> From: Joel Hammer [mailto:Joel@HammersHome.com] > Subject: Re: New York WTC>On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 08:45:42PM -0600, Ralph Sanford wrote: >> Not practical solution. >> >> Cause the pilots are hired to fly the plane, NOT as gunfighters. I would > >I think you are really wrong. Most pilots are ex military.--> Most pilots are trained by civilian flight schools these days, I think. Military aviation has gotten so specialized that it's not considered as useful as training for airline work as it used to be. (You can't "punch out" of an airliner if something goes wrong, for example.)> Anyone can fire a gun. Just the THREAT of a gun in the hands of a pilotwould> prevent men with pen knives from taking over the plane.--> Anyone can fire a gun. But most people cannot fire one accurately enough to take out a terrorist without hitting an innocent bystander or part of a fragile aircraft. And if the pilot's a bit slow in grabbing his/her weapon, well, the terrorist is going to grab it and a bad situation has just gotten worse. (Even in police work, many officers are shot WITH THEIR OWN GUN.) I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have armed guards on aircraft, I just don't think that we should push that responsibility on the pilots, especially since I think few of them would want it. The pilot's primary job, in any emergency, is to FLY THE AIRPLANE. Accidents happen when the pilot's mind loses focus on that to concentrate on some other problem. (Many accidents in small planes happen when a door pops open and the pilot stalls the airplane while trying to close it, instead of just going around and landing, for example.)> Why the cockpit door is not make secure is also dumb.--> Agreed. But supposedly in this case the terrorists simply threatened passengers and stewardesses until the pilots opened the door. (Though I doubt many pilots will make that mistake now.) My guess is the main reason is weight -- airplanes are made as light as possible. I hope they look at requiring stronger doors in future aircraft. I'm not sure how pressurization concerns would affect that, though. Right now in catastrophic depressurizations, the cockpit door invariably blows out. If the door were stronger, it might remain in place and be jammed shut by the pressure differential.
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:21:50 -0400 David Brodbeck <DavidB@mail.interclean.com> wrote:> of a fragile aircraft. And if the pilot's a bit slow in grabbinghis/her> weapon, well, the terrorist is going to grab it and a bad situationhas just> gotten worse. (Even in police work, many officers are shot WITHTHEIR OWN> GUN.) I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have armed guards onaircraft, I Some time ago I heard about research to make a gun that can only be fired by it's owner (it senses his bioprint through sensors in the part-you-hold-in-your-hand-and-I-don't-know-the-English-term-for-it). -- Systems and Network Administrator - Delta Romania Phone +4093-267961
Actually, I much prefer the idea of the FAA creating a 'Civilian Air Marshals Service', that ANYONE can join, where people go through a rigorous training program, and after successfully completing the training AND passing an FBI background check, this person then becomes qualified as a Civilian Air Marshal. Now, whenever they fly, they are eligible to be one of (3? 5?) passengers on every flight that is assigned a gun during that flight. These guns will, of course, be loaded with the special ammo that Air Marshals currently use, that will not penetrate the airplanes fuselage (I'm not sure exactly 'how' it is different). Alternatively, some other form of NON-lethal weapon mught be also used, that will require somewhat less training. Regardless, I am sick and tired of people wanting to 'be protected' from everything. Come one, poeple, take responsibility for your OWN safety, and learn how to DEFEND yourselves (and your loved ones). An armed society is a polite society... Charles Marcus -----Original Message----- --> Anyone can fire a gun. But most people cannot fire one accurately enough to take out a terrorist without hitting an innocent bystander or part of a fragile aircraft. And if the pilot's a bit slow in grabbing his/her weapon, well, the terrorist is going to grab it and a bad situation has just gotten worse. (Even in police work, many officers are shot WITH THEIR OWN GUN.) I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have armed guards on aircraft, I just don't think that we should push that responsibility on the pilots, especially since I think few of them would want it. The pilot's primary job, in any emergency, is to FLY THE AIRPLANE. Accidents happen when the pilot's mind loses focus on that to concentrate on some other problem. (Many accidents in small planes happen when a door pops open and the pilot stalls the airplane while trying to close it, instead of just going around and landing, for example.)
Of course, three or six people might be able to overpower an air-marshal and take his gun, particularly if they are well organized... Maybe if biometrics were used to prevent others from being able to use it...>From: "Charles Marcus" <CharlesM@Media-Brokers.com> >To: <samba@lists.samba.org> >Subject: RE: New York WTC (OT) >Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:01:18 -0400 > >As long as this technology is not FORCED on me, I see no problem with >having >special guns like this used under special circumstances like this (guns on >airplanes). > >This same technology could be used to code the guns for the civilian air >marshals as well. I like that idea. > >Charles > >-----Original Message----- >From: samba-admin@lists.samba.org [mailto:samba-admin@lists.samba.org]On >Behalf Of Silviu Marin-Caea >Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 9:44 AM >To: samba@lists.samba.org >Subject: Re: New York WTC (OT) > > >On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:21:50 -0400 >David Brodbeck <DavidB@mail.interclean.com> wrote: > > > of a fragile aircraft. And if the pilot's a bit slow in grabbing >his/her > > weapon, well, the terrorist is going to grab it and a bad situation >has just > > gotten worse. (Even in police work, many officers are shot WITH >THEIR OWN > > GUN.) I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have armed guards on >aircraft, I > >Some time ago I heard about research to make a gun that can only be >fired by it's owner (it senses his bioprint through sensors in the >part-you-hold-in-your-hand-and-I-don't-know-the-English-term-for-it). > > >-- >Systems and Network Administrator - Delta Romania >Phone +4093-267961 > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the >instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba > > > >-- >To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the >instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp