I have tried to use the rails console to run the following: Teamplayer.includes(:live_player) It tells me: Association named 'live_player' was not found on Teamplayer; perhaps you misspelled it? so the tables are named live_players and teamplayers respectively. There is also another table called teams but that will only make sense in the models below: Liveplayer: class LivePlayer < ActiveRecord::Base has_many :teamplayers has_many :fteams, :through => :teamplayers end Fteam: class Fteam < ActiveRecord::Base belongs_to :liveplayer end Teamplayer: class Teamplayer < ActiveRecord::Base belongs_to :live_player belongs_to :fteam end so what is problem with this. I have been at this for days -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rubyonrails-talk/3fb524d40ef9244424d8dbd6b3e3af0c%40ruby-forum.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.