Hello -- I desperately want to start using Ogg compression on music I
release on the internet, but I am encountering a fair amount of artifacts.
I noticed some in beta4 and was hoping they would disappear with RC1.
However, I've been playing with RC2 and I've still been banging my head
into
a number of problems. A majority of the music I make has long drones with a
fair amount of spectral content, and I often find these play havok with the
encoder.
Here is a recent example I ran into.
http://www.notype.com/users/833-45/ogg/fadein_01.ape
http://www.notype.com/users/833-45/ogg/fadein_01.pac
original file (monkey's audio & lpac compression).
rc2 ogg files:
http://www.notype.com/users/833-45/ogg/fadein_64.ogg
http://www.notype.com/users/833-45/ogg/fadein_128.ogg
http://www.notype.com/users/833-45/ogg/fadein_256.ogg
no need for golden ears to hear to high frequency chirpy-bubbles in both
the 64 & 128 kbps versions. The 256 version seems to avoid the problem, at
least to my ears.
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k.m.krebs \ 833-45 \ kkrebs@telus.net
http://www3.telus.net/kkrebs
PGP public key -
http://www3.telus.net/kkrebs/kmkrebs.asc
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...Encoding doesn't seem to be so much different since beta 4 (By the way, did you update the decoder as well if you are on Windows? For there seem to have been a bug-fix in RC2). Actually, I expected even worse results by the added channel coupling. Probably, people waiting for a post-LAME format should wait till the non-beta release. For there will be the major encoding improvements and manual options. However, the new lower bitrates options seem to be better than its rivals. I don't know why they bother comparing WMA@64 with MP3@128 in r3mix forum (http://r3mix.net/forum). Obviously, Ogg sounds much better and is smaller than WMA. However, hardware compatibility...is still a neck. Rio Volt and Hipzip are going to be compatible with the format, did they say? However, the people who will be going to wait for the longest time is, probably, people like you expecting a format for net music with sensible quality. You have to wait even after the non-beta version. :-( ---- "k.m.krebs" <kkrebs@telus.net> wrote:> I noticed some in beta4 and was hoping they would disappear with RC1. > However, I've been playing with RC2 and I've still been banging my > head into a number of problems.___________________________________________________________________ To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax, all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
---- "Gian-Carlo Pascutto" <gcp@sjeng.org> wrote: B>Actually, I expected even worse results by the added channel coupling. G> Worse? If anything, channel coupling should drastically improve G> quality at equal bitrates. Channel coupling removes more redundant G> information that can be used to improve the hard to encode parts G> of the music. Sorry if it caused misunderstanding, but I meant the possibility of bugs. For MP3's joint stereo had problems and Ogg's Channel Coupling seems to be more complex technology. G> The only problem that it has now is that a piece of normalisation G> code is missing that can add a hissyness at bitrates 256kbps if G> point/phase stereo is used. Just like this. However, it was a good surprise that it hasn't got many of these kinds of problems. B>I don't know why they bother comparing WMA@64 with MP3@128 in r3mix B>forum (http://r3mix.net/forum). Obviously, Ogg sounds much better B>and is smaller than WMA. G> What are you talking about? The listening test going on in r3mix is G> comparing WMA,OGG,LAME,Xing,AAC and MPC, all at 128kbps (or VBR G> setting which averages that) Wrong thread...I meant a thread 'MP3 vs WMA.' However, yours seem to be much more interesting. Thanx. G> I did not like some aspects of the RC2 encoder and have my own tuned G> mode. G> It fixes the problems that were most annoying to me. G> I tested it with your sample and it seems to fix the problem to me. Good. I'll wait till the next release. However, just from curiosity, why didn't hackers fix the problem while an individual can fix it single-handedly? ___________________________________________________________________ To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax, all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Hello k.m.krebs, Thursday, 16 August, 2001, 05:59:36, you wrote: kmk> Hello -- I desperately want to start using Ogg compression on music I kmk> release on the internet, but I am encountering a fair amount of artifacts. kmk> Here is a recent example I ran into. kmk> http://www.notype.com/users/833-45/ogg/fadein_01.ape kmk> http://www.notype.com/users/833-45/ogg/fadein_01.pac kmk> no need for golden ears to hear to high frequency chirpy-bubbles in both kmk> the 64 & 128 kbps versions. The 256 version seems to avoid the problem, at kmk> least to my ears. The problem is most probably in channel coupling, since beta4 sounds OK to me at 128kbps. RC2 also sounds OK if you use 160kbps or higher mode. -- Vorbis Xtreme | http://solair.eunet.yu/~aldov/ Ogg Vorbis is the free, open source alternative to MP3 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.