CentOS - Aug 2005 - Opteron in 32-bit mode

I'm spec-ing a development server for some Haskell hackers. In 
particular, they need to be able to build and run the Glasgow Haskell 
Compiler (ghc), the x86_64 port of which isn't quite there yet.

My current thought is to get an Opteron-based system, but load it 
(initially, at least) with the 32-bit i386 version of CentOS. That buys 
me near-term ghc compatibility. In the future, should ghc become 64-bit 
clean, I'll be able to upgrade to a full 64-bit OS.

The alternative is to build the server around high-end ia32 chips and 
leave the Opteron for another day.

Does anyone have experience running a 32-bit-only OS on Opterons? Are 
there any gotchas?

-- 
Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> www.madboa.com

Paul,

The Opteron is completely 32bit AND 64bit compatible. You will be able 
to run a 32bit OS as flawlessly as you run a 64bit OS. However, one of 
the great things about the Opteron is that you can run 32bit binaries 
natively within the 64bit OS! ( and by the way the Opteron is the 
HIGHEST end ia32 CPU you can buy! ;) )


... thanks!

- doug

************************************************************************
Doug Zeman            \     \    |   __ \   ____  |   Phone: 408 7747674
CAD Sys Eng II      /  \   |  _/ |  |    |        |   Cell : 408 7187466
CA MicroProc Div   ____ \  |     |  |    |   |    |   Fax  : 408 7747811
Sunnyvale, CA    _/     _\_|    _| _____/  ____/ \|   doug.zeman at amd.com
************************************************************************


Paul Heinlein wrote:
> I'm spec-ing a development server for some Haskell hackers. In 
> particular, they need to be able to build and run the Glasgow Haskell 
> Compiler (ghc), the x86_64 port of which isn't quite there yet.
> 
> My current thought is to get an Opteron-based system, but load it 
> (initially, at least) with the 32-bit i386 version of CentOS. That buys 
> me near-term ghc compatibility. In the future, should ghc become 64-bit 
> clean, I'll be able to upgrade to a full 64-bit OS.
> 
> The alternative is to build the server around high-end ia32 chips and 
> leave the Opteron for another day.
> 
> Does anyone have experience running a 32-bit-only OS on Opterons? Are 
> there any gotchas?
>

Paul Heinlein <heinlein at madboa.com> wrote:
> I'm spec-ing a development server for some Haskell hackers.
> In particular, they need to be able to build and run the
> Glasgow Haskell Compiler (ghc), the x86_64 port of which
> isn't quite there yet.
> My current thought is to get an Opteron-based system, but
> load it (initially, at least) with the 32-bit i386 version
> of CentOS. That buys me near-term ghc compatibility. In the
> future, should ghc become 64-bit clean, I'll be able to 
> upgrade to a full 64-bit OS.
AMD designed x86-64 to fully support running 32-bit
applications _regardless_ what actual addressing model
is being used by the kernel.  In other words, the
kernel can run the processor addressing in either
legacy 36-bit mode (64GiB) or 52-bit mode (16EiB) mode,
and still run 32-bit applications.  The key in how
AMD does this is by continuing to use 48-bit virtual
addresses for both, which is how the Translation Lookahead
Buffer (TLB) of the i486 onward works.  The 52-bit
addressing mode also uses the same Processor Address
Extensions (PAE) approach as 36-bit mode.

[ NOTE:  AMD has reserved a true "flat" 64-bit mode
for future x86-64 implementations.  Until then, the
48-bit virtual/52-bit physical register is how current
Athlon64/Opterons are implemented.  They are actually
a 40-bit (1TiB) physical platform limitation, which is
tied to its current interconnect logic (long story). ]

When you run a Linux/x86-64 kernel, you get the 52-bit
(flat) mode.  When you run a Linux/x86-64 kernel, you
get the 36-bit mode (LOWMEM/HIGHMEM).

If you run 32-bit applications either, you will have
4GiB user-space limitations.  You must also call only
32-bit libraries from 32-bit applications.  That's
about the only issue with x86-64 releases, the fact
that you may require an i386 library, instead of a
x86_64 library.
> The alternative is to build the server around high-end
> ia32 chips and leave the Opteron for another day.
It is never recommended because of performance issues
with 32-bit/4GiB models -- especially as you pass 1GiB
of memory, and definitely when you exceed 4GiB.

Especially if you have a lot of I/O.
> Does anyone have experience running a 32-bit-only OS
> on Opterons? Are there any gotchas?
None on Linux/x86-64 I'm aware of.  GNU has been largely
64-bit clean since the mid-to-late '90s (thanx to Alpha, MIPS
and other developments).  This is unlike Windows (which was
always released as 32-bit on Alpha, MIPS, etc..., long
story).

Windows XP 64-bit Edition and Windows 2003 Server have many
because the Win32 codebase is _not_ 64-bit clean like GNU has
been for a long time.  Microsoft's Windows 64 OSes use
largely Win32 on Win64 (WoW) subsystem which is not very
fast, instead of providing true Win64 services and programs.

The Opteron is currently a true 40-bit (1TiB) interconnect,
48-bit (256TiB) virtual, 52-bit (4TiB) register platform,
including offering an I/O MMU for "safe" I/O transfers above
4GiB of memory (including any I/O card memory mapped to
ranges above 4GiB, or using DMA to programs in memory above
4GiB).

In fact, for servers with 4+GiB of memory, Intel EM64T
processors have the _same_ I/O limitations ("bounce buffers")
as IA32 processors, whereas AMD Opterons do not.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Paul Heinlein wrote:
> Does anyone have experience running a 32-bit-only OS on Opterons? Are 
> there any gotchas?
We've been running RHEL3 in 32 bit mode on Sun v40z's (rebadged Newisys
boxes) for almost a year at work.  No issues other than the usual
goofiness about Broadcom network chips, etc.  Note:  I would NOT
recommend the v40z or the straight Newisys box.  They are poorly
implemented platforms.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Wildman, CISSP, RHCE       jim at rossberry.com http://www.rossberry.com
"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best
state, is a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
Thomas Paine

Paul Heinlein wrote:
> I'm spec-ing a development server for some Haskell hackers. In 
> particular, they need to be able to build and run the Glasgow Haskell 
> Compiler (ghc), the x86_64 port of which isn't quite there yet.
>
> My current thought is to get an Opteron-based system, but load it 
> (initially, at least) with the 32-bit i386 version of CentOS. That 
> buys me near-term ghc compatibility. In the future, should ghc become 
> 64-bit clean, I'll be able to upgrade to a full 64-bit OS.
>
> The alternative is to build the server around high-end ia32 chips and 
> leave the Opteron for another day.
>
> Does anyone have experience running a 32-bit-only OS on Opterons? Are 
> there any gotchas?
>
I planned on doing a similar thing until I found that for some reason, 
cool & quiet does not seem to work unless in 64 bit mode under linux at 
least. I decided to go 64 bit because the server was going to be running 
in my garage and I wanted it as cool as possible.



Has anyone managed to get CPU Throttling/CNQ working on a 32bit linux ?

Bards.