Andreas Florath
2009-Aug-18 17:47 UTC
[Xen-devel] Suggestion: drop python 2.3 support for xen-3.5
Hello!
I suggest dropping python 2.3 support for xen-3.5.
Major Reason:
o Functionality / Libraries are missing:
Example: for a new feature I''m working on a
''working'' base64
encoding and decoding is needed. The one which comes with
python 2.3 is not usable. There is the possibility to copy
over the 2.4ff implementation into the Xen source tree or
to implement this functionality (again). IMHO both ways
are not sensible.
Additional minor ones:
o Syntactic sugar is missing; e.g.:
@staticmethod must be expressed by
''function_name = staticmethod(function_name)''
The first makes the code more readable.
o ''try: except: finally:'' construct is missing in python 2.3
This can be rewritten using ''try: { try: except: }
finally:'' but this is
not really nice.
Rational:
o Only very old distributions use python versions less than 2.4.
And IMHO those old versions will never update to xen-3.5. Typically
the enterprise distributions (like RHEL or SLES) will stay at the
same (major) version for each package during the life cycle of the
distribution''s release.
[For me it looks that only a very few people running old systems with
xen-3.5. I exchanged some EMails with Isaku Yamahata and
KUWAMURA Shin''ya (from FUJITSU) - and even those told me that they
are planing to update in near future or even started to update.]
I read an earlier discussion about this [1], but things are getting more
difficult to use only python 2.3 functionality...
Additionally it makes sense (and IMHO it is important) to have a kind
of roadmap which python version is supported in which release of Xen.
At some point it must be decided, how to deal with python 3. AFAIK
there is a smooth migration path to 3.X from 2.6 only - not
from 2.4 or 2.5
So a support matrix might look like:
Xen | Supported Python Versions
----+---------------------------
3.4 | 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6
3.5 | 2.4 2.5 2.6
3.6 | 2.5 2.6
3.7 | 2.6 3.1
4.0 | 3.1 3.2
(Of course starting with Xen 3.6 this is only for illustration.)
Kind regards
Andreas
[1] http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2009-05/msg01331.html
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Jan Beulich
2009-Aug-19 07:01 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Suggestion: drop python 2.3 support for xen-3.5
I''m definitely against dropping compatibility in a way like this, as it would mean that I can''t use the Xen tools anymore on most of my development/ test systems (SLE10 - and no, I''m not in any way considering installing newer Python there, as that will make it impossible to get other possible issues resolved on these systems, as I''ll always be asked to first restore the "stock" state of the machine). Jan>>> Andreas Florath <xen@flonatel.org> 18.08.09 19:47 >>>Hello! I suggest dropping python 2.3 support for xen-3.5. Major Reason: o Functionality / Libraries are missing: Example: for a new feature I''m working on a ''working'' base64 encoding and decoding is needed. The one which comes with python 2.3 is not usable. There is the possibility to copy over the 2.4ff implementation into the Xen source tree or to implement this functionality (again). IMHO both ways are not sensible. Additional minor ones: o Syntactic sugar is missing; e.g.: @staticmethod must be expressed by ''function_name = staticmethod(function_name)'' The first makes the code more readable. o ''try: except: finally:'' construct is missing in python 2.3 This can be rewritten using ''try: { try: except: } finally:'' but this is not really nice. Rational: o Only very old distributions use python versions less than 2.4. And IMHO those old versions will never update to xen-3.5. Typically the enterprise distributions (like RHEL or SLES) will stay at the same (major) version for each package during the life cycle of the distribution''s release. [For me it looks that only a very few people running old systems with xen-3.5. I exchanged some EMails with Isaku Yamahata and KUWAMURA Shin''ya (from FUJITSU) - and even those told me that they are planing to update in near future or even started to update.] I read an earlier discussion about this [1], but things are getting more difficult to use only python 2.3 functionality... Additionally it makes sense (and IMHO it is important) to have a kind of roadmap which python version is supported in which release of Xen. At some point it must be decided, how to deal with python 3. AFAIK there is a smooth migration path to 3.X from 2.6 only - not from 2.4 or 2.5 So a support matrix might look like: Xen | Supported Python Versions ----+--------------------------- 3.4 | 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 3.5 | 2.4 2.5 2.6 3.6 | 2.5 2.6 3.7 | 2.6 3.1 4.0 | 3.1 3.2 (Of course starting with Xen 3.6 this is only for illustration.) Kind regards Andreas [1] http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2009-05/msg01331.html _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
xen@flonatel.org
2009-Aug-19 10:20 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Suggestion: drop python 2.3 support for xen-3.5
Hello! Sorry - but I do not fully understand you. What do you mean with ''in a way like this''? My mail is a try to establish a long term overview over supported python versions. This gives everybody a chance to do long term planing when to upgrade to a new version. It was not meant to be ''everybody has to update in the next couple of weeks''. What is your idea about future python support and timelines? Do you think e.g. python 2.2 should be supported in xen-3.5 also? (In one of the documents this version is still mentioned.) [Are you running xen-unstable on a production environment? I also do not understand: when you currently run xen unstable, why do you concern about support? You are already miles out of the support line. :-) So when you are asked to ''restore the "stock" state'' you also remove xen unstable?] SLES 10 comes with python 2.4 (Service Pack 2 uses 2.4.2). SLES runs out of ''General Support'' on 31 Jul 2013 [1] - at this point of time you should think about updating. And SLES 11 comes already with python 2.6. Can I interpret your answer as: dropping python 2.3 support is ok for you, but python 2.4 must be supported for at least a couple of years? Regards Andreas [1] http://support.novell.com/lifecycle/lcSearchResults.jsp?st=-1&sl=-1&sg=1 _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Jan Beulich
2009-Aug-19 10:36 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Suggestion: drop python 2.3 support for xen-3.5
>>> <xen@flonatel.org> 19.08.09 12:20 >>> >What is your idea about future python support and timelines? Do >you think e.g. python 2.2 should be supported in xen-3.5 also? >(In one of the documents this version is still mentioned.)If any actively supported distro still uses it - yes.>[Are you running xen-unstable on a production environment?No, in a development env.>I also do not understand: when you currently run xen unstable, why do >you concern about support? You are already miles out of the support >line. :-)No, since I don''t remove/replace the Xen version that comes with the distro, but run various Xen versions side by side. I have severe doubts that this is possible with Python (even with Xen it''s not as simple as it ought to be - just see how easy it is to run different kernel versions on the same box all underneath the same single distro).>So when you are asked to ''restore the "stock" state'' you also remove >xen unstable?]As per above - no.>SLES 10 comes with python 2.4 (Service Pack 2 uses 2.4.2). SLES runs out >of ''General Support'' on 31 Jul 2013 [1] - at this point of time you >should think about updating. And SLES 11 comes already with python 2.6. > >Can I interpret your answer as: dropping python 2.3 support is ok for >you, but python 2.4 must be supported for at least a couple of years?Not really - I''d still like to be able to also run Xen on my one remaining SLES9 box (until SLES9 goes out of support), which uses 2.3.3. Jan _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Andreas Florath
2009-Aug-19 16:52 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Suggestion: drop python 2.3 support for xen-3.5
Hello!>>>> <xen@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 19.08.09 12:20 >>> >> What is your idea about future python support and timelines? Do >> you think e.g. python 2.2 should be supported in xen-3.5 also? >> (In one of the documents this version is still mentioned.) > > If any actively supported distro still uses it - yes.That''s a very strange argumentation: So you think if there is somewhere in the world somebody who supports a distribution for the next 20 years which uses python 2.2 Xen has to support python 2.2 for this time? (I cannot really believe that you think this...)> No, since I don''t remove/replace the Xen version that comes with the > distro, but run various Xen versions side by side. I have severe doubts > that this is possible with Python [...]lenny$ ls -l /usr/bin/python2.? -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1053228 17. Feb 2009 /usr/bin/python2.4 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1174292 17. Feb 2009 /usr/bin/python2.5>> [Are you running xen-unstable on a production environment? > > No, in a development env.>> SLES 10 comes with python 2.4 (Service Pack 2 uses 2.4.2). SLES runs out >> of ''General Support'' on 31 Jul 2013 [1] - at this point of time you >> should think about updating. And SLES 11 comes already with python 2.6. >> >> Can I interpret your answer as: dropping python 2.3 support is ok for >> you, but python 2.4 must be supported for at least a couple of years?> Not really - I''d still like to be able to also run Xen on my one > remaining SLES9 > box (until SLES9 goes out of support), which uses 2.3.3.To be sure that I get this correct: you are developing for xen-unstable on a SLES9 box? Are you planning to go in production with this? Where do you get support from? And: you like to run Xen unstable on SLES9 but you don''t want to upgrade and you think (because you like it) this is a reason why python 2.3 support should not be dropped for Xen unstable? Kind regards Andreas _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
tamull@gmx.net
2009-Aug-20 10:37 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Suggestion: drop python 2.3 support for xen-3.5
I think the idea to have a compatibility matrix is a good one. The arguments for supporting rather old Python versions seems strange to me. What is the benefit if the according XEN versions are not supported on the distros in question anyway? The reasoning sounds artificial, or is there any point which was not stated explicitly??? -------- Original-Nachricht --------> Datum: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:52:17 +0200 > Von: Andreas Florath <xen@flonatel.org> > An: Jan Beulich <JBeulich@novell.com> > CC: xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > Betreff: Re: [Xen-devel] Suggestion: drop python 2.3 support for xen-3.5> Hello! > > >>>> <xen@xxxxxxxxxxxx> 19.08.09 12:20 >>> > >> What is your idea about future python support and timelines? Do > >> you think e.g. python 2.2 should be supported in xen-3.5 also? > >> (In one of the documents this version is still mentioned.) > > > > If any actively supported distro still uses it - yes. > > That''s a very strange argumentation: So you think if there is > somewhere in the world somebody who supports a distribution for the > next 20 years which uses python 2.2 Xen has to support python 2.2 for > this time? (I cannot really believe that you think this...) > > > > No, since I don''t remove/replace the Xen version that comes with the > > distro, but run various Xen versions side by side. I have severe doubts > > that this is possible with Python [...] > > lenny$ ls -l /usr/bin/python2.? > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1053228 17. Feb 2009 /usr/bin/python2.4 > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1174292 17. Feb 2009 /usr/bin/python2.5 > > > >> [Are you running xen-unstable on a production environment? > > > > No, in a development env. > > >> SLES 10 comes with python 2.4 (Service Pack 2 uses 2.4.2). SLES runs > out > >> of ''General Support'' on 31 Jul 2013 [1] - at this point of time you > >> should think about updating. And SLES 11 comes already with python 2.6. > >> > >> Can I interpret your answer as: dropping python 2.3 support is ok for > >> you, but python 2.4 must be supported for at least a couple of years? > > > Not really - I''d still like to be able to also run Xen on my one > > remaining SLES9 > > box (until SLES9 goes out of support), which uses 2.3.3. > > To be sure that I get this correct: you are developing for xen-unstable on > a > SLES9 box? Are you planning to go in production with this? Where do you > get > support from? > And: you like to run Xen unstable on SLES9 but you don''t want to upgrade > and > you think (because you like it) this is a reason why python 2.3 support > should not be dropped for Xen unstable? > > Kind regards > > Andreas > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-devel mailing list > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel-- <html><head> <title>DEREFER</title> <META HTTP-EQUIV="REFRESH" CONTENT="0; URL=http://www.gmx.net/de/?status=hinweis"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" link="#666666" vlink="#666666"> <table width="100%" height="100%" border="0"><tr><td align="center"><a href="http://www.gmx.net/de/?status=hinweis"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#666666">Einen Moment bitte, die angeforderte Seite wird geladen...</font></a></td></tr></table> </body></html> Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser -- <html><head> <title>DEREFER</title> <META HTTP-EQUIV="REFRESH" CONTENT="0; URL=http://www.gmx.net/de/?status=hinweis"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" link="#666666" vlink="#666666"> <table width="100%" height="100%" border="0"><tr><td align="center"><a href="http://www.gmx.net/de/?status=hinweis"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#666666">Einen Moment bitte, die angeforderte Seite wird geladen...</font></a></td></tr></table> </body></html> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel