> -----Original Message----- > From: Akos Maroy [SMTP:darkeye@tyrell.hu] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:14 PM > To: vorbis@xiph.org > Subject: Re: [vorbis] streaming ogg audio > > figyu wrote: > > so, if i listen to a streamed ogg file (enter url into winamp, eg), the seek > > bar never shows up, nor the position of where the playback is at any given > > moment. the file length is also not known or shown. you can only stop it and > > start again right from the beginning. > > however, this all works with an mp3. > > does it? my experience is that you can not seek with mp3 streaming > either, and certainly you can't seek into a live stream. > > > we would need this to stream ogg for a radio station, but listeners would > > not possibly put up with this not-being-able-to-seek-anywhere. > > is it because of certain winamp shortcomings with vorbis streams or is it > > down to ogg vorbis rc3 solely? > > No, this is the nature of streaming mp3s as well. Basically, mp3 > streaming is done by HTTP requests, reading a huge mp3 file from the web > server a piece at a time. As there are no additional commands than > standard HTTP, you can't send any special stuff like seeking into a > file, etc. >Yes but the file duration of an mp3 file is generally easy to determine: - for non-VBR files you derive a good estimation from the file size (from figyu's case I figure it's just winamp downloading files of known size) and the bitrate. I have never seen it differ more than a fraction of a second for 10-15mins files (the same cannot be said for ogg files, I made the test). - VBR files usually come with a file header which provides the duration of the file. Also Winamp may maintain a copy of the file on disk in which case it can seek freely within the already downloaded part of the mp3 file, it could also be done for an ogg file but without the file duration how is winamp going to display a seek bar. I think that putting the file duration in the Ogg/Vorbis headers would be a very useful addition. André --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
TIMMERMANS ANDRE wrote:> Yes but the file duration of an mp3 file is generally easy to determine: > - for non-VBR files you derive a good estimation from the file size > (from figyu's case I figure it's just winamp downloading files of known size) > and the bitrate. I have never seen it differ more than a fraction > of a second for 10-15mins files (the same cannot be said for > ogg files, I made the test).Yes, this is true: CBR mp3 files can be seeked into by offset calculations based on the sample rate> - VBR files usually come with a file header which provides > the duration of the file.for the duration, yes. but you can't seek into it into a certain position easily. e.g. you can't say: I want to listen from the 10th minute of this file.> Also Winamp may maintain a copy of the file on disk in which case > it can seek freely within the already downloaded part of the mp3 file,would you do this with mp3 files of several 10MBs?> it could also be done for an ogg file but without the file duration > how is winamp going to display a seek bar.the problem with ogg is that it is inherently a VBR format. but the ogg libraries provide a way to seek into them. The main problem is that as you have nothing but a generic web server on the server side, you would have to do all these things by means of HTTP requests. I don't see how this could be done easily. Another approach would be to use icecast or a similar server on the server side. Then special requests could be made. For this one would have to make developers of icecast & popular players aggree on the format of these special requests. <p>Akos <p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Erik has it right, I think. That person was me. It's not in the generally-available tools, but it IS in the Ogg plugin that comes with the current version of Winamp (2.80). It has the option to save a stream with the necessary corrections, and it also has the ability to correct existing saved streams (under "Streaming" in the preferences for the Vorbis input decoder). Is this what you were looking for, Figyu?>>> erik@kristensen.org 06/27/02 06:02AM >>>To make the confusion complete: A couple of month back in the mailing list someone had a problem with seeking in saved streams. If i remember correct this was fixed but I dont think the fix is in the usual shipped plugins yet. This means that if you want this fix, you have to compile from cvs. This fix was for streams that was saved with some utility to save urls, like wget under unix. Erik <p><p>--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.