Michael Lueck
2010-Sep-02 17:27 UTC
[Xen-users] Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
Greetings- Server visualization seems very different than desktop visualization ala VirtualBox, Parallels, VMware. Already I have encountered (with Virtuozzo) that: 1) Does not boot a standard Ubuntu kernel, so is unable to run IPTables 2) Is not able to support ACL''s on the filesystem 3) Unable to get to the server console - to watch the boot process, to fix sshd, etc... 4) Does not support Ubuntu distro version upgrades. Stuck at the level you start at. I have heard that there are tools to be able to access the server console with Xen, but what about my other current points? Which Xen providers do a good job with Ubuntu? (10.04 at present) I would want a custom partitioning scheme, separate /boot, /, /srv, /var and so on... and ext4 for /boot, xfs for all others. I assume with higher versions of Xen comes more capabilities, so knowing which version of Xen said provider uses would also be a search criteria I guess. Sincerely, -- Michael Lueck Lueck Data Systems http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
David Markey
2010-Sep-02 17:47 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
If you have the version of pygrub out of Xen 4.0.1, 1) You run the version of the kernel distributed by Ubuntu(thanks to pv_ops) 2) I dont see how ACLs wouldnt be supported by the filesystem. 3) You have full access to the server console through /dev/hvc0 4) Distro level upgrades(as in from 10.04 to 10.10) *could* break the booting process. this is true. Regards, David The only con with using Ubuntu paravirtualised is lack of a framebuffer. On 2 September 2010 18:27, Michael Lueck <mlueck@lueckdatasystems.com>wrote:> Greetings- > > Server visualization seems very different than desktop visualization ala > VirtualBox, Parallels, VMware. Already I have encountered (with Virtuozzo) > that: > > 1) Does not boot a standard Ubuntu kernel, so is unable to run IPTables > 2) Is not able to support ACL''s on the filesystem > 3) Unable to get to the server console - to watch the boot process, to fix > sshd, etc... > 4) Does not support Ubuntu distro version upgrades. Stuck at the level you > start at. > > I have heard that there are tools to be able to access the server console > with Xen, but what about my other current points? > > Which Xen providers do a good job with Ubuntu? (10.04 at present) > > I would want a custom partitioning scheme, separate /boot, /, /srv, /var > and so on... and ext4 for /boot, xfs for all others. > > I assume with higher versions of Xen comes more capabilities, so knowing > which version of Xen said provider uses would also be a search criteria I > guess. > > Sincerely, > > -- > Michael Lueck > Lueck Data Systems > http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Michael Lueck
2010-Sep-02 18:32 UTC
[Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
David Markey wrote:> If you have the version of pygrub out of Xen 4.0.1, > > 1) You run the version of the kernel distributed by Ubuntu(thanks to pv_ops)Excellent! Does pv_ops use Intel VT or AMD-V (hardware-assisted virtualization)? I heard that might get around some of the limitations Virtuozzo has locked us into.> 2) I dont see how ACLs wouldnt be supported by the filesystem.In Virtuozzo, the filesystem in the guest OS is not mounted via /etc/fstab in the guest OS, but rather its definition is in the Virtozzo administrative interface, and thus only supports the things that Virtuozzo supports. In the version of Virtuozzo we happen to be dealing with, ACL''s are not supported.> 3) You have full access to the server console through /dev/hvc0And tools come with Xen to be able to connect to that device over the Internet?> 4) Distro level upgrades(as in from 10.04 to 10.10) *could* break the > booting process. this is true.Same as distro upgrades in general, or are there Xen twists thrown in "for bonus"? I would assume it would be possible to do the server console connect in #3) and attempt to fix said problem. Thus you are not totally locked out ever. Perhaps could get into trouble if for example a grub --> grub2 upgrade went south, which I had to recently boot off of a GUI LiveCD to fix that condition. Not possible to boot off of a GUI LiveCD of Ubuntu in that case. hhhmmm.... Thanks much for the quick answers! Much appreciated! Sincerely, -- Michael Lueck Lueck Data Systems http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
David Markey
2010-Sep-02 18:38 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
Sorry, but is Virtuozzo not actually OpenVZ? On 2 September 2010 19:32, Michael Lueck <mlueck@lueckdatasystems.com>wrote:> Virtuozzo_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Michael Lueck
2010-Sep-02 18:41 UTC
[Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
David Markey wrote:> Sorry, but is Virtuozzo not actually OpenVZ?Virtuozzo is a Parallels product, so not OpenVZ. "Parallels Virtuozzo Containers" http://www.parallels.com/products/pvc45/ Sincerely, -- Michael Lueck Lueck Data Systems http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
George Shuklin
2010-Sep-02 18:48 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
It''s different technologies. Xen can use VT - this mode called ''HVM'' and it does not need for pv_ops. And Xen can use paravirtualization mode (which one is much faster than HVM), and it CAN use pv_ops kernel for guest (but oldschool -xen- kernel IMHO better).> Does pv_ops use Intel VT or AMD-V (hardware-assisted virtualization)? I heard that might get around some of the limitations Virtuozzo has locked us into. >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
David Markey
2010-Sep-02 18:58 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
Quote: "Virtuozzo is created and distributed by SWSoft. In 2006, SWsoft released the core of Virtuozzo under the GNU GPL (General Public License) in an open-source project called OpenVZ." So, Virtuozzo/OpenVZ is operating system level virtualisation. Each "Container" runs on the same Linux kernel. Xen is hypervisor based virtualisation, which means it is far more flexible, and doesn''t have most of the issues you''ve raised. Each VM has its own kernel. Regards, David On 2 September 2010 19:41, Michael Lueck <mlueck@lueckdatasystems.com>wrote:> David Markey wrote: > >> Sorry, but is Virtuozzo not actually OpenVZ? >> > > Virtuozzo is a Parallels product, so not OpenVZ. > > "Parallels Virtuozzo Containers" > http://www.parallels.com/products/pvc45/ > > > Sincerely, > > -- > Michael Lueck > Lueck Data Systems > http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Michael Lueck
2010-Sep-02 19:36 UTC
[Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
David Markey wrote:> Quote: > "Virtuozzo is created and distributed by SWSoft. In 2006, SWsoft > released the core of Virtuozzo under the GNU GPL (General Public > License) in an open-source project called OpenVZ."I had no idea that OpenVZ was also a SWSoft (new name Parallels) technology as well. Thanks for the mini education.> Xen is hypervisor based virtualisation, which means it is far more > flexible, and doesn''t have most of the issues you''ve raised. Each VM has > its own kernel.Oh, so does Xen indeed use the official Ubuntu kernel, or does the kernel come from Xen and happens to work with Ubuntu? All right, sounds exciting / interesting! :-) So any recommendations as to providers that are running the current Xen code and provide good Ubuntu support? Sincerely, -- Michael Lueck Lueck Data Systems http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Matthew Law
2010-Sep-03 08:38 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
On Thu, September 2, 2010 8:36 pm, Michael Lueck wrote:> Oh, so does Xen indeed use the official Ubuntu kernel, or does the kernel > come from Xen and happens to work with Ubuntu? > > All right, sounds exciting / interesting! :-) So any recommendations as to > providers that are running the current Xen code and provide good Ubuntu > support?Best to check the Xen wiki for a better description, but basically Xen is a hypervisor -a very thin layer between the running VM and the real hardware. Xen uses a control domain called dom0 to manage the unprivileged guest domains. Basically, as long as the hypervisor and Xen tools support the kernel you are trying to boot, you are in with a good chance of getting it all working. Upgrading VMs can be a pain regardless of the virtualisation technology you use. For VPS use many of us also mount rescue CDs in our guests to allow customers to fix any mess they get themselves into. Depending on your environment this can either be a graphical CD or a live CD with console access. The xen console works well and access to the VM''s boot menu is easy. Separation of VM resource utilisation in xen is very good -CPU and RAM is excellent, network and disk I/O is a little harder to accomplish but still usable. The most difficult part is getting yourself setup with a stable xen host. Older xen versions come with RHEL/CentOS and debian (these are lacking latest features but are known to be stable and dependable). Xen Cloud Platform is a promising open source xen appliance distribution. We haven''t moved our domUs to it yet as it is still early days for that projecy, IMHO, but it looks very good indeed. Good luck, Matt. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Tapas Mishra
2010-Sep-08 03:16 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Considering Xen for Ubuntu VPS environment
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Matthew Law <matt@webcontracts.co.uk> wrote:> > On Thu, September 2, 2010 8:36 pm, Michael Lueck wrote: >> Oh, so does Xen indeed use the official Ubuntu kernel, or does the kernel >> come from Xen and happens to work with Ubuntu?Try to use CentOS your life will be quite easy. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users