Dear all, I would like to know whether it is possible to use any DRM scheme with Ogg-Vorbis ? My idea would be to distribute music commercially and be able guarantee to artists that they won't be copied freely. Thanks for your advice. Regards, Ulrich ulrich@bbtest.roxr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis/attachments/20060213/112ef81b/attachment.htm
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Ulrich,<br> I've struggled with the same question over the last couple of years while launching my music store, the Ogg Cafe, and have come to the conclusion that people will buy what they perceive to have value.<br> In this case, I have decided to promote tracks and some whole albums in ogg vorbis with a quality of -q8 and a sample rate of 48khz. These tracks would sell for .10 to .12cents US per megabyte and would have the URL to the store in the tags. Then I would offer, for free, the very same track at -q0, 44khz. I want to give potential buyers a sign that I do not consider them to be crooks. I want to be able to control downloads, but not the copying, based on my belief that people want to do good and to be honest.<br> Not to appear Pollyannaish, I know that there are some folks who would steal like a bandit if not watched, but I think that in monitoring downloads, I can curtail as best I can that sort of behavior.<br> -Ken<br> <a href="http://www.oggcafe.com">http://www.oggcafe.com</a><br> <br> <br> <br> Ulrich wrote: <blockquote cite="midD3813052-5DAC-4CBB-8DE9-FD4A3C4811A1@bbtest.roxr.com" type="cite">Dear all, <div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <div>I would like to know whether it is possible to use any DRM scheme with Ogg-Vorbis ?</div> <div>My idea would be to distribute music commercially and be able guarantee to artists that they won't be copied freely.</div> <div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <div>Thanks for your advice.</div> <div>Regards,</div> <div><br> <div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Gill Sans; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"> <div><b style="font-weight: bold;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: bold;">Ulrich</span></b></div> <div><a href="mailto:ulrich@bbtest.roxr.com">ulrich@bbtest.roxr.com</a></div> <div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"> </div> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </span> </div> <br> </div> <pre wrap=""> <hr size="4" width="90%"> _______________________________________________ Vorbis mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Vorbis@xiph.org">Vorbis@xiph.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/vorbis">http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/vorbis</a> </pre> <pre wrap=""> <hr size="4" width="90%"> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.6/257 - Release Date: 2/10/06 </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>
DRM only harms the paying customer. If people want the music for free they will just download Limewire and get it without DRM. The people who actually fork over some cash will be the ones who have to deal with the problems created by DRM. I know many consumers don't mind leasing music from ITMS, but that is probably because they don't understand what they are buying (or aren't buying). I'd be all for purchasing music in Vorbis, but I will tell you that releasing DRM'd music in Vorbis seems counter-intuitive. If you really want to do DRM use a codec that has it built-in already, that players already support. Artists sell CDs even though they are completely unprotected. Sure some people will copy, but using DRM won't really stop that. Paul Ulrich wrote:> Dear all, > > I would like to know whether it is possible to use any DRM scheme with > Ogg-Vorbis ? > My idea would be to distribute music commercially and be able > guarantee to artists that they won't be copied freely. > > Thanks for your advice. > Regards, > > *Ulrich* > ulrich@bbtest.roxr.com <mailto:ulrich@bbtest.roxr.com>-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis/attachments/20060213/123984cf/attachment-0001.html
Ulrich wrote:> I would like to know whether it is possible to use any DRM scheme with > Ogg-Vorbis ? > My idea would be to distribute music commercially and be able guarantee > to artists that they won't be copied freely.My advice is to recognize that no DRM scheme can "guarantee to artists that they [the tracks] won't be copied freely". Any such scheme only adversely affects the people whose business you're trying to court. You're going to be disappointed not only because you set your standards too high (such "guarantees" don't exist in the real world) but because you will have wasted a lot of time and money coming to realize this. Better to recognize that illicit copying will happen no matter what you do and that you're better off focusing on making your legitimate customers happy by distributing tracks without encumbrances so that they can time and space shift anything they legally obtain from your business (as they ought to be able to do in perpetuity). And make a point of teaching your customers why you're treating them the way that you do. Magnatune does this and I think that people come to associate that attitude with Magnatune and choose to do business with them because of the lack of DRM, copy prevention, or any other trickery. Engage in copy protection -- protect the user's ability to make and use copies anywhere they want at any time they want. Just like I can with my audio CDs, records, and tapes. Finally, when I buy music I would prefer to buy a FLAC compressed from an uncompressed recording of the artist, not some lossy-compressed variant (no matter how high-quality the encoding). I can make my own lossy encodings, but I can't reconstruct the information that was lost when the lossy encoding was made.
Definitely. No matter what kind of DRM the song is protected with, you can usually A) burn to a CD, then rip the CD, or B) hook up your sound output to a sound input, and record it in analog. Nothing made my church madder than when they bought a whole bunch of Christian songs on ITunes, then found out they couldn't play them in the powerpoint display we were doing at church. You can eventually get it to work, but non-technical people don't know how, and for technical people, it can still take a while. Plus, even though I may be paying less for a song or CD on ITunes than for what I would pay for a real copy at a real store, I'm also getting a lossy encoding of it, not a lossless one. This isn't cool either. Andy andycool22@gmail.com -----Original Message----->From: "J.B. Nicholson-Owens" <jbn@forestfield.org> > >Ulrich wrote: >> I would like to know whether it is possible to use any DRM scheme with >> Ogg-Vorbis ? >> My idea would be to distribute music commercially and be able guarantee >> to artists that they won't be copied freely. > >My advice is to recognize that no DRM scheme can "guarantee to artists that they >[the tracks] won't be copied freely". Any such scheme only adversely affects >the people whose business you're trying to court. You're going to be >disappointed not only because you set your standards too high (such "guarantees" >don't exist in the real world) but because you will have wasted a lot of time >and money coming to realize this. > >Finally, when I buy music I would prefer to buy a FLAC compressed from an >uncompressed recording of the artist, not some lossy-compressed variant (no >matter how high-quality the encoding). I can make my own lossy encodings, but I >can't reconstruct the information that was lost when the lossy encoding was made.*Andy Dale* Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. Ephesians 4:26 (NIV) andycool22@cinci.rr.com AndyCool22 on AIM ICQ # 76178574 MSN Messenger andycool22@peoplepc.com Yahoo! Messenger - andycool22@yahoo.com ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com