After being on this list for years, mostly as a lurker and sometime participant, I find that due specifically to the new changes in list membership via the forums that it's time for me to unsubscribe. While I think it's a very healthy in the long run to have more folks participating in Wine's growth I also find the quality of the emails coming across my desk to be significantly less technically interesting than they have historically been. The message content showing up now generally doesn't have any quoted information and is only a response to some discussion in the forum. If I haven't saved the whole thread in GMail then it becomes pointless to try and help or even figure out what the discussion is about. None of this implies that linking the forums to this list is wrong. It isn't. It's just wrong for me. And while I think it's great that there are more messages on the list some things, such as the value of the list, cannot be measured in raw numbers. I wish everyone the best of luck. I'll continue to use Wine. Maybe I'll even become a forum user in an attempt to both help out once in awhile as well as ask a question from time to time. Best wishes, Mark
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: John Drescher <drescherjm at gmail.com> Date: Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Wine] After years - goodbye to Wine-Users To: Mark Knecht <markknecht at gmail.com>> If I haven't saved the whole thread> in GMail then it becomes pointless to try and help or even figure out > what the discussion is about. > With gmail I just never delete (unless spam). All of the wine messages go to my wine folder and I clear out the inbox every time I check my mail with archive. John -- John M. Drescher
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht at gmail.com> wrote:> > On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 2:06 PM, John Drescher <drescherjm at gmail.com> wrote: > > > If I haven't saved the whole thread > > > in GMail then it becomes pointless to try and help or even figure out > > > what the discussion is about. > > > > > With gmail I just never delete (unless spam). All of the wine messages > > go to my wine folder and I clear out the inbox every time I check my > > mail with archive. > > > > John > > > Hi John, > Yeah, but I already have 4GB of email in my GMail account and I've > been reluctant to let it grow further even though they allow 6+GB now. >I see. I am only at the 1.1 GB point right now...> > After all, it isn't like I can't participate. I'll just look at the > forums once in awhile. In the meantime I won't have to deal with so > much silly noise. To me the value of forums is that they don't invade > your life. Folks who like participating that way look when they are > interested. On the other hand folks who want to be on an email list > generally like to stay informed. I've always used my Linux lists > almost like a news source. Now I'll have to go get my news instead of > having it delivered to my doorstep. To me that's a step backwards but > preferable in this case. >I find it annoying/awkward that the two are linked as well in the current form. Perhaps this will improve over time. John
DARKGuy wrote:> > I, however, find it a silly decision to make. I don't see what's the > big issue about it. >We each get to make our own decisions. You have a right to think it's 'silly'. I have a right to think your thinking it 'silly' is 'insensitive'. (I don't, by the way, think it's insensitive. I'm just making a point.) <SNIP> DARKGuy wrote:> > You seem to be unsatisfied at the "lack of techy-ness" of the emails. > Well, let me remember you that this is wine-USERS. >Not at all. I'm unsatisfied with the link to the forums this list has lost focus on the topic. I'm not saying it's gone, I'm saying the focus has decreased. That may change and hopefully improve over time. I hope it does. But for now it's not worth my time receiving *every* comment made in the forums with the hope of weeding out one or two that I might be able to comment on. DARKGuy wrote:> > "Oh, I'm too elitist, wine-users isn't for me because of the noobs" is > what your email said to me in a few words. Not with intentions to be > offensive, in fact it was very polite :), but you know, it's a downer. >I most certainly NEVER said that. I was very polite, purposely so. If you read anything into what I wrote then that's you, not me. Heck, I'm a noob, when compared to Dan, vitamin, Tom W and many, many others. I am someone who has used Wine off and on for years and figure (Hope? Pray?) I have something to offer. However life is a trade off and if the forums are going to be so free form as to allow anything be written down AND if the linkage is going to put EVERY comment made in the forums into my in-box without any context and leave it to me to find it then I don't need it simply because I know myself and I won't read the messages and try hard enough to make a difference. DARKGuy wrote:> > I sincerely hope you can re-think your decision and, instead, help > improve the mailing list's quality (and the emails too) by helping the > new users.I will not. That decision is made, at least for now. I'll watch the forums over time and see if it becomes more worth my time to rejoin the list. Should someone decide to split the two again I'd be back pretty much immediately. I figure the noobs ALWAYS had the opportunity to join the list, if they wanted to. This was a decision taken from on high that does have a downside at least to some of us, but certainly not all. Oh, by the way, if it's not clear I AM responding FROM the forums where I hope I can still help a little. I may be the first person to have quit the list and moved to the forum. I'm not happy about that. Messing with all this quoting took too much time. Unfortunately for those who I might possibly be able to help this will mean I might try to help 1 person once a week instead of trying to help 1-3 people every day. That's the downside of this linkage. But hey - at least I'm a forum member! I'll read some threads here and maybe I'll get to like it. Who know? I've talked to a couple of folks that just quit completely. I don't intend to do that. No need to since the forums don't insert themselves forcibly into my life. Cheers, Mark