Hi, I want to set up a new dual core machine capable of serving two users at the same time. I have chosen a mainboard with onboard pcie graphic and another pcie card in the slot (the board can use both) One mouse/keyboard on ps/2 and one over usb. Onboard sound + one pci sound. One domU would be linux, the other windows xp... Will this be possible or even practical? I tried to find things about multi user xen setups but I had no luck so far :( Thanks Alex -- PGP-Key: http://thiem-net.de/misc/pubkey.asc PGP-Key-ID: 0xA3C7D788 PGP-Fingerprint: B10A 947D 76BD 09E8 3F1A 2FA1 5902 87EA A3C7 D788 _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Hi Alexander, as I want to set up a similar system, I would be interested on your hardware details. Specially the MB, because the one I chose (ASUS M2NPV-MX) isn''t able to set up the onboard and the PCIe graphic adapter simultaneously. I just can use either the onboard one or the PCIe one, depnding on what I set up in the BIOS. Regards Andreas Alexander Thiem wrote:> Hi, > > I want to set up a new dual core machine capable of serving two users at > the same time. > I have chosen a mainboard with onboard pcie graphic and another pcie > card in the slot (the board can use both) > One mouse/keyboard on ps/2 and one over usb. > Onboard sound + one pci sound. > One domU would be linux, the other windows xp... > > Will this be possible or even practical? > > I tried to find things about multi user xen setups but I had no luck so > far :( > > Thanks > Alex > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> I would be interested on your hardware details.Mainboard will be a Gigabyte GA-965G-DS3[1]. I do not have it here yet but the handbook shows a BIOS option - ''onboard graphic when no pcie card'' or ''always''. [1] http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2361 -- PGP-Key: http://thiem-net.de/misc/pubkey.asc PGP-Key-ID: 0xA3C7D788 PGP-Fingerprint: B10A 947D 76BD 09E8 3F1A 2FA1 5902 87EA A3C7 D788 _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 12 Dec 2006 at 19:59, Alexander Thiem wrote:> Hi, > > I want to set up a new dual core machine capable of serving two users at > the same time.;-) Just FYI: Back in ''93 or so I had 15 users working on a 33MHz 486 PC with 10MB RAM. They were all using Emacs, and a compiler. Today you can''t even install with 64MB RAM.> I have chosen a mainboard with onboard pcie graphic and another pcie > card in the slot (the board can use both) > One mouse/keyboard on ps/2 and one over usb. > Onboard sound + one pci sound. > One domU would be linux, the other windows xp... > > Will this be possible or even practical? > > I tried to find things about multi user xen setups but I had no luck so > far :(While a remote Linux user won''t probably realuze the machine is only virtual, I''m nor sure about the remote Windows user. Windows users are used to work local. So your two users are not further than 1m awy from the server, one running linux, the other Windows? Why not give everyone his own PC? In the setup here about 40 users work with a virtual server via network (more such servers on one hardware), and they are hundereds of meters away. They have never touched or seen the physical server... Regards, Ulrich _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> ;-) Just FYI: Back in ''93 or so I had 15 users working on a 33MHz 486 PC with 10MB > RAM. They were all using Emacs, and a compiler. Today you can''t even install with > 64MB RAM.Good old days ;p> Why not give everyone his own PC? > ... > In the setup here about 40 usersI''m talking about an at-home solution with two users in one living room complaining about two noisy machines running all the time when just one machine (whith a faster but more economical cpu) could serve both. Right now there are no demands for 3D acceleration or such, just in case anybody wants to warn me ;) But I hope to see 3D in the future... _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
thanks. The bad news for me is that the MB you are looking for is for Intel CPU. I already have an Athlon. Anyway it would be interesting to see a success story about your setup. Regards Andreas Alexander Thiem wrote:>> I would be interested on your hardware details. >> > > Mainboard will be a Gigabyte GA-965G-DS3[1]. I do not have it here yet > but the handbook shows a BIOS option - ''onboard graphic when no pcie > card'' or ''always''. > > > > [1] > http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2361 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Andreas Fromm wrote:> Anyway it would be interesting to see a > success story about your setup.So would I ;) _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com > [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of > Ulrich Windl > Sent: 13 December 2006 08:24 > To: xen-users > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Multi user/seat setup question > > On 12 Dec 2006 at 19:59, Alexander Thiem wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I want to set up a new dual core machine capable of serving > two users at > > the same time. > > ;-) Just FYI: Back in ''93 or so I had 15 users working on a > 33MHz 486 PC with 10MB > RAM. They were all using Emacs, and a compiler. Today you > can''t even install with > 64MB RAM.Of course you can - but only if you install an ANCIENT version of some operating system - OS/2 1.x-3.x or Linux 2.2 for example would work... Not that you can even BUY 64MB of RAM anymore (at least not from regular retailers).> > > I have chosen a mainboard with onboard pcie graphic and another pcie > > card in the slot (the board can use both) > > One mouse/keyboard on ps/2 and one over usb. > > Onboard sound + one pci sound. > > One domU would be linux, the other windows xp...As been said earlier - the PCIe bus may not allow both the builtin graphics and the external one at the same time - even if you can set the builtin one to take priority over the external one, doesn''t mean that BOTH will work at the same time. Check that BEFORE you buy the machine. On the keyboard/mouse front, you''ll need to give the entire USB device to the guest OS - which in turn means that it''s limited to using Para-virtual Linux, since HVM doesn''t support PCI passthrough now or in the near foreseeable future. This means that you either have to have more than one distinct USB device on the system, or you''ll loose the USB capability on the PS/2 keyboard side. -- Mats _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> As been said earlier - the PCIe bus may not allow both the builtin > graphics and the external one at the same time - even if you can set the > builtin one to take priority over the external one, doesn''t mean that > BOTH will work at the same time. Check that BEFORE you buy the machine.The bios manual tells me this should be possible - so I hope for it...> This means that you either have to have > more than one distinct USB device on the system, or you''ll loose the USB > capability on the PS/2 keyboard side.The mainboard should at least have two usb hubs/chips. So I could pass one to the linux system and one to the windows side. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Thiem [mailto:Alexander@Thiem-net.de] > Sent: 13 December 2006 11:58 > To: Petersson, Mats > Cc: xen-users > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Multi user/seat setup question > > > As been said earlier - the PCIe bus may not allow both the builtin > > graphics and the external one at the same time - even if > you can set the > > builtin one to take priority over the external one, doesn''t > mean that > > BOTH will work at the same time. Check that BEFORE you buy > the machine. > > The bios manual tells me this should be possible - so I hope for it... > > > This means that you either have to have > > more than one distinct USB device on the system, or you''ll > loose the USB > > capability on the PS/2 keyboard side. > > The mainboard should at least have two usb hubs/chips. > So I could pass one to the linux system and one to the windows side.Well, you can''t use the USB inside windows anyways, as you can''t give PCI devices to Windows, as Windows is a HVM domain and currently doesn''t supoort PCI passthrough - this has to do with the fact that you either need dedicated "Virtual-aware" drivers or you need to have an IOMMU - neither of which are in existance today [you''ll also need some code somewhere that lists the PCI devices to the Windows domain - probably about two days worth of work, so trivial compared to comming up with the IOMMU hardware or virtual-aware drivers]. -- Mats> > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> Well, you can''t use the USB inside windows anywaysSo I have no chance to get any pci device working in windows? :( _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Thiem [mailto:Alexander@Thiem-net.de] > Sent: 13 December 2006 12:11 > To: Petersson, Mats > Cc: xen-users > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Multi user/seat setup question > > > Well, you can''t use the USB inside windows anyways > > So I have no chance to get any pci device working in windows? :(In short: no! -- Mats> > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> In short: no!Hmpf... so I have to switch over to a linux-only setup. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
JHJE (Jan Holst Jensen)
2006-Dec-13 14:51 UTC
RE: [Xen-users] OT: "Grumpy old men" thinking back on the good ol'' days [was: Multi user/seat setup question]
> > ;-) Just FYI: Back in ''93 or so I had 15 users working on a > > 33MHz 486 PC with 10MB > > RAM. They were all using Emacs, and a compiler. Today you > > can''t even install with 64MB RAM. > > Of course you can - but only if you install an ANCIENT version of some > operating system - OS/2 1.x-3.x or Linux 2.2 for example would work... > Not that you can even BUY 64MB of RAM anymore (at least not > from regular retailers).Well, I can boot a Debian Sarge under xen with 20 MB of RAM running a 2.6.16 kernel so that is hardly ancient (see below). 16 MB fails to boot the kernel with an out-of-memory. The instance with 20 MB starts to swap as soon as I start e.g. samba, but if you give a domain 32 MB it should trundle along just fine. Guess that 32 should be enough on a physical machine as well then (you probably loose a few megabytes to device drivers on real iron). Don''t know if any current installers will work on 32 MB though. Didn''t mean to make this into a contest or something. I am just a "grumpy old man" thinking that Wirth''s law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law) is one of the most substantiated observations in computer science :-) - along with Murphy''s that is. Cheers -- Jan Holst Jensen, Denmark INIT: Entering runlevel: 2 Starting system log daemon: syslogd. Starting kernel log daemon: klogd. Starting MTA: exim4. Starting internet superserver: inetd. Starting OpenBSD Secure Shell server: sshd. Starting deferred execution scheduler: atd. Starting periodic command scheduler: cron. Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 debian-template tty1 debian-template login: root [bla bla bla] debian-template:~# free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 20660 19260 1400 0 556 7944 -/+ buffers/cache: 10760 9900 Swap: 1023992 0 1023992 debian-template:~# _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Alexander Thiem wrote:>> This means that you either have to have >> more than one distinct USB device on the system, or you''ll loose the USB >> capability on the PS/2 keyboard side. > > The mainboard should at least have two usb hubs/chips. > So I could pass one to the linux system and one to the windows side.Ignoring the troubles with passing pci-ish stuff to HVM (which others have covered): I (still) want to do this sort of thing, but with older hardware (PCI :). The problem I''ve found with USB is that the boards we''ve been looking at using all have a single PCI device for all USB. Our ''fix'' is currently putting a PCI USB card in as well, which has its own device. -- Regards, Julian Davison, ICT Technician Christchurch Boys'' High School http://www.cbhs.school.nz/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Alexander Thiem wrote:>> In short: no! > > Hmpf... so I have to switch over to a linux-only setup.Only if you want USB :) Otherwise you use the dom0 X to connect to the SDL screen of your HVM Windows :) -- Julian Davison Note: 1) This may have come from an address @cbhs.school.nz but isn''t necessarily the (or even an) official view of Christchurch Boys'' High School 2) While replying to this address may get into my mailbox it will almost certainly be filtered into a mailing list folder. To actually reach actual me, strip off the bit after the ''-'' in the name. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Julian Davison wrote:> Otherwise you use the dom0 X to connect to the SDL > screen of your HVM Windows :)Is it possible to connect a usb mass storage device to the host, dom0 grabs it with hotplug and can pass through sda1 to the HVM? Is this possible while the windows guest is running? I guess not... -- PGP-Key: http://thiem-net.de/misc/pubkey.asc PGP-Key-ID: 0xA3C7D788 PGP-Fingerprint: B10A 947D 76BD 09E8 3F1A 2FA1 5902 87EA A3C7 D788 _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users