Hi Dear, I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that bring comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? Thank very much -- *Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas* *LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ * _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Given enough effort, anything is possible. At this point in time, I definitely think Xen is better than KVM. If Xen development stalled and KVM development continued to move forward, KVM could become better at some point in time. Predications tend to be tricky, though. About 50 years ago, everybody assumed we would all drive flying cars by now. -----Original Message----- From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Steven Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:12 AM To: Xen User-List Subject: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source Hi Dear, I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that bring comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? Thank very much -- Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ <http://ainfra.net/wordpress/wp-content/themes/Altimate/images/logo.jpg> _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Xen has some very large deployments (Amazon EC2). It''s not easy to say what kind of market share KVM has these days, assuming a minority of all Red Hat customers actually use it. I think it''s fair to say KVM has an uphill battle to fight with the likes of Xen and VMWare on the market. Ultimately if both products are very good, small margins of performance won''t matter to most users. Red Hat took a big gamble on a niche virtualization technology, since in my opinion they don''t have the market muscle to make KVM a dominant player. Time will tell how this works out for them. I''ve also seen posts from people saying (in effect): "You should try out KVM, it is very good." I believe they''re probably right. The problem for KVM supporters is they haven''t given me any reason to switch. (And before someone mentions it, I don''t count dom0 support as a reason, since I have no business requirement to run RHEL 6 on each piece of hardware I own.) From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of admin@xenhive.com Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 2:09 PM To: ''Xen User-List'' Subject: RE: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source Given enough effort, anything is possible. At this point in time, I definitely think Xen is better than KVM. If Xen development stalled and KVM development continued to move forward, KVM could become better at some point in time. Predications tend to be tricky, though. About 50 years ago, everybody assumed we would all drive flying cars by now. -----Original Message----- From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com<mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com]<mailto:[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com]> On Behalf Of Bruno Steven Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:12 AM To: Xen User-List Subject: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source Hi Dear, I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that bring comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? Thank very much -- Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ [http://ainfra.net/wordpress/wp-content/themes/Altimate/images/logo.jpg] _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 08/08/2011 11:12 AM, Bruno Steven wrote:> Hi Dear, > > I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN > sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that > bring comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? > > Thank very muchIt''s hard to say "which is better". Apples and Oranges are both food from trees, but they''re pretty different other than that. In the same way, Xen and KVM are both hypervisors, but they are very different in how they work. So it''s more a question of which is *better for you*. To answer that though, you need to provide a lot more information about what it is you want to do and where your priorities are. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer@alteeve.com Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
You mention Amazon as using XEN like it is some off the shelf XEN install. It is definitely not. The same goes for 3Tera/CA. Sure, they use XEN, but that stuff is no where NEAR the stock XEN software. When people pimp the fact that Amazon or some other large institution uses XEN, it makes everyone believe that they can have a setup like those mentioned above with little to no effort. Please justify that type of comment when you make them. Thanks! On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com> wrote:> Xen has some very large deployments (Amazon EC2). It''s not easy to say > what kind of market share KVM has these days, assuming a minority of all Red > Hat customers actually use it. I think it''s fair to say KVM has an uphill > battle to fight with the likes of Xen and VMWare on the market. Ultimately > if both products are very good, small margins of performance won''t matter to > most users.**** > > ** ** > > Red Hat took a big gamble on a niche virtualization technology, since in my > opinion they don''t have the market muscle to make KVM a dominant player. > Time will tell how this works out for them. I''ve also seen posts from > people saying (in effect): "You should try out KVM, it is very good." I > believe they''re probably right. The problem for KVM supporters is they > haven''t given me any reason to switch. (And before someone mentions it, I > don’t count dom0 support as a reason, since I have no business requirement > to run RHEL 6 on each piece of hardware I own.)**** > > ** ** > > *From:* xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto: > xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] *On Behalf Of *admin@xenhive.com > *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2011 2:09 PM > *To:* ''Xen User-List'' > *Subject:* RE: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source**** > > ** ** > > Given enough effort, anything is possible. At this point in time, I > definitely think Xen is better than KVM. If Xen development stalled and KVM > development continued to move forward, KVM could become better at some point > in time. Predications tend to be tricky, though. About 50 years ago, > everybody assumed we would all drive flying cars by now.**** > > **** > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] *On Behalf Of *Bruno Steven > *Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2011 10:12 AM > *To:* Xen User-List > *Subject:* [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source**** > > **** > > Hi Dear, > > I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN > sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that bring > comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? > > Thank very much > > -- > *Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas* > *LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ ***** > > **** > > > > > **** > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >-- Never wrestle with a pig. You''ll only get dirty and the pig likes it. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 08/08/2011 04:09 PM, Scott Damron wrote:> You mention Amazon as using XEN like it is some off the shelf XEN > install. It is definitely not. The same goes for 3Tera/CA. Sure, they > use XEN, but that stuff is no where NEAR the stock XEN software. When > people pimp the fact that Amazon or some other large institution uses > XEN, it makes everyone believe that they can have a setup like those > mentioned above with little to no effort. Please justify that type of > comment when you make them. > > Thanks!Xen is the hypervisor... Amazon''s EC2 is far, far more than simple domUs on a pile of dom0s, obviously. I should hope that fact is self-evident. What makes Amazon what they are is their management infrastructure and user-facing tools, which have nothing really to do with Xen at all. I don''t think a disclaimer is needed, personally, but clarification never hurts. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer@alteeve.com Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
My point is that Amazon has a choice to run their cloud on technology derived from either Xen or KVM. They may have started with Xen because it was the first to market, or a superior technology, or free, but whatever the reason I presume they have chosen it over competitors. And they''ve likely done far more analysis than I have of the virtualization market. I''ve done my own limited evaluation of the products, but I also put stock into what I hear and see from others. I didn''t mean to imply with my original post that Amazon built their cloud on Xen''s tools. We know they use at least the hypervisor and Linux kernel, and these may or may not be extensively modified, I don''t know. The user space tools to manage Xen deployments are bare bones in the community edition, so many users have either bought/downloaded alternative management tools, or created their own. Amazon clearly put a lot of effort into the design and implementation of their cloud, and I presume anyone creating their own cloud will do the same. When I think of the Xen/KVM arguments I usually consider the architectural design issues and the features and performance of the core components (kernel, hypervisor). Management tools are important, but not an interesting point of debate to me since one technology doesn''t necessarily have much of an advantage over the other in that regard, and layers like libvirt tend to make the tools agnostic anyway. It''s like debating the merits of two different operating systems based on the design of the kernel. Operating systems need much more than a kernel to succeed in the market, but it''s not a stretch to claim the kernel is the most important component. From: Scott Damron [mailto:sdamron@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:09 PM To: Jeff Sturm Cc: admin@xenhive.com; Xen User-List Subject: Re: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source You mention Amazon as using XEN like it is some off the shelf XEN install. It is definitely not. The same goes for 3Tera/CA. Sure, they use XEN, but that stuff is no where NEAR the stock XEN software. When people pimp the fact that Amazon or some other large institution uses XEN, it makes everyone believe that they can have a setup like those mentioned above with little to no effort. Please justify that type of comment when you make them. Thanks! On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com<mailto:jeff.sturm@eprize.com>> wrote: Xen has some very large deployments (Amazon EC2). It''s not easy to say what kind of market share KVM has these days, assuming a minority of all Red Hat customers actually use it. I think it''s fair to say KVM has an uphill battle to fight with the likes of Xen and VMWare on the market. Ultimately if both products are very good, small margins of performance won''t matter to most users. Red Hat took a big gamble on a niche virtualization technology, since in my opinion they don''t have the market muscle to make KVM a dominant player. Time will tell how this works out for them. I''ve also seen posts from people saying (in effect): "You should try out KVM, it is very good." I believe they''re probably right. The problem for KVM supporters is they haven''t given me any reason to switch. (And before someone mentions it, I don''t count dom0 support as a reason, since I have no business requirement to run RHEL 6 on each piece of hardware I own.) From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com<mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com<mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com>] On Behalf Of admin@xenhive.com<mailto:admin@xenhive.com> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 2:09 PM To: ''Xen User-List'' Subject: RE: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source Given enough effort, anything is possible. At this point in time, I definitely think Xen is better than KVM. If Xen development stalled and KVM development continued to move forward, KVM could become better at some point in time. Predications tend to be tricky, though. About 50 years ago, everybody assumed we would all drive flying cars by now. -----Original Message----- From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com<mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com]<mailto:[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com]> On Behalf Of Bruno Steven Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:12 AM To: Xen User-List Subject: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source Hi Dear, I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that bring comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? Thank very much -- Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com<mailto:Xen-users@lists.xensource.com> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users -- Never wrestle with a pig. You''ll only get dirty and the pig likes it. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
I completely agree with you on all points made. Sorry if I came off like I was the email list police, I just see poor saps getting their hopes up that they can have a cloud like Amazon to sell to their customers in a timeframe that is completely unreasonable. Several of them have quoted mailing list conversations as the foundation for they crazy pipe dreams! I have spent more than a year developing a public cloud offering based on Xen and lots of hours of reworking things, creating an interface for management and billing and such things, so it aggravates me when n00bs pick and choose mailing list posts to base their "professional opinion" on! Okay /rant off! On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com> wrote:> My point is that Amazon has a choice to run their cloud on technology > derived from either Xen or KVM. They may have started with Xen because it > was the first to market, or a superior technology, or free, but whatever the > reason I presume they have chosen it over competitors. And they''ve likely > done far more analysis than I have of the virtualization market. I''ve done > my own limited evaluation of the products, but I also put stock into what I > hear and see from others. > > > > I didn''t mean to imply with my original post that Amazon built their cloud > on Xen''s tools. We know they use at least the hypervisor and Linux kernel, > and these may or may not be extensively modified, I don''t know. The user > space tools to manage Xen deployments are bare bones in the community > edition, so many users have either bought/downloaded alternative management > tools, or created their own. Amazon clearly put a lot of effort into the > design and implementation of their cloud, and I presume anyone creating > their own cloud will do the same. > > > > When I think of the Xen/KVM arguments I usually consider the architectural > design issues and the features and performance of the core components > (kernel, hypervisor). Management tools are important, but not an > interesting point of debate to me since one technology doesn''t necessarily > have much of an advantage over the other in that regard, and layers like > libvirt tend to make the tools agnostic anyway. It''s like debating the > merits of two different operating systems based on the design of the > kernel. Operating systems need much more than a kernel to succeed in the > market, but it''s not a stretch to claim the kernel is the most important > component. > > > > From: Scott Damron [mailto:sdamron@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:09 PM > To: Jeff Sturm > Cc: admin@xenhive.com; Xen User-List > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source > > > > You mention Amazon as using XEN like it is some off the shelf XEN install. > It is definitely not. The same goes for 3Tera/CA. Sure, they use XEN, but > that stuff is no where NEAR the stock XEN software. When people pimp the > fact that Amazon or some other large institution uses XEN, it makes everyone > believe that they can have a setup like those mentioned above with little to > no effort. Please justify that type of comment when you make them. > > > > Thanks! > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com> wrote: > > Xen has some very large deployments (Amazon EC2). It''s not easy to say what > kind of market share KVM has these days, assuming a minority of all Red Hat > customers actually use it. I think it''s fair to say KVM has an uphill > battle to fight with the likes of Xen and VMWare on the market. Ultimately > if both products are very good, small margins of performance won''t matter to > most users. > > > > Red Hat took a big gamble on a niche virtualization technology, since in my > opinion they don''t have the market muscle to make KVM a dominant player. > Time will tell how this works out for them. I''ve also seen posts from > people saying (in effect): "You should try out KVM, it is very good." I > believe they''re probably right. The problem for KVM supporters is they > haven''t given me any reason to switch. (And before someone mentions it, I > don’t count dom0 support as a reason, since I have no business requirement > to run RHEL 6 on each piece of hardware I own.) > > > > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of > admin@xenhive.com > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 2:09 PM > To: ''Xen User-List'' > Subject: RE: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source > > > > Given enough effort, anything is possible. At this point in time, I > definitely think Xen is better than KVM. If Xen development stalled and KVM > development continued to move forward, KVM could become better at some point > in time. Predications tend to be tricky, though. About 50 years ago, > everybody assumed we would all drive flying cars by now. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Steven > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:12 AM > To: Xen User-List > Subject: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source > > > > Hi Dear, > > I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN > sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that bring > comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? > > Thank very much > > -- > Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas > LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > > -- > > Never wrestle with a pig. You''ll only get dirty and the pig likes it.-- Never wrestle with a pig. You''ll only get dirty and the pig likes it. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Scott Damron <sdamron@gmail.com> wrote:> I completely agree with you on all points made. Sorry if I came off > like I was the email list police, I just see poor saps getting their > hopes up that they can have a cloud like Amazon to sell to their > customers in a timeframe that is completely unreasonable. Several of > them have quoted mailing list conversations as the foundation for they > crazy pipe dreams! I have spent more than a year developing a public > cloud offering based on Xen and lots of hours of reworking things, > creating an interface for management and billing and such things, so > it aggravates me when n00bs pick and choose mailing list posts to base > their "professional opinion" on! Okay /rant off! >Well, OpenStack and XEN / XCP does a pretty fair job at getting one there, being fairly easy to setup, investment of time and you can get a fair ways to cloud online...... XEN rocks, KVM is a dog....... I dont see were KVM really garners any market seems most all cloud providers are XEN based, short of the other unspeakable ones..... :)> > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com> wrote: > > My point is that Amazon has a choice to run their cloud on technology > > derived from either Xen or KVM. They may have started with Xen because > it > > was the first to market, or a superior technology, or free, but whatever > the > > reason I presume they have chosen it over competitors. And they''ve > likely > > done far more analysis than I have of the virtualization market. I''ve > done > > my own limited evaluation of the products, but I also put stock into > what I > > hear and see from others. > > > > > > > > I didn''t mean to imply with my original post that Amazon built their > cloud > > on Xen''s tools. We know they use at least the hypervisor and Linux > kernel, > > and these may or may not be extensively modified, I don''t know. The user > > space tools to manage Xen deployments are bare bones in the community > > edition, so many users have either bought/downloaded alternative > management > > tools, or created their own. Amazon clearly put a lot of effort into the > > design and implementation of their cloud, and I presume anyone creating > > their own cloud will do the same. > > > > > > > > When I think of the Xen/KVM arguments I usually consider the > architectural > > design issues and the features and performance of the core components > > (kernel, hypervisor). Management tools are important, but not an > > interesting point of debate to me since one technology doesn''t > necessarily > > have much of an advantage over the other in that regard, and layers like > > libvirt tend to make the tools agnostic anyway. It''s like debating the > > merits of two different operating systems based on the design of the > > kernel. Operating systems need much more than a kernel to succeed in the > > market, but it''s not a stretch to claim the kernel is the most important > > component. > > > > > > > > From: Scott Damron [mailto:sdamron@gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 4:09 PM > > To: Jeff Sturm > > Cc: admin@xenhive.com; Xen User-List > > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source > > > > > > > > You mention Amazon as using XEN like it is some off the shelf XEN > install. > > It is definitely not. The same goes for 3Tera/CA. Sure, they use XEN, > but > > that stuff is no where NEAR the stock XEN software. When people pimp the > > fact that Amazon or some other large institution uses XEN, it makes > everyone > > believe that they can have a setup like those mentioned above with little > to > > no effort. Please justify that type of comment when you make them. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com> > wrote: > > > > Xen has some very large deployments (Amazon EC2). It''s not easy to say > what > > kind of market share KVM has these days, assuming a minority of all Red > Hat > > customers actually use it. I think it''s fair to say KVM has an uphill > > battle to fight with the likes of Xen and VMWare on the market. > Ultimately > > if both products are very good, small margins of performance won''t matter > to > > most users. > > > > > > > > Red Hat took a big gamble on a niche virtualization technology, since in > my > > opinion they don''t have the market muscle to make KVM a dominant player. > > Time will tell how this works out for them. I''ve also seen posts from > > people saying (in effect): "You should try out KVM, it is very good." I > > believe they''re probably right. The problem for KVM supporters is they > > haven''t given me any reason to switch. (And before someone mentions it, > I > > don’t count dom0 support as a reason, since I have no business > requirement > > to run RHEL 6 on each piece of hardware I own.) > > > > > > > > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of > > admin@xenhive.com > > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 2:09 PM > > To: ''Xen User-List'' > > Subject: RE: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source > > > > > > > > Given enough effort, anything is possible. At this point in time, I > > definitely think Xen is better than KVM. If Xen development stalled and > KVM > > development continued to move forward, KVM could become better at some > point > > in time. Predications tend to be tricky, though. About 50 years ago, > > everybody assumed we would all drive flying cars by now. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Steven > > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 10:12 AM > > To: Xen User-List > > Subject: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source > > > > > > > > Hi Dear, > > > > I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN > > sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that > bring > > comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? > > > > Thank very much > > > > -- > > Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas > > LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xen-users mailing list > > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > > > > > -- > > > > Never wrestle with a pig. You''ll only get dirty and the pig likes it. > > > > -- > > Never wrestle with a pig. You''ll only get dirty and the pig likes it. > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Mon, 2011-08-08 at 12:12 -0300, Bruno Steven wrote:> Hi Dear, > > I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN > sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that > bring comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? >"Better" is an extremely relative term. Better at what? Better by what standard? Better features? Better stability? Better technical support? Better hardware support? Better guest support? Better performance? Performance and stability are the easiest of those to measure, but even then you can find different answers. For features - is it because one has more features than the other, or includes all of the features, or has more important features? Is support better because the mailing list has more users, or because a commercial organization backs it, or because it can be installed on a wider variety of hardware? Furthermore, KVM and Xen are very different products, with different underlying architectures. KVM = Kernel Virtual Machine, and is run as part of the Linux kernel. Xen is a hypervisor, a kernel in itself that runs on the hardware and then loads another O/S (dom0) to manage the hypervisor. KVM, since it is part of the Linux kernel, is very set on Linux as the management host. Xen supports Linux and Solaris, and I believe one or more of the BSDs, as dom0. So, for products that are, by their nature, very different, it''s very hard to compare them and determine which one is "better." This is the Xen mailing list, so most people here will probably say that Xen is better. If you ask on the KVM mailing list, you''ll probably get exactly the opposite consensus. Asking if one is better, or will be better, than the other is not really a valid question. A "better" :-) question is: "Will KVM or Xen be better for what I''m trying to accomplish?" That is a very subjective determination that you will have to make for yourself. Someone may have a link for a comparison of the two - Wikipedia might even be a good place to start. Probably the easiest way for you to evaluate which one is better for you is to install them and try them out. Figure out which you''re more comfortable administering, which one has the features you need, which one performs better for the guests you''re installing, etc. (Sorry, Bruno, I''m not trying to flame you or anything like that - if you search through the archives, you''ll see that this question gets asked with decent frequency. I''m just trying to point out that it isn''t as simple as saying, "Yes, Xen is better than KVM right now, but in two years KVM will be better than Xen." It''s very complex, and does not have any easy answer. Of course, because I''m part of the Xen mailing list/community, and because I run Xen on a decent number of servers, it''s simple: Xen is better than KVM!! :-) -Nick -------- This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Thank very much for all answers !!! Have a nice day . On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Nick Couchman <Nick.Couchman@seakr.com>wrote:> On Mon, 2011-08-08 at 12:12 -0300, Bruno Steven wrote: > > Hi Dear, > > > > I read in foruns , sites especialized that KVM will be better than XEN > > sourcer on next years. It is possible ? Somebody has some link that > > bring comparation beteween Xen souce and KVM ? > > > > "Better" is an extremely relative term. Better at what? Better by what > standard? Better features? Better stability? Better technical > support? Better hardware support? Better guest support? Better > performance? Performance and stability are the easiest of those to > measure, but even then you can find different answers. For features - > is it because one has more features than the other, or includes all of > the features, or has more important features? Is support better because > the mailing list has more users, or because a commercial organization > backs it, or because it can be installed on a wider variety of hardware? > > Furthermore, KVM and Xen are very different products, with different > underlying architectures. KVM = Kernel Virtual Machine, and is run as > part of the Linux kernel. Xen is a hypervisor, a kernel in itself that > runs on the hardware and then loads another O/S (dom0) to manage the > hypervisor. KVM, since it is part of the Linux kernel, is very set on > Linux as the management host. Xen supports Linux and Solaris, and I > believe one or more of the BSDs, as dom0. So, for products that are, by > their nature, very different, it''s very hard to compare them and > determine which one is "better." > > This is the Xen mailing list, so most people here will probably say that > Xen is better. If you ask on the KVM mailing list, you''ll probably get > exactly the opposite consensus. > > Asking if one is better, or will be better, than the other is not really > a valid question. A "better" :-) question is: "Will KVM or Xen be > better for what I''m trying to accomplish?" That is a very subjective > determination that you will have to make for yourself. Someone may have > a link for a comparison of the two - Wikipedia might even be a good > place to start. Probably the easiest way for you to evaluate which one > is better for you is to install them and try them out. Figure out which > you''re more comfortable administering, which one has the features you > need, which one performs better for the guests you''re installing, etc. > > (Sorry, Bruno, I''m not trying to flame you or anything like that - if > you search through the archives, you''ll see that this question gets > asked with decent frequency. I''m just trying to point out that it isn''t > as simple as saying, "Yes, Xen is better than KVM right now, but in two > years KVM will be better than Xen." It''s very complex, and does not > have any easy answer. Of course, because I''m part of the Xen mailing > list/community, and because I run Xen on a decent number of servers, > it''s simple: Xen is better than KVM!! :-) > > -Nick > > > > -------- > This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole > use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or > you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended > recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering > (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are > strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or > otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If > you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. > Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business > of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR. >-- *Bruno Steven - Administrador de sistemas* *LPIC-2 / MCSA-Windows 2003 / CompTIA Security+ * _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com> wrote:> > When I think of the Xen/KVM arguments I usually consider the architectural > design issues and the features and performance of the core components > (kernel, hypervisor).The type-1 (stand alone) architecture that Xen has is one advantage that makes Xen stand out. Stub domains, driver domains, and dom0 disaggregation will not be able to be achieved (at least not to the same degree and not on top of a monolithic kernel like Linux) by a type-2 (integrated) hypervisor like KVM. Xen has always had the best mix of performance, isolation (both in terms of security and performance), and scalability.> Management tools are important, but not an > interesting point of debate to me since one technology doesn''t necessarily > have much of an advantage over the other in that regard, and layers like > libvirt tend to make the tools agnostic anyway.libvirt has many limitations in comparison to the Xen API. This is explained in detail by Ewan Mellor here: http://wiki.openstack.org/XenAPI. At a high level, the Xen API has a lot more functionality and is designed to for enterprise use. -- Todd Deshane http://www.linkedin.com/in/deshantm http://www.xen.org/products/cloudxen.html http://runningxen.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Just to add something anecdotal: In my country, when people talk about virtualization (meaning: server consolidation), they will talk about baremetal hypervisors, i.e., VMware, Hyper-V, and XenServer. No one -- not even some IT SysAdmins I know who are rabid Linux ''evangelists'' -- uses KVM. As to why exactly, I don''t know. But what I know is that in my country it''s relatively easy to find support for VMware, Hyper-V, and XenServer. But no reputable System Integrator I know is familiar with KVM. When one''s handling a mission-critical back-end infrastructure for a multi-million dollar company, one wants full support (IOW, if anything bad happens, I can whack the head of someone else). Rgds, On 2011-08-12, Todd Deshane <todd.deshane@xen.org> wrote:> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Jeff Sturm <jeff.sturm@eprize.com> wrote: >> >> When I think of the Xen/KVM arguments I usually consider the architectural >> design issues and the features and performance of the core components >> (kernel, hypervisor). > > The type-1 (stand alone) architecture that Xen has is one advantage > that makes Xen stand out. Stub domains, driver domains, and dom0 > disaggregation will not be able to be achieved (at least not to the > same degree and not on top of a monolithic kernel like Linux) by a > type-2 (integrated) hypervisor like KVM. > > Xen has always had the best mix of performance, isolation (both in > terms of security and performance), and scalability. > >> Management tools are important, but not an >> interesting point of debate to me since one technology doesn''t necessarily >> have much of an advantage over the other in that regard, and layers like >> libvirt tend to make the tools agnostic anyway. > > libvirt has many limitations in comparison to the Xen API. This is > explained in detail by Ewan Mellor here: > http://wiki.openstack.org/XenAPI. At a high level, the Xen API has a > lot more functionality and is designed to for enterprise use. > > -- > Todd Deshane > http://www.linkedin.com/in/deshantm > http://www.xen.org/products/cloudxen.html > http://runningxen.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >-- -- Pandu E Poluan - IT Optimizer My website: http://pandu.poluan.info/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>________________________________________ >From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Pandu Poluan [pandu@poluan.info] >Sent: 13 August 2011 10:37 >To: Xen User-List >Subject: Re: [Xen-users] KVM vs XEN source > >Just to add something anecdotal: > >In my country, when people talk about virtualization (meaning: server >consolidation), they will talk about baremetal hypervisors, i.e., >VMware, Hyper-V, and XenServer. > >No one -- not even some IT SysAdmins I know who are rabid Linux >''evangelists'' -- uses KVM. > >As to why exactly, I don''t know. But what I know is that in my country >it''s relatively easy to find support for VMware, Hyper-V, and >XenServer. But no reputable System Integrator I know is familiar with >KVM. > >When one''s handling a mission-critical back-end infrastructure for a >multi-million dollar company, one wants full support (IOW, if anything >bad happens, I can whack the head of someone else). > >Rgds,Not 100% correct, you are comparing whole virtualization products with basic hypervisor. You can compare XEN with KVM, when talking about hypervisors... but when talking about virtualuzation solutions, let''s talk about XenServer, Oracle VM and RHEV for example. And be sure, that you can get full support from Red Hat for RHEV. ;) RHEV had slow start (due to Qumranet''s decision to base the management tools on MS platform), but the next version coming in very close future looks very promising (no need for MS platform anymore - they migrated the management tools from .NET/MSSQL to JAVA/PostgreSQL). Let''s hope that both XEN and KVM toolstacks will find some common code usage (QEMU, SPICE, maybe OpenVSwitch) to not waste too much energy on doing the same thing just some other way. :) Regards Matej _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Zary Matej <matej.zary@cvtisr.sk> wrote:> Let''s hope that both XEN and KVM toolstacks will find > some common code usage (QEMU, SPICE, maybe > OpenVSwitch) to not waste too much energy on doing the same thing just some other way. :)Xen unstable already has upstream QEMU support: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/QEMUUpstream VirtIO support is also work in progress: http://blog.xen.org/index.php/2011/07/19/wei-liu-status-update-of-the-virtio-on-xen-project/ XCP/XenServer already have Open vSwitch support. Open vSwitch is not yet upstream yet, but once it is KVM and Xen (hypervisor) will easily be able to have the support for it. People use Open vSwitch with Xen (hypervisor) and KVM manually already. Thanks, Todd -- Todd Deshane http://www.linkedin.com/in/deshantm http://www.xen.org/products/cloudxen.html http://runningxen.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users