Vorbis dev - Apr 2000 - Metadata, file signatures, and extentions

Hi,
        I've been working writing some tools that deal with id3v2 tags on
mp3
files.  id3v2 is this really, really long specification with places for
all kinds of metadata for media.  
        I've looking at the sample vorbis encoder and a file I made from it
I
noted that you have some a comment field, and I was wondering if you had
any plans to support more metadata, and if you would consider adding
id3v2 as your metadata format.  The id3v2 is a farily elaborate
specicification, it wouldn't be a good thing for theis "wheel" to
have
to be reinvented for vorbis.  It also would be nice to see this written
in the actually vorbis spec, rather than bolted on later.
        The one downside I've seen in using id3v2 tags is that they usually
begin at the very beginning of the file.   Looking at a vorbis file you
a file signature at the beginning.  Not sure what can be done in this
case as id3v2 tags expect to be at the very beginning of the file.
        Also: what is the file extention used for vorbis files?  .vor?

        thanks,
                myers

-- 
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.

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"Myers W. Carpenter" wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>         I've been working writing some tools that deal with id3v2 tags
on mp3
> files.  id3v2 is this really, really long specification with places for
> all kinds of metadata for media.
ID3V2 came about to work around shortcomings in the format of MP3
files.  For instance, having no metadata.  It has some shortcomings of
its own, such as having the variables all use cryptic 4 character
names.  I could go off on what I dislike about that particular
attribute, but it would be boring and take us off topic.
>         I've looking at the sample vorbis encoder and a file I made
from it I
> noted that you have some a comment field, and I was wondering if you had
> any plans to support more metadata, and if you would consider adding
> id3v2 as your metadata format.  The id3v2 is a farily elaborate
> specicification, it wouldn't be a good thing for theis
"wheel" to have
> to be reinvented for vorbis.  It also would be nice to see this written
> in the actually vorbis spec, rather than bolted on later.
I could be totally wrong, but I think the comment is part of the stream
header.  As such, it would be fine for things like track name, etc., but
not for things like feeding lines of lyrics as the track plays.

For the latter, (and the former, for that matter) one might want to
define a simple CODEC, the job of which is to display lyric fragments
(or other metadata) and encode an additional stream to feed that CODEC
at an appropriate rate.  CODECs don't necessarily have to only be for
audio and video content.

This train of thought can get considerably more complex, but since I
have no idea what sort of acceptance it would get, I won't expend a
whole lot of time describing my ideas at this point.

I am totally with you about doing it right the first time.
>         The one downside I've seen in using id3v2 tags is that they
usually
> begin at the very beginning of the file.   Looking at a vorbis file you
> a file signature at the beginning.  Not sure what can be done in this
> case as id3v2 tags expect to be at the very beginning of the file.
There are places such as the comment field and the stream idea that I
described above that could deal with this.  Since the format is still
young, now would be the time to make other changes if they are deemed to
be worthwhile.

As I read the ID3V2 spec, it appeared that there was no restriction on
where in the file they were as long as framing was preserved.  ID3V2
frames could appear throughout the track; not necessarily at the
beginning.  Granted, I wasn't exactly studying it.
>         Also: what is the file extention used for vorbis files?  .vor?
I think .ogg has been selected for this.

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I need to get this one into the FAQ.
> 	I've been working writing some tools that deal with id3v2 tags on mp3
> files.  id3v2 is this really, really long specification with places for
> all kinds of metadata for media.  
> 	I've looking at the sample vorbis encoder and a file I made from it I
> noted that you have some a comment field, and I was wondering if you had
> any plans to support more metadata, and if you would consider adding
> id3v2 as your metadata format.
id3v2 will not be a part of Vorbis.  Ogg bistreams allow mixing streams of any 
type, and there will be an XML stream type defined for metadata.  This is a 
better solution than id3 in just about every technical sense.  The Ogg 
bitstream code to support this already exists.

The comment fields in the Vorbis header are only for text comments, not
arbitrary metadata.
> 	Also: what is the file extention used for vorbis files?  .vor?
This is in the FAQ.  .ogg

Monty

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