On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 10:03:59PM -0000, Martin Blackwell wrote:> Hi, really stupid question here:... "there's no such thing as a stupid question"> question: how would i go about modifiying my stereo cd player (whatever model) to be able to play vorbis files on CD/CD-R/CD-RW ?Let's break this down... you'd need: 1. Any modifications necessary to the laser and control mechanisms to read CD-R/RW (most newer CD players can read CD-R/RW already) 2. Modifications to the positioning system, error checking, etc. to allow reading the data CD format 3. A (probably custom) microcontroller implementing all the code necessary to manage both the physical positioning and filesystem interfacing aspects of reading an ISO filesystem 4. A DSP capable of running the Tremor integer Vorbis decoder 5. Interface to control the data going to/from this DSP -- CD filesystem browsing, file reading, tag processing/display, etc. 6. Reimplementing all the regular CD playing functionality that you bypassed (if I haven't forgotten anything) All of this requires: 6. Extensive internal knowledge of the electronics in the CD player 7. Willingness to go buy a new one when you break it 8. Lots and lots of time, patience, and hardware hacking experience It would be a neat project, but I think that this would be more practical: A mini-ITX system, e.g. http://www.mini-itx.com/store/default.asp?c=11 -- fanles, very quiet, nice and small. You could quite easily get a Vorbis-capable shelf-size CD player that way. Fun projects for this would be more along the lines of an IR remote control, playlist and title display on an LCD or TV out, networking, or adding hard disk ripping. Though the URL eludes me right now, I think some of these have already been addressed by others with similar intersts. If you feel like hacking something together, take some pics and summarize your process on a website; I'm sure there are people here who are interested in something like this done from start to finish. -- Kenneth Arnold <ken@arnoldnet.net> <p> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis/attachments/20021205/313a5338/part-0001.pgp
Hi, really stupid question here: 1) not bothered how possible it is 2) not bothered how legal it is 3) not bothered how much it costs question: how would i go about modifiying my stereo cd player (whatever model) to be able to play vorbis files on CD/CD-R/CD-RW ? <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>From what I understand (limited as that is) you probably wont be able to modify anything you currently have to do so. The cd player would need to have a vorbis decoder built in to it. Perhaps if the CD player had the ability to play mp3's and had some built in firmware update capability (I don't know of one that does that) you might be able to get the company (or someone whith access to their propriatary code) to compile a firmware update to include the capability. But thats about as likely as it sounds.Most likely there WILL be a manufacture somewhere in the next few years to produce a vorbis player, so waiting for that is likely your best option. You might be able to help by sending emails off to major manufacturers requesting just that. If they don't hear alot of noise wanting it, they'll never do it. David -----Original Message----- From: Martin Blackwell [mailto:djdij@handbags.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:04 PM To: vorbis@xiph.org Subject: [vorbis] stupid cd player mod question <p>Hi, really stupid question here: 1) not bothered how possible it is 2) not bothered how legal it is 3) not bothered how much it costs question: how would i go about modifiying my stereo cd player (whatever model) to be able to play vorbis files on CD/CD-R/CD-RW ? <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>question: how would i go about modifiying my stereo cd player (whatevermodel) to be able to play>vorbis files on CD/CD-R/CD-RW ?Gut it. Put a small-factor motherboard, power supply, and CD-ROM in the case. Figure out how to use the existing buttons to control a small program that is automatically loaded from flash memory whenever the unit is turned on. Enjoy. Oh, and expect the sound to be really bad unless you create a Faraday cage within the box for a nice, quiet DAC. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Take stereo, throw in bin, buy DVD player. Seriously hack or obtain a firmware upgrade that includes a vorbis decoder as well as the mp3 decoders that they all have nowadys. Have fun. It's by far the simplest method and borrows the CD-RW and menu systems that exist in the DVD player, leaving "only" the vorbis decode issue. Maybe slotting in the guts of a CDi machine would be less drastic, but there's not much point. I know jack sh*t about all this shtuff, but I felt like contributing my nonsense anyway :) ~SB --- Martin Blackwell wrote:> question: how would i go about modifiying my stereo > cd player (whatever model) to be able to play vorbis > files on CD/CD-R/CD-RW ?__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> Hi, really stupid question here: > > 1) not bothered how possible it is > 2) not bothered how legal it is > 3) not bothered how much it costs > > question: how would i go about modifiying my stereo cd player (whatever > model) to be able to play vorbis files on CD/CD-R/CD-RW ?Well, as long as you're not bothered by how much it costs... Assuming you're starting from a component CD player and not a discman: Try ripping out all the guts. Put a CD-ROM drive where the old drive mechanism used to be (I have heard rumour that some models use essentially CD-ROM drives internally, so this step may be optional), put a fanless mini-itx motherboard where the rest of the guts used to be. Some of the mini-itx motherboards even have S/PDIF output, which is great if you have the input on your amp. You'll need a small powersupply, too. Any powersupply intended for a 1U rackmount case should fit. Install LinuxBIOS; Run a customized version of Linux/FreeBSD/etc. You might need to write (or hire someone to write) a bit of control software to be a shim between the front panel buttons and ogg123/workbone. This should all fit within the initrd, so no hard drive should be necessary, and the whole thing should boot and be ready to play discs in 3-5 seconds or so. You might need to upgrade the flash size on the motherboard. LinuxBIOS might not be ported to any of the micro-itx boards yet. You might need to do that (or pay someone to do that. Cost was no object, right?) Oh, and you'll have to replace the display, of course. There are a wide variety of LCDs that can be computer controlled for you to choose from. Of course, you'll have to write (or hire...) custom software to get ogg123/workbone to display anything useful on your LCD. Take a look at the folks working on 3rd party software for the empeg; they might have something you can use. <p>Assuming you're starting from a discman: Buy an iRiver SlimX, and pray that the 'coming soon' Vorbis-playing firmware update really is coming soon. Peter Harris --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
David Demers said: "Most likely there WILL be a manufacture somewhere in the next few years to produce a vorbis player" I say: i'm too impatient (altho i will be hoping to buy the neuros player next year as a portable vorbis player), i want want now :)) David Demers said: you might be able to get the company (or someone whith access to their propriatary code) to compile a firmware update to include the capability I said: 2) not bothered how legal it is <p>Stephen Commisky said: Gut it. I say: I'm not capable enough to perform the task Stephen Commisky said: Enjoy. Oh, and expect the sound to be really bad unless you create a Faraday cage within the box for a nice, quiet DAC. I say: would a simple PC box with a DOS player not do the job? eg mess around with the boot options to automatically launch & play the DOS player so u dont have to have a monitor, keyboard, or mouse connected, just speakers to the soundcard (you can get these ridiculously tiny PCs now) Keneth Arnold said: ansolutely nothing - looks like a case of the auto reciept feature SwiftBiscuit said: hack a DVD players' firmware: I say: i had thought of that, but a) my dvd player wont read CD-Rs (so i'd have to buy a new one) b) i'm not capable enough. good answer tho (nice questionable legality angle>:) ) <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Martin Blackwell wrote:> > question: how would i go about modifiying my stereo cd player (whatever > model) to be able to play vorbis files on CD/CD-R/CD-RW ?Swap it for a cheap laptop PC. The amount of work/parts you'll save by doing this will be cheaper in the long run and you can have it working tomorrow. <p><p><p><p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
fungus said: use a laptop i say: thought of using micro PC, but neither laptop or micro PC look like a stereo <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Well, actually, my surname is CommiskEy, with an E, but... You can get motherboards with built-in audio. They will, however, suffer from the same problems as internal sound cards (it's a noisy environment in a computer) and not have any advantages except size. If you want a nice, clean signal, you're going to have to Faraday-cage it. Thus my condition that you have to have a separate Faraday cage for the DAC. He wanted something that had a CD player's form factor and quality - but he didn't specify that he had an all-digital amp (which would change the situation seriously; if it were all digital, noise would not be a problem). That's why I suggested what I did. -SWC>>> djdij@handbags.freeserve.co.uk 12/05/02 17:16 PM >>>I say: Stephen Commisky said: Enjoy. Oh, and expect the sound to be really bad unless you create a Faraday cage within the box for a nice, quiet DAC. I say: would a simple PC box with a DOS player not do the job? eg mess around with the boot options to automatically launch & play the DOS player so u dont have to have a monitor, keyboard, or mouse connected, just speakers to the soundcard (you can get these ridiculously tiny PCs now) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I stand corrected. My assumptions were based on fitting it into a normal CD player form factor, which would be pretty insanely difficult to do without a system that has built-in sound (although I'm sure there are some mini-systems that allow horizontal PCI card mounting). And that would have much worse S/N than a decent CD player. What I should have said, in my first response, was that he should just go buy a DVD player with upgradeable firmware and wait. But I had had a couple of drinks last night, and I just had go spouting off.... Sorry if I came off brusque. Oh well, it's less public (though not much less embarassing) than the idiotic "I'm soooo baaaaaaaked" stories on alt.drugs. And with that mea culpa out of the way, I'll resume my usual lurk and leave the sound stuff to the people who know it. -SWC>>> eds@reric.net 12/06/02 11:56AM >>>This is probably off-topic here, but for a competent engineer the RF noise in a PC is not a big problem. There are many pro-grade sound boards that have the converters on a PCI card, and there's no metal shielding on the board. These boards often run 24bit/96kHz and get quite good S/N. A Faraday cage isn't needed, just good smart board design. There will always be an advantage to having analog stuff in its own shielded environment, but it's only an issue if you need more than, say, 100db of dynamic range. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Blackwell <djdij@handbags.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Friday, December 6, 2002 10:54 am Subject: Re: [vorbis] stupid cd player mod question> fungus said: > use a laptop > i say: > thought of using micro PC, but neither laptop or micro PC look > like a stereoDoes it need to look like a stereo? Just build it inside a stereo box..... Do you require your Cd players to look like tape players or gramaphones? <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I'm curious, are you thinking about a piece of rack-mounted/stereo cabinet scenerio (home), or a car stereo scenerio? David -----Original Message----- From: Martin Blackwell [mailto:djdij@handbags.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 3:59 PM To: vorbis@xiph.org Subject: Re: [vorbis] stupid cd player mod question <p>1) Anyone have an idea on how to achieve the auto playing of a cd, and playing/searching/selecting/creating/ playlists without a monitor attatched, and only with a simple LCD screen available? 2) other question- auto boot to a GUI OS & run software, or stay in command line OS such as DOS, UNIX etc. 3) since i plan to have it looking like a stereo system & not a desk/lap top, would a easily accesible external monitor output & keyboard input be advised, or leave it inside the case, available only to repair/debug in case it nacks up? Finally, is there any command line software available that is up to some/all of the job allready? <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.