only 4MB of memory!) with the way things are set up at the moment. Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that the ONLY reason I got my mum to install WINE in the first place was to try to get around the lack of Linux printer drivers specific to the Canon MP130, thinking that WINE could allow the use of the Windows software printer drivers to make the printer work on this Linux machine (which is impossible to do under native Linux/Ubuntu without installing DIFFERENT drivers which only get the printer to work but not the scanner). SO more time wasted to get a really simple thing done (and it really is simple - programmers/dumbass corporations are what make it difficult or next to impossible). Martin, you seem to have missed the whole point of why I tried to get my mum to install Wine. I hope that you understand now. Mind you, your tips about setting the parameters was very welcome and valuable. Thank you. David, asking for help is [bleep]ing time consuming. I don't have the time to spend on doing endless posts. I thought that installing Linux/Ubuntu would save me from having to talk to my mum nearly every week about one problem or another that she was having with Windows. If I had known what I know now, I would have NEVER gone the route of installing Ubuntu. That is for the ones who are masochisitc/insane (unless you have years to play around with it without it being your main PC). This just about covers all the posts. Personally I think that Linux/Ubuntu sucks big time and I hate it with a passion, not because of the OS itself but with the way that people have tried to create OSes from Linus' (Torvalds) work. The BIG mistake that everyone has made is to expect regular users to install just about EVERYTHING to do with media by themselves, as well as expecting that printers will work, and that users will be able to use the Terminal Window (when I say users I do NOT mean the geeks/nerds/programmers/computer scientist/ etc who's role - it seems - is to make it difficult for the rest of us to enjoy what potentially was a great OS). There is one valubale thing I learnt from trying to install 4 different flavors of Linux on my machine back in 1999 (and after 1 week of trying it never worked properly on my computer). Partitioning my hard drive. Since I observed all the distros doing this I did it with my Windows box and subsequently all my laptops (into these partitions: Windows, Programs, Temp, Swap, MyDocuments, Spare1, Spare2) and have NEVER had a problem with any Windows install since (unless a virus/trojan screwed things up). The Linux mentality can be observed at work in the way the official Ubuntu forum is set up. I have to google a query dealing with Ubuntu to get an Ubuntu specific post. Using the actual forum search facility is a nightmare and causes error pages to come up 95% of the time (saying I have put in a search term incorrectly or done something else wrong). That is how screwed up these guys are in their thinking. Taking something elegant and simple (Linux) and making it impossible to understand and use for the majority of us that would have liked to get away from the scam (bloatware, endless upgraded, etc) of Windows.
Wrong about super user access Danila Sentiabov. Never super user access has never been required to run printer drivers. Basically you are a idiot to comment on printer drivers. Windows printer drivers run in user space as the spool user. Ie less rights than administrator same rights as selinux secured cups grants its spool processes by the way. As well wine can run some old windows 3.11 print drivers and link those back to cups. Perfectly reliable as well. Twain in wine also does not support drivers since it forwards onto sane for processing. Basically of someone spent enough time making the frameworks both Twain and Printers could be done inside wine. Remember Twain drivers run is the user. If someone wants to pick up the source code to running printers more modern windows printer drivers with wine parts. All you need to find is the project called ddiwrapper. It was started by novell before they made the deal with MS. The project stopped as soon as the deal was signed. The biggest headache is that some windows print drives expect to be able to write straight to screen. Nothing that cannot be solved one way or another. http://www.zedonet.com/en_p_turboprint_driver.phtml?printer=Canon_PIXMA_MP130 I had forgot about turboprint. Printing not scanning. Device is always going to be only partly functional for a long time to come. Sometimes it just better to accept it and move on. Also by the way TWAIN 2.1 drivers use the same source code for Linux Windows and Mac. TWAIN is a platform neutral interface. So not providing drivers for other platforms is just unwilling to build them for other platforms. By the way the policy I quoted on drivers and Apple. Is Apples there policy Danila Sentiabov. I have worked in a Apple store. That is the rule. You bought a apple by apple compatible hardware it avoids a whole stack of hassles. Its not like the mp130 is a great printer. One day it will bleed all the ink it used cleaning heads all over where it is sitting. Lure some local nerd with beer are you nuts. Last thing you want is a slightly drunk person near a computer. Food far safer bribe.
oiaohm wrote:> Wrong about super user access Danila Sentiabov. Never super user access has never been required to run printer drivers. > > Basically you are a idiot to comment on printer drivers. Windows printer drivers run in user space as the spool user. Ie less rights than administrator same rights as selinux secured cups grants its spool processes by the way. >Source for your information on this? I know that printer drivers require Administrator level privileges to install and make any required registry changes. Those changes have to be user readable or they do not work. As to the requirements to install printer drivers and operate in Windows/Linux/MacOSX. They run at RING 0 level, kernel. Not at Ring 2/3 (user). Thus installing Windows only printers will NEVER happen in Wine, as Wine strictly runs at ring 2/3. Thus you have to get a Linux driver in order to run in Wine. James McKenzie
Gert van den Berg
2010-Feb-15 15:43 UTC
[Wine] Need some feedback on this Printing Solution
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 17:23, James McKenzie wrote:> Source for your information on this? I know that printer drivers > require Administrator level privileges to install and make any required > registry changes. Those changes have to be user readable or they do not > work. >Non-admin users can install printer drivers (for network printers at least) and kernel-space drivers can be disabled from group policy.... (On the network printers: Windows seem to basically share the port, with the client running the driver. (This has the disadvantage that you need a driver for every OS that cleints might be running...) With CUPS, the server runs the driver and shares some standard interface...)> As to the requirements to install printer drivers and operate in > Windows/Linux/MacOSX. They run at RING 0 level, kernel. Not at Ring > 2/3 (user). Thus installing Windows only printers will NEVER happen in > Wine, as Wine strictly runs at ring 2/3. Thus you have to get a Linux > driver in order to run in Wine. >Pre-Windows 2000, yes.... http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc758604%28WS.10%29.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791648.aspx have some more information.... Gert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-users/attachments/20100215/1cc78aa8/attachment.htm>
Gert van den Berg
2010-Feb-15 15:46 UTC
[Wine] Fwd: Need some feedback on this Printing Solution
Correct from address ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gert van den Berg On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 17:23, James McKenzie wrote:> Source for your information on this? I know that printer drivers > require Administrator level privileges to install and make any required > registry changes. Those changes have to be user readable or they do not > work. >Non-admin users can install printer drivers (for network printers at least) and kernel-space drivers can be disabled from group policy.... (On the network printers: Windows seem to basically share the port, with the client running the driver. (This has the disadvantage that you need a driver for every OS that cleints might be running...) With CUPS, the server runs the driver and shares some standard interface...)> As to the requirements to install printer drivers and operate in > Windows/Linux/MacOSX. They run at RING 0 level, kernel. Not at Ring > 2/3 (user). Thus installing Windows only printers will NEVER happen in > Wine, as Wine strictly runs at ring 2/3. Thus you have to get a Linux > driver in order to run in Wine. >Pre-Windows 2000, yes.... http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc758604%28WS.10%29.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791648.aspx have some more information.... Gert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-users/attachments/20100215/7994110a/attachment.htm>
Well, seems I get good posts from oiaohm. Thanks. Now how do I install these Suse pro 9.1 drivers into Ubuntu? Anyone?
I found this page: http://techieturmoil.co.uk/category/techie-notes/ But the chap is a bit vague on installing. My comments in red. "I?ve included all three Canon packages and mine in the compressed archive. Just extract it to a new folder and install all the packages. Either click on them in your file manager to install with your packaging tool - clicking on the following files will automatically bring up the packaging tool? If so what do you do then?, in which case install them in the order: bjfilter-common, bjfilter-pxmaip1500, bjfilter-pcmaip1500-lprng, canon-ip1500; or on the command line, cd to the folder and type dpkg -i *.deb - type dpkg -i [full name of file(s)].deb i.e. dpkg -i bjfilter-common.deb ? . Then plug in your printer. You will then need to add it manually via the printer configuration tool.
It is your companies policies. James. A particular flag is not on your user that allows driver installation. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/297780/en-us Load/Unload Device Drivers right is required to load userspace or kernel space drivers. You don't need to be admin to use this right just has to be on your user. Simple point here Vista will not install printer drivers that are kernel space by default because it will not install non certified drivers by default. Even better OS provides those drivers with port access to talk to there printer. Any driver printer driver that says Microsoft Certified XP or latter has a requirement for Certification is the use of no ring 0 parts. Since MS classes this as unnecessary secuirty risk to give a print que access to ring 0. There is no ring 0 drivers parts for printers to work on Vista + since the spool userspace drivers cannot connect access kernel space drivers at all only access they have is the virtual port that has been provided to them guess what virtual ports are user space as well. This is how MS wants it. Printer drivers don't need parts in kernel space. Again this is windows internal permissions. http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/b/9/5b97017b-e28a-4bae-ba48-174cf47d23cd/DEV095_WH06.ppt From 2006 is also a good read. There are a lot of device drivers for windows now that are UMDF. IE userspace. Even better most maker port drivers for printers are UMDF. So not a kernel mode driver either. This is you complete problem you presume Admin rights to load drivers ment they were ring 0. Sorry printer drivers are not. The port mapping for printer drivers to connect to is userspace as well. Basically you have a very big myth James McKenzie. Of course to provide DDI and UMDF frameworks inside wine would be a lot of work. DDI can work with raw network provided ports. DDI is the printer drivers. UMDF is basically used to find printer locally if it does not show up as a normal port by some brand printers ie virtual ports. Virtual ports cannot be done in kernel space. UMDF usb access information is basically the same as what you can get by libusb under linux. Also you don't listen James McKenzie. Wine already runs some Kernel Mode drivers of Windows in userspace. Ie some safedisk drivers. If the driver does not do any operations particular to ring 0 it can be run in usermode. Just because windows runs something in ring 0 does not mean we have to.