I gave a talk on ZFS at a local user group meeting this evening. What I didn''t know going in was that the meeting was hosted at a Novell consulting shop. I got asked a lot of "what does ZFS do that NSS doesn''t do" questions that I could not answer (mostly because I know almost nothing about Novell). Is there some white paper or something on the topic? I am not on the zfs discuss list, so please remember to include my e-mail address on any response. alan
Alan Perry wrote: > I gave a talk on ZFS at a local user group meeting this evening. What I didn''t > know going in was that the meeting was hosted at a Novell consulting shop. I got > asked a lot of "what does ZFS do that NSS doesn''t do" questions that I could not > answer (mostly because I know almost nothing about Novell). > > Is there some white paper or something on the topic? BTW, in case it wasn''t completely clear, I am looking for material that compares ZFS and NSS, not material that just describes NSS.
Alan Perry wrote:> Alan Perry wrote: > > > I gave a talk on ZFS at a local user group meeting this evening. > What I didn''t > > know going in was that the meeting was hosted at a Novell consulting > shop. I got > > asked a lot of "what does ZFS do that NSS doesn''t do" questions that > I could not > > answer (mostly because I know almost nothing about Novell). > > > > Is there some white paper or something on the topic? >I googled for "Novell NSS" and went straight to the Overview: http://www.novell.com/documentation/nw65/nss_enu/data/hut0i3h5.html#hut0i3h5 "NSS abstracts up to four physical NetWare partitions to make them appear as contiguous free space" ZFS can abstract many more than four of anything to make them appear as continguous free space. ZFS can be used on Solaris for SPARC, Solaris for X86, and soon to be on the Mac, and anywhere else where people decide to port ZFS. "You can choose space from at least four devices of up to 2 TB each to create a pool with a maximum pool size of 8 TB." [and more stuff describing limitations of NSS right off the bat] You can make ZFS pool of any nymber of device, the max file size of ZFS is in exabytes, max pool size is some ridiculously big number. Checksumed, open and free, yada yada. How about that to start? CT
On 2/28/08, Christine Tran <Christine.Tran at sun.com> wrote:> > Alan Perry wrote: > > Alan Perry wrote: > > > > > I gave a talk on ZFS at a local user group meeting this evening. > > What I didn''t > > > know going in was that the meeting was hosted at a Novell consulting > > shop. I got > > > asked a lot of "what does ZFS do that NSS doesn''t do" questions that > > I could not > > > answer (mostly because I know almost nothing about Novell). > > > > > > Is there some white paper or something on the topic? > > > > I googled for "Novell NSS" and went straight to the Overview: > > http://www.novell.com/documentation/nw65/nss_enu/data/hut0i3h5.html#hut0i3h5 > > "NSS abstracts up to four physical NetWare partitions to make them > appear as contiguous free space" > > ZFS can abstract many more than four of anything to make them appear as > continguous free space. ZFS can be used on Solaris for SPARC, Solaris > for X86, and soon to be on the Mac, and anywhere else where people > decide to port ZFS. > > "You can choose space from at least four devices of up to 2 TB each to > create a pool with a maximum pool size of 8 TB." [and more stuff > describing limitations of NSS right off the bat] > > You can make ZFS pool of any nymber of device, the max file size of ZFS > is in exabytes, max pool size is some ridiculously big number. > Checksumed, open and free, yada yada. How about that to start? > > CT > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >Don''t forget, ZFS is open source, and can be ported to any other number of platforms as well. It''s also currently supported on FreeBSD 7.0, and is basically production ready on that platform. The open source is HUGE in my mind, you aren''t tied to Solaris. Granted, that is where the main development is taking place right now, but if Sun were to fold up shop, or kill off solaris *cough*netware*cough*, zfs isn''t going anywhere, and your data should be portable. I''m going to be blunt, and probably will rile up a few trolls if there are any on this mailing list: If you''re talking to anyone still on netware, they''re a netware zealot, and nothing you can say is going to change that. If they haven''t found a reason to throw netware under the bus yet, they aren''t going to. No reasonable argument as to why ZFS is superior to NSS will be heard, there will always be some caveat (ITS NOT SUPPORTED BY NOVELL!!!11), as to why it''s just not a good enough reason to switch. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20080228/ecb5d2f6/attachment.html>
Tim wrote:> Don''t forget, ZFS is open source, and can be ported to any other > number of platforms as well. It''s also currently supported on FreeBSD > 7.0, and is basically production ready on that platform. > > The open source is HUGE in my mind, you aren''t tied to Solaris. > Granted, that is where the main development is taking place right now, > but if Sun were to fold up shop, or kill off solaris > *cough*netware*cough*, zfs isn''t going anywhere, and your data should > be portable. > > I''m going to be blunt, and probably will rile up a few trolls if there > are any on this mailing list: > If you''re talking to anyone still on netware, they''re a netware > zealot, and nothing you can say is going to change that. > If they haven''t found a reason to throw netware under the bus yet, > they aren''t going to. No reasonable argument as to why ZFS is > superior to NSS will be heard, there will always be some caveat (ITS > NOT SUPPORTED BY NOVELL!!!11), as to why it''s just not a good enough > reason to switch.Out of the Novell-types at the talk, one was a Novell "zealot" and the rest were just folks who make a living supporting Novell customers. Also, NSS was apparently been ported to Linux. alan
On 2/28/08, Alan Perry <Alan.Perry at sun.com> wrote:> Tim wrote: > > > Don''t forget, ZFS is open source, and can be ported to any other > > number of platforms as well. It''s also currently supported on FreeBSD > > 7.0, and is basically production ready on that platform. > > > > The open source is HUGE in my mind, you aren''t tied to Solaris. > > Granted, that is where the main development is taking place right now, > > but if Sun were to fold up shop, or kill off solaris > > *cough*netware*cough*, zfs isn''t going anywhere, and your data should > > be portable. > > > > I''m going to be blunt, and probably will rile up a few trolls if there > > are any on this mailing list: > > If you''re talking to anyone still on netware, they''re a netware > > zealot, and nothing you can say is going to change that. > > If they haven''t found a reason to throw netware under the bus yet, > > they aren''t going to. No reasonable argument as to why ZFS is > > superior to NSS will be heard, there will always be some caveat (ITS > > NOT SUPPORTED BY NOVELL!!!11), as to why it''s just not a good enough > > reason to switch. > > Out of the Novell-types at the talk, one was a Novell "zealot" and the > rest were just folks who make a living supporting Novell customers. > Also, NSS was apparently been ported to Linux. > > alan > >
On 2/28/08, Alan Perry <Alan.Perry at sun.com> wrote:> > Tim wrote: > > > Don''t forget, ZFS is open source, and can be ported to any other > > number of platforms as well. It''s also currently supported on FreeBSD > > 7.0, and is basically production ready on that platform. > > > > The open source is HUGE in my mind, you aren''t tied to Solaris. > > Granted, that is where the main development is taking place right now, > > but if Sun were to fold up shop, or kill off solaris > > *cough*netware*cough*, zfs isn''t going anywhere, and your data should > > be portable. > > > > I''m going to be blunt, and probably will rile up a few trolls if there > > are any on this mailing list: > > If you''re talking to anyone still on netware, they''re a netware > > zealot, and nothing you can say is going to change that. > > If they haven''t found a reason to throw netware under the bus yet, > > they aren''t going to. No reasonable argument as to why ZFS is > > superior to NSS will be heard, there will always be some caveat (ITS > > NOT SUPPORTED BY NOVELL!!!11), as to why it''s just not a good enough > > reason to switch. > > > Out of the Novell-types at the talk, one was a Novell "zealot" and the > rest were just folks who make a living supporting Novell customers. > Also, NSS was apparently been ported to Linux. > > > alanGlad to hear that. I''ve NEVER understood people being close minded about technology. My experiences have been less than stellar with Netware folks. My belief has always been the sooner you realize technology is a tool and to use it as such, the sooner you will learn to use it efficiently. The greatest hammer in the world will be inferior to a drill when driving a screw :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20080228/83ef47d3/attachment.html>
Tim wrote:> > The greatest hammer in the world will be inferior to a drill when > driving a screw :) >The greatest hammer in the world is a rotary hammer, and it works quite well for driving screws or digging through degenerate granite ;-) Need a better analogy. Here''s what I use (quite often) on the ranch: http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/hammer/dh40mr/dh40mr.html -- richard
Richard Elling <Richard.Elling at Sun.COM> writes:> Tim wrote: >> >> The greatest hammer in the world will be inferior to a drill when >> driving a screw :) >> > > The greatest hammer in the world is a rotary hammer, and it > works quite well for driving screws or digging through degenerate > granite ;-) Need a better analogy. > Here''s what I use (quite often) on the ranch: > http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/hammer/dh40mr/dh40mr.htmlHasn''t "the greatest hammer in the world" lost the ability to drive nails? I''ll have to start belting them in with the handle of a screwdriver...
Hm - Based on this detail from the page: Change lever for switching between "Rotation + Hammering" , "Neutral" and "Hammering only" I''d hope it could still hammer... Though I''d suspect the size of nails it would hammer would be somewhat limited... ;) Nathan. Boyd Adamson wrote:> Richard Elling <Richard.Elling at Sun.COM> writes: >> Tim wrote: >>> The greatest hammer in the world will be inferior to a drill when >>> driving a screw :) >>> >> The greatest hammer in the world is a rotary hammer, and it >> works quite well for driving screws or digging through degenerate >> granite ;-) Need a better analogy. >> Here''s what I use (quite often) on the ranch: >> http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/hammer/dh40mr/dh40mr.html > > Hasn''t "the greatest hammer in the world" lost the ability to drive > nails? > > I''ll have to start belting them in with the handle of a screwdriver... > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Boyd Adamson wrote:> Richard Elling <Richard.Elling at Sun.COM> writes: > >> Tim wrote: >> >>> The greatest hammer in the world will be inferior to a drill when >>> driving a screw :) >>> >>> >> The greatest hammer in the world is a rotary hammer, and it >> works quite well for driving screws or digging through degenerate >> granite ;-) Need a better analogy. >> Here''s what I use (quite often) on the ranch: >> http://www.hitachi-koki.com/powertools/products/hammer/dh40mr/dh40mr.html >> > > Hasn''t "the greatest hammer in the world" lost the ability to drive > nails? >I use guns to drive nails :-) Maybe you guys have been so busy playing with computers that you''ve missed a complete revolution in the productivity tools for construction? If you want, I''m giving free fence building lessons next week, you can catch up on all of the latest technology :-) -- richard