I have several Linux machines some running on really old hardware and some on brand new, some run old distros (RedHat 6) and some new (FC3 or CentOS). All of them experienced power failure more then once, none of them has failed to load after a reboot. BUT, Asterisk is running your PBX. Your PBX isn't your proxy server, it isn't your web server, mail server, firewall, or whatever you're used to run on linux. Even though it would seem that down time on all of these production machines is bad, these are all systems that have no counter part in the legacy world, and that we all agree may have some downtime along the road. On the other hand, telephony down time is unacceptable. PBXs have a counter part. Plain old PBXs are expected to run 24x7. real 24x7, with uptimes of 99.999. And if you think about it, they actually do. So people will expect your asterisk installation to do the same. Besides, when a mail server goes down for ten minutes, when it comes back up you still get your mail. This is not true for your PBX. Our asterisk installation has software RAID, has a UPS, has recover CDs burnt and ready to be used (http://www.builderau.com.au/architect/sdi/0,39024602,20269582,00.htm) And still, my knees are shaking. In short, GET 100$ and BUY A UPS. It's worth it. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Bachmann [mailto:asterisk@not-real.org] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:30 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] UPS for Asterisk Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:> On January 23, 2005 04:04 pm, Mike Sander wrote: > > > Is the harddisk activity on a standard asterisk install such that I > > don't really have to worry if the power cuts?? > > Not typically; there isn't much writing going on, this is true. Are > you that cash strapped that a $75 UPS with a serial port is out of > your budget?No kidding... the cost of a server than won't come up again is much more substantial than the countermeasure... the $75 (you can get a 350 Va for $45 even!) and a slightly less energy efficient system. If you can afford to spend more, a decent active UPS would keep your power conditioned as well...> > As I understand, if HD activity is minimal, the probability of HD > > failure is significantly reduced. > > > HDDs don't fail because they lose power.Unless the heads crash, which can happen if power fails. I know HDD manufacturers have done "head unloading" and such recently, but the risk is still higher if power is suddenly lost during a write. Nick _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Shoval Tomer [mailto:shoval@softov.co.il]> On the other hand, telephony down time is unacceptable. PBXs have a > counter part. Plain old PBXs are expected to run 24x7. real 24x7, with > uptimes of 99.999. And if you think about it, they actually do.That would be news to the people who installed our (non-Asterisk) PBX. It has no battery backup at all. When the power goes out, so do all our phones. (Except for the fax machines, which don't go through the PBX.)
> -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Radon [mailto:jonr800@gmail.com]> Why risk it? Just go snag a cheap UPS from your local store. Just > get something with enough run time to shut the system down gracefully.Don't go *too* cheap, though. I had a couple of really cheap (under $40) CyberPower UPS's that ended up causing more outages than they protected against. I've had good luck with APC, but keep in mind that the batteries have a finite lifespan. On SmartUPS and BackUPS Pro models, you'll get a warning that the battery needs replacing, but on regular BackUPS models the first hint you get that the battery is bad is when the power goes out and the UPS doesn't work. This is sometimes okay for workstation use, but I'd hesitate to put one of those on a server. I find that the batteries in our APC UPS's generally last four to five years for stand-alone units, three years for rack-mount ones.
Having worked in the telephone equipment business for years, I've found that there are those customers who want the cheapest possible solution -- a refurbished PBX running on the same circuit breaker that the rest of the stuff in the janitor's closet does. And there are those customers who see that the real cost savings is in having a reliable phone system. Those customers put the PBX into as controlled an environment as possible. At a bare minimum, they purchase a good-quality UPS; preferred would be an environment that would support a finicky main frame computer -- air conditioning, humidity control, etc. Businesses get what they pay for. But, if they use Asterisk, they can take the savings they have realized over buying a traditional PBX, buy a decent UPS, and still have a chunk of change left over. ________________________________ From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com on behalf of David Brodbeck Sent: Mon 1/24/2005 9:49 AM To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] UPS for Asterisk> -----Original Message----- > From: Shoval Tomer [mailto:shoval@softov.co.il]> On the other hand, telephony down time is unacceptable. PBXs have a > counter part. Plain old PBXs are expected to run 24x7. real 24x7, with > uptimes of 99.999. And if you think about it, they actually do.That would be news to the people who installed our (non-Asterisk) PBX. It has no battery backup at all. When the power goes out, so do all our phones. (Except for the fax machines, which don't go through the PBX.) _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/attachments/20050124/0799db62/attachment.bin
> -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Radon [mailto:jonr800@gmail.com]> I've had good luck with CyberPower, what was your issue?I had two of them. The first one, after about a year, would just randomly switch off or glitch, causing the computer connected to it to reboot. The second one lasted two or three years, then suddenly started acting like the incoming power was off, even when it wasn't. It did this briefly, intermittently for a couple of months, and then the condition became permanent and it would no longer switch to the AC line or charge its batteries. I gave up on the brand at that point, figuring an unreliable UPS was even worse than none at all.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Svensson [mailto:psvasterisk@psv.nu]> The SmartUPS ups's from APC that are >= 1kVA seem to be of a > lot better > quality then their smaller siblings. We have lost none of the 1kVA or > larger ups:es while several of the smaller ones have died of > electronics > failures. The larger ups's seem to have 5-year batteries > while the smaller > ones have 3-year batteries.Just a counterexample -- the batteries in our 3 kW rack-mount SmartUPS only lasted three years before one of them failed. They were a real pain to get out, too -- the failed battery had swelled up and wedged itself in the battery compartment. The rack-mount UPS runs around 120 degrees F inside and that seems to shorten the battery life.
That's not a problem. The question is what happens when the power's restored. Can you go ahead and just start working or do you need to call the technicians to come reconfigure the whole thing? If it just works, you have something asterisk without UPS can't give you. -----Original Message----- From: David Brodbeck [mailto:DavidB@mail.interclean.com] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:50 PM To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] UPS for Asterisk> -----Original Message----- > From: Shoval Tomer [mailto:shoval@softov.co.il]> On the other hand, telephony down time is unacceptable. PBXs have a > counter part. Plain old PBXs are expected to run 24x7. real 24x7, with > uptimes of 99.999. And if you think about it, they actually do.That would be news to the people who installed our (non-Asterisk) PBX. It has no battery backup at all. When the power goes out, so do all our phones. (Except for the fax machines, which don't go through the PBX.) _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Shoval Tomer [mailto:shoval@softov.co.il]> That's not a problem. > The question is what happens when the power's restored. > > Can you go ahead and just start working or do you need to call the > technicians to come reconfigure the whole thing?It comes back up on its own, of course.> If it just works, you have something asterisk without UPS can't give > you.Really? Surely Asterisk can be configured to start itself up when the system boots.
Asterisk is software installed on linux installed in a PC with a hard drive. When I say it might not come up after a power failure I don't mean Asterisk, I mean Linux. The hard drive might fail and you can kiss you system good bye. Legacy PBXs don't have that problem. The configuration there is on NVRAM or Flash, and when the power comes back up it just loads and keeps working. A UPS for legacy PBX means that if the power outage is two minutes long, you can keep talking as if nothing happened. For Asterisk it's a must. -----Original Message----- From: David Brodbeck [mailto:DavidB@mail.interclean.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:55 PM To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] UPS for Asterisk> -----Original Message----- > From: Shoval Tomer [mailto:shoval@softov.co.il]> That's not a problem. > The question is what happens when the power's restored. > > Can you go ahead and just start working or do you need to call the > technicians to come reconfigure the whole thing?It comes back up on its own, of course.> If it just works, you have something asterisk without UPS can't give > you.Really? Surely Asterisk can be configured to start itself up when the system boots. _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support.
OK. You're wearing me out. IF linux boots Asterisk can surely load automatically. What if linux DOES NOT boot after a power failure? -----Original Message----- From: Brian Capouch [mailto:brianc@palaver.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:52 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] UPS for Asterisk David Brodbeck wrote:> > > It comes back up on its own, of course. > > >>If it just works, you have something asterisk without UPS can't give >>you. > > > Really? Surely Asterisk can be configured to start itself up when the > system boots.Absolutely. Where did the notion ever come from that it could not? B. _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Michael 'Moose' Dinn [mailto:dinn@blend.twistedpair.ca]> You should be able to boot Asterisk using slackware as a base > from a 64M CF > card or even from a 64M bootable USB memory key. If you use > ReiserFS or > something similar for the drive that stores all your > voicemail, etc then it > should come back without a problem as well. > > > Of course you want to make sure the system shuts down cleanly too...Or use a journalling filesystem.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Loftis [mailto:mloftis@wgops.com]> Not old, just small it seems. The little Norstar (merlin?) > Nortel's do > NVRAM/Flash, as do Panasonic's. There's also the App/VM > Module which is an > OS/2 based system, or was.Toshiba Strata systems also use NVRAM to hold their configuration. They pitch this as a selling point -- no moving parts. I think their integrated voicemail system uses a hard disk, though.