Xen users - Dec 2005 - Intel shipping hardware VM CPU''s already... more coming December 27 2005 65nm

Looks like a Happy New Year is coming for running Windows on Xen!

As discussed recently in this thread:
http://lists.xensource.com/archives/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=xen-users&i=E4D4F968E9F97F45B21B72BDCAD8E1B8EA48E5%40dilithium8.groupe-ecritel.ecritel.net

Dell has been shipping Xeon server CPUs that support VT.  I was
tempted to order, but the noise, heat, and power consumption is too
much.

The BIG NEWS is that next week desktop single and dual core CPUs are
supposed to be available.  The Intel Pentium D 9xx (65nm) series is
supposed to be available on December 27, 2005 and rumors say that the
new laptop chipset could be announced at CES in Vegas (January 6,
2006)... with some vendors ready to ship very soon.

Here is a thread I started on Tom''s Hardware forums to try and track
down resellers who will be the first to ship the new CPU''s: 
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Help-locate-Intel-CPU-VT-capable-9xx-65nm-week-ftopict169708.html

The Intel 955X Chipset is supposed to support the new chips, and Abit
already has a motherboard with a BIOS update (2 days ago) that says it
supports the new chips.

This is an exciting time for Xen!


Discussion
==============Ok, so how pratical is it to run Windows XP under VT?  Can you use
standard ATI or Nvidia drivers on a Intel 955X chipset motherboard
(PCI Express, not AGP)?  What about audio drivers?


  Stephen Gutknecht


P.S.  I have no association with any of the vendors... resellers or
chip producers.  I just want to get in on VT early.

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

My dream desktop will run xen with a linux dom0 for all the network and
storage goodness, and WindowsXP in a domU so I can play all my games.  As I
understand it, a few things need to happen:

1. xen 3 needs to put back the hardware pass through feature so I can pass
through video, sound, usb, and perhaps a few other things.
2. xen 3 needs hardware emulation so Windows can install and boot.
3. As I understand this hardware emulation would be slow, so Windows will
need disk and network drivers that can talk directly to the xen virtual
devices.

Even with xen drivers in Windows, I wonder how much slower disk access will
be.  Some games already take a really long time to load, and I wouldn''t
tolerate a big increase.

Cheers,
Dan.

-----Original Message-----
From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Art Arica3D
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:06 PM
To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Subject: [Xen-users] Intel shipping hardware VM CPU''s already... more
comingDecember 27 2005 65nm

Looks like a Happy New Year is coming for running Windows on Xen!

As discussed recently in this thread:
http://lists.xensource.com/archives/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=xen-users&i=E4D4F968E
9F97F45B21B72BDCAD8E1B8EA48E5%40dilithium8.groupe-ecritel.ecritel.net

Dell has been shipping Xeon server CPUs that support VT.  I was tempted to
order, but the noise, heat, and power consumption is too much.

The BIG NEWS is that next week desktop single and dual core CPUs are
supposed to be available.  The Intel Pentium D 9xx (65nm) series is supposed
to be available on December 27, 2005 and rumors say that the new laptop
chipset could be announced at CES in Vegas (January 6, 2006)... with some
vendors ready to ship very soon.

Here is a thread I started on Tom''s Hardware forums to try and track
down
resellers who will be the first to ship the new CPU''s: 
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Help-locate-Intel-CPU-VT-capable-9xx
-65nm-week-ftopict169708.html

The Intel 955X Chipset is supposed to support the new chips, and Abit
already has a motherboard with a BIOS update (2 days ago) that says it
supports the new chips.

This is an exciting time for Xen!


Discussion
==============Ok, so how pratical is it to run Windows XP under VT?  Can you use
standard
ATI or Nvidia drivers on a Intel 955X chipset motherboard (PCI Express, not
AGP)?  What about audio drivers?


  Stephen Gutknecht


P.S.  I have no association with any of the vendors... resellers or chip
producers.  I just want to get in on VT early.

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users



_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Be careful ...  Pentium D isent supposed to be VT enabled. Only Xeon Dual
Cores...

Christophe PAINCHAUD


-----Message d''origine-----
De : xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] De la part de Art Arica3D
Envoyé : Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:06 PM
À : xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Objet : [Xen-users] Intel shipping hardware VM CPU''s already... more
coming
December 27 2005 65nm

Looks like a Happy New Year is coming for running Windows on Xen!

As discussed recently in this thread:
http://lists.xensource.com/archives/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=xen-users&i=E4D4F968E
9F97F45B21B72BDCAD8E1B8EA48E5%40dilithium8.groupe-ecritel.ecritel.net

Dell has been shipping Xeon server CPUs that support VT.  I was
tempted to order, but the noise, heat, and power consumption is too
much.

The BIG NEWS is that next week desktop single and dual core CPUs are
supposed to be available.  The Intel Pentium D 9xx (65nm) series is
supposed to be available on December 27, 2005 and rumors say that the
new laptop chipset could be announced at CES in Vegas (January 6,
2006)... with some vendors ready to ship very soon.

Here is a thread I started on Tom''s Hardware forums to try and track
down resellers who will be the first to ship the new CPU''s: 
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Help-locate-Intel-CPU-VT-capable-9xx
-65nm-week-ftopict169708.html

The Intel 955X Chipset is supposed to support the new chips, and Abit
already has a motherboard with a BIOS update (2 days ago) that says it
supports the new chips.

This is an exciting time for Xen!


Discussion
==============Ok, so how pratical is it to run Windows XP under VT?  Can you use
standard ATI or Nvidia drivers on a Intel 955X chipset motherboard
(PCI Express, not AGP)?  What about audio drivers?


  Stephen Gutknecht


P.S.  I have no association with any of the vendors... resellers or
chip producers.  I just want to get in on VT early.

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

I suggest you do some reading on the Presler 65nm core that I
mentioned as shipping next week (December 27, 2005).

Intel Pentium D chips: 920, 930, 940, 950 and the 955 Extreme Edition
are all Presler (a pair of "Cedar Mill" cores at 65nm).

The Pentium 4 662 an 672 also support VT and are not Xeon Duals. 
Intel announced these on November 14... Officail announcement:
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20051114comp.htm

Now the 9xx ones aren''t yet "officially announced" but a lot
of
speculation says that they are ready ahead of time and that they will
be ready to purchase on the day they are announced (December 27).

I have not found anyone actually willing to sell the 662 /672 despite
them suppose to be "shipping".   Quote from the Press Release :: 
processor 672 and 662 processors with Intel Virtualization Technology
are available today on systems being offered by Acer, Founder, Lenovo
and TongFang. :: - yha, but no one willing to sell me one :)

Now the 672/662 are still 90nm... I think if intel is indeed ready to
ship the 65nm they are right to downplay the very hot 90nm parts.

The reason I started this thread as I think a LOT of interested people
don''t realize that these things are HERE, and NOW!!  And xen already
has support in 3.0 series.

  Stephen Gutknecht

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Daniel Goertzen wrote:
> My dream desktop will run xen with a linux dom0 for all the network and
> storage goodness, and WindowsXP in a domU so I can play all my games.  As I
> understand it, a few things need to happen:
[...]
> Even with xen drivers in Windows, I wonder how much slower disk access will
> be.  Some games already take a really long time to load, and I
wouldn''t
> tolerate a big increase.
Just exactly what does Xen has to with gaming? It''s obviously
meant for servers - which is exactly where the development effort
should be focused.

Try VMWare or Wine, those are more desktop-oriented (though the latter
isn''t exactly a virtualization system).

-- 
   Taneli Leppä         | Crasman Co Ltd
   <taneli@crasman.fi>  | <http://www.crasman.fi/>

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

My fault, I''ve got a Pentium D here (sorry dunno what model :/) and it
looks
like Xen can''t see the VT support. In fact I don''t know what
Xen is going to
say if it sees a VT enabled CPU, I will receive a VT enabled Dell next week,
so I am going to compare.

Now what I need is a little tutorial to install a Windows domU

Christophe PAINCHAUD


-----Message d''origine-----
De : Art Arica3D [mailto:nikicart@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : Thursday, December 22, 2005 12:41 AM
À : PAINCHAUD Christophe
Cc : xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Objet : Re: [Xen-users] Intel shipping hardware VM CPU''s already...
more
coming December 27 2005 65nm

I suggest you do some reading on the Presler 65nm core that I
mentioned as shipping next week (December 27, 2005).

Intel Pentium D chips: 920, 930, 940, 950 and the 955 Extreme Edition
are all Presler (a pair of "Cedar Mill" cores at 65nm).

The Pentium 4 662 an 672 also support VT and are not Xeon Duals. 
Intel announced these on November 14... Officail announcement:
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20051114comp.htm

Now the 9xx ones aren''t yet "officially announced" but a lot
of
speculation says that they are ready ahead of time and that they will
be ready to purchase on the day they are announced (December 27).

I have not found anyone actually willing to sell the 662 /672 despite
them suppose to be "shipping".   Quote from the Press Release :: 
processor 672 and 662 processors with Intel Virtualization Technology
are available today on systems being offered by Acer, Founder, Lenovo
and TongFang. :: - yha, but no one willing to sell me one :)

Now the 672/662 are still 90nm... I think if intel is indeed ready to
ship the 65nm they are right to downplay the very hot 90nm parts.

The reason I started this thread as I think a LOT of interested people
don''t realize that these things are HERE, and NOW!!  And xen already
has support in 3.0 series.

  Stephen Gutknecht


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Taneli Leppä wrote:
> Daniel Goertzen wrote:
>
>> My dream desktop will run xen with a linux dom0 for all the network and
>> storage goodness, and WindowsXP in a domU so I can play all my 
>> games.  As I
>> understand it, a few things need to happen:
>
> [...]
>
>> Even with xen drivers in Windows, I wonder how much slower disk 
>> access will
>> be.  Some games already take a really long time to load, and I
wouldn''t
>> tolerate a big increase.
>
>
> Just exactly what does Xen has to with gaming? It''s obviously
> meant for servers - which is exactly where the development effort
> should be focused.
>
> Try VMWare or Wine, those are more desktop-oriented (though the latter
> isn''t exactly a virtualization system).
>
Well for one thing almost all benchmark tests include quake3 fps 
somewhere :-)




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Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

>> My dream desktop will run xen with a linux dom0 for all the network 
>> and storage goodness, and WindowsXP in a domU so I can play all my 
>> games.  As I understand it, a few things need to happen:
[...]
>> Even with xen drivers in Windows, I wonder how much slower disk access 
>> will be.  Some games already take a really long time to load, and I 
>> wouldn''t tolerate a big increase.
>
>Just exactly what does Xen has to with gaming? It''s obviously meant
for
servers - which is >exactly where the development effort should be
focused.
>
>Try VMWare or Wine, those are more desktop-oriented (though the latter
isn''t exactly a >virtualization system).

Yes, servers are the primary focus for xen, but it is very interesting for
the home enthusiast too.  For example, you could build an ultra quiet
diskless Windows system using a linux dom0 that provides a network block
device to a Windows domU.  BTW, I don''t see anything extra that a
desktop/gaming machine would need out of xen that isn''t needed for
server
use.  All the things I listed were already in roadmaps and xen
presentations.

Cheers,
Dan.


_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users

Daniel Goertzen wrote:
>Yes, servers are the primary focus for xen, but it is very interesting for
>the home enthusiast too.  For example, you could build an ultra quiet
>diskless Windows system using a linux dom0 that provides a network block
>device to a Windows domU.  BTW, I don''t see anything extra that a
>desktop/gaming machine would need out of xen that isn''t needed for
server
>use.  All the things I listed were already in roadmaps and xen
>presentations.
>  
>
3d acceleration virtualization.

The emulated VGA device provides no acceleration virtualization at all 
so games are going to run terribly slowly.  Jacob Hansen has been doing 
some cool gl 3d paravirtualization but that wouldn''t help for running 
games in Windows.

FWIW, the latest versions of VMware provide 3d acceleration 
virtualization for Windows guests (even under a Linux host).

Regards,

Anthony Liguori
>Cheers,
>Dan.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Xen-users mailing list
>Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
>  
>

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