Rails - May 2011 - What are the best Rails 3 books that really reduce learning curve, gotchas and generally avoid all the out of date info online?

Rails seems like it''s a great platform... just the documentation
isn''t
as in-depth as I would like beyond the simplest cases.... and "google"
is not necessary the best way to learn things because lots of forums
and blogs show you how to do things using earlier versions. It''s not
always easy to separate what''s relevant from what isn''t
relevant. All
of this can make a person less productive rather than more productive.

So... are there any books that really help reduce the learning curve
and gotchas with developing COMPLEX applications with Rails 3?

Some criteria:

1. I am not looking for a "how to" book. I am already 530 tests in and
understand quite a bit about rails already in the 2 weeks that I''ve
been using. I''m a programmer of 19 years and have been building web
apps for a long time.

2. I am not looking for a book that spends 20%-50% of its pages
explaining how to program in OO... or what an MVC architecture is...
or what an ORM is. I can actually write these libraries/frameworks if
I really had the time, so understanding is not the problem ;)

3. I am really more interested in a book or set of books/resources
that cover all the gotchas that you WILL come across when building
COMPLEX applications - something that is up-to-date.

4. The real problem with examples and samples online is that they are
just too simple. I always find myself  I am really interested in books
that don''t cover the "simple" examples, but also the
"exceptions" to
the examples/scenarios that are likely most complex and highly
customized you are likely to see in a large application.

5. I am really interested in books that don''t cover "how to setup
devise", but rather, that cover the most useful customizations
you''d
ever want to do in Devise (just as an example... we can replace
"Devise" with ''gem XYZ'' here)

Do these resources exist? Or is grueling through the learning curve
pretty much the best way to go about it?

The only reason I ask this is because I''ve come to the conclusion that
IF you have 2-ish months to build a large application, and IF you are
REALLY good at another platform... I am not convinced that Rails will
help in the short term giving many of its documentation problems, out-
of-date examples and general "gotchas" and "problems" that
seem to
occur a lot more frequently than say in Java/Spring.

I do fully admit that once you learn all the gotchas in Rails and the
various plugins, and you know how to do "one of every complex thing"
possible, you will be MUCH faster than in Java/Spring regardless of
how good you are in Java. But that probably means you need to get 1-2
months of time under your belt using Ruby and Rails minimum.

Anyway, I''ve probably rambled enough. If you have any good books/
resources to help speed up my learning curve and take out a lot of
guesswork and "solving weird problems in dark" type of issues, that
would be awesome.

If you''d like to have discussion about other things, I''m
always fair
game with that. LOL.

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Oh, one more thing:

One of the biggest things I find myself googling is testing. Because
so much magic happens, I am always googling to find out "how do I test
this?!" I seem to come up with testing gotchas and problems all the
time.

Googling about testing actually results in very poor results. For
example, if you google testing validations, you will come across Ruby
2.0 testing code that is obsolete... or you''ll find a way of testing
that doesn''t cover all the cases and is kind of bloated. You''d
think
one would not have to reinvent the wheel about "how to test
validations", but that''s actually what happened in my case (my
solution I coded myself is rather quite nice... I wish I saw it online
though :/)

Once you throw in Devise into the mix, testing gets even more
complicated. For example, devise gives you the necessary methods when
testing controllers, but will not include them for Helpers - even if
you specify that it should. It''s really very odd behaviour. This type
of random "doesn''t just work" situation seems to happen all
the time
for me.

Anyway, maybe now I am just venting. I am finding the whole "learning
a new platform" to be perhaps a lot more work than I thought it would
be.

I''m starting to think a "bloated Java programmer who''s
REALLY good at
that bloat" can probably still produce faster than someone learning
Rails. Of course, eventually, the Rails programmer will outpace him...
but it might take awhile.

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- Anything from PragProg.com
- The Rails 3 way is priceless


Kind Regards,
Chad Eubanks 
The Code Boutique


Sent from my iPhone

On May 22, 2011, at 6:48 AM, egervari
<ken.egervari-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Rails seems like it''s a great platform... just the documentation
isn''t
> as in-depth as I would like beyond the simplest cases.... and
"google"
> is not necessary the best way to learn things because lots of forums
> and blogs show you how to do things using earlier versions. It''s
not
> always easy to separate what''s relevant from what isn''t
relevant. All
> of this can make a person less productive rather than more productive.
> 
> So... are there any books that really help reduce the learning curve
> and gotchas with developing COMPLEX applications with Rails 3?
> 
> Some criteria:
> 
> 1. I am not looking for a "how to" book. I am already 530 tests
in and
> understand quite a bit about rails already in the 2 weeks that
I''ve
> been using. I''m a programmer of 19 years and have been building
web
> apps for a long time.
> 
> 2. I am not looking for a book that spends 20%-50% of its pages
> explaining how to program in OO... or what an MVC architecture is...
> or what an ORM is. I can actually write these libraries/frameworks if
> I really had the time, so understanding is not the problem ;)
> 
> 3. I am really more interested in a book or set of books/resources
> that cover all the gotchas that you WILL come across when building
> COMPLEX applications - something that is up-to-date.
> 
> 4. The real problem with examples and samples online is that they are
> just too simple. I always find myself  I am really interested in books
> that don''t cover the "simple" examples, but also the
"exceptions" to
> the examples/scenarios that are likely most complex and highly
> customized you are likely to see in a large application.
> 
> 5. I am really interested in books that don''t cover "how to
setup
> devise", but rather, that cover the most useful customizations
you''d
> ever want to do in Devise (just as an example... we can replace
> "Devise" with ''gem XYZ'' here)
> 
> Do these resources exist? Or is grueling through the learning curve
> pretty much the best way to go about it?
> 
> The only reason I ask this is because I''ve come to the conclusion
that
> IF you have 2-ish months to build a large application, and IF you are
> REALLY good at another platform... I am not convinced that Rails will
> help in the short term giving many of its documentation problems, out-
> of-date examples and general "gotchas" and "problems"
that seem to
> occur a lot more frequently than say in Java/Spring.
> 
> I do fully admit that once you learn all the gotchas in Rails and the
> various plugins, and you know how to do "one of every complex
thing"
> possible, you will be MUCH faster than in Java/Spring regardless of
> how good you are in Java. But that probably means you need to get 1-2
> months of time under your belt using Ruby and Rails minimum.
> 
> Anyway, I''ve probably rambled enough. If you have any good books/
> resources to help speed up my learning curve and take out a lot of
> guesswork and "solving weird problems in dark" type of issues,
that
> would be awesome.
> 
> If you''d like to have discussion about other things, I''m
always fair
> game with that. LOL.
> 
> -- 
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Rails 3 way is definitely the way to go. Its very much like the book you
want.

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Railstutorial.org is a great resource for learning testing with rspec. 
Pragprog.com has a great testing book.

Banks

Sent from my iPhone

On May 22, 2011, at 6:54 AM, egervari
<ken.egervari-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Oh, one more thing:
> 
> One of the biggest things I find myself googling is testing. Because
> so much magic happens, I am always googling to find out "how do I test
> this?!" I seem to come up with testing gotchas and problems all the
> time.
> 
> Googling about testing actually results in very poor results. For
> example, if you google testing validations, you will come across Ruby
> 2.0 testing code that is obsolete... or you''ll find a way of
testing
> that doesn''t cover all the cases and is kind of bloated.
You''d think
> one would not have to reinvent the wheel about "how to test
> validations", but that''s actually what happened in my case
(my
> solution I coded myself is rather quite nice... I wish I saw it online
> though :/)
> 
> Once you throw in Devise into the mix, testing gets even more
> complicated. For example, devise gives you the necessary methods when
> testing controllers, but will not include them for Helpers - even if
> you specify that it should. It''s really very odd behaviour. This
type
> of random "doesn''t just work" situation seems to happen
all the time
> for me.
> 
> Anyway, maybe now I am just venting. I am finding the whole "learning
> a new platform" to be perhaps a lot more work than I thought it would
> be.
> 
> I''m starting to think a "bloated Java programmer
who''s REALLY good at
> that bloat" can probably still produce faster than someone learning
> Rails. Of course, eventually, the Rails programmer will outpace him...
> but it might take awhile.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
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> 
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> - Anything from PragProg.com
> - The Rails 3 way is priceless
>
> Kind Regards,
> Chad Eubanks
> The Code Boutique
Hi Chad ;)

Yeah, the Rails 3 Way looked like an interesting book. It had mixed
reviews when I did some searching, so I wasn''t sure. I liked how it
wasn''t branded on being a book for beginners.

If I had to get *2* books from there, what would the other be?

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Rails 3 way is the way to go.
For testing search for Michael Hartl tutorial. Its has some great
examples for test driven development.
You should also try looking at some very good open source rails
projects on github. They have lots of testing examples and very up-to-
date.

Combining these resources will great. As no single book will be up to
date. Rails develop really very fast.

On May 22, 6:48 pm, egervari
<ken.egerv...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Rails seems like it''s a great platform... just the documentation
isn''t
> as in-depth as I would like beyond the simplest cases.... and
"google"
> is not necessary the best way to learn things because lots of forums
> and blogs show you how to do things using earlier versions. It''s
not
> always easy to separate what''s relevant from what isn''t
relevant. All
> of this can make a person less productive rather than more productive.
>
> So... are there any books that really help reduce the learning curve
> and gotchas with developing COMPLEX applications with Rails 3?
>
> Some criteria:
>
> 1. I am not looking for a "how to" book. I am already 530 tests
in and
> understand quite a bit about rails already in the 2 weeks that
I''ve
> been using. I''m a programmer of 19 years and have been building
web
> apps for a long time.
>
> 2. I am not looking for a book that spends 20%-50% of its pages
> explaining how to program in OO... or what an MVC architecture is...
> or what an ORM is. I can actually write these libraries/frameworks if
> I really had the time, so understanding is not the problem ;)
>
> 3. I am really more interested in a book or set of books/resources
> that cover all the gotchas that you WILL come across when building
> COMPLEX applications - something that is up-to-date.
>
> 4. The real problem with examples and samples online is that they are
> just too simple. I always find myself  I am really interested in books
> that don''t cover the "simple" examples, but also the
"exceptions" to
> the examples/scenarios that are likely most complex and highly
> customized you are likely to see in a large application.
>
> 5. I am really interested in books that don''t cover "how to
setup
> devise", but rather, that cover the most useful customizations
you''d
> ever want to do in Devise (just as an example... we can replace
> "Devise" with ''gem XYZ'' here)
>
> Do these resources exist? Or is grueling through the learning curve
> pretty much the best way to go about it?
>
> The only reason I ask this is because I''ve come to the conclusion
that
> IF you have 2-ish months to build a large application, and IF you are
> REALLY good at another platform... I am not convinced that Rails will
> help in the short term giving many of its documentation problems, out-
> of-date examples and general "gotchas" and "problems"
that seem to
> occur a lot more frequently than say in Java/Spring.
>
> I do fully admit that once you learn all the gotchas in Rails and the
> various plugins, and you know how to do "one of every complex
thing"
> possible, you will be MUCH faster than in Java/Spring regardless of
> how good you are in Java. But that probably means you need to get 1-2
> months of time under your belt using Ruby and Rails minimum.
>
> Anyway, I''ve probably rambled enough. If you have any good books/
> resources to help speed up my learning curve and take out a lot of
> guesswork and "solving weird problems in dark" type of issues,
that
> would be awesome.
>
> If you''d like to have discussion about other things, I''m
always fair
> game with that. LOL.
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yea the pragmatic programmers books on Rails are often considered the best. 

Although not about rails, if you want a good book about Ruby I''d
recommend O''Reilly''s book _The Ruby Programming Language_
(Flanagan / Matsumoto). I found that even though I had a lot of experience with
programming there are areas of Ruby where having a definitive book is really
good (like splats, procs & lambda, etc)

-Jason

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The Rails 3 Way is a must.  From pragprog, I believe there is a testing specific
book.

Banks

Sent from my iPhone

On May 22, 2011, at 7:07 AM, egervari
<ken.egervari-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> - Anything from PragProg.com
>> - The Rails 3 way is priceless
>> 
>> Kind Regards,
>> Chad Eubanks
>> The Code Boutique
> 
> Hi Chad ;)
> 
> Yeah, the Rails 3 Way looked like an interesting book. It had mixed
> reviews when I did some searching, so I wasn''t sure. I liked how
it
> wasn''t branded on being a book for beginners.
> 
> If I had to get *2* books from there, what would the other be?
> 
> -- 
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> 
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> Railstutorial.org is a great resource for learning testing with rspec.
 Pragprog.com has a great testing book.
>
> Banks
Yeah, I saw that website and it seemed like it was a little basic for
where I am at. I managed to do everything hes teaching in just a week
or so on my own, so I''m not sure how much I''d learn.

Do the PragProg books show both the tests and the working code?

I think Ryan Bate''s screencasts are pretty good (I''ve watched
lots
already... maybe 50 of them at least). I found them to be pretty
helpful. Sometimes they are out of date though.

One of the drawbacks to the Ryan Bate''s screencasts though is that
they doesn''t show the test code along side with the actual production
code. It''s a shame because in the "real world", you are
likely going
to want to write both.

I guess there''s a lot of "how to do something", but a very
small % of
"how to test the things we are trying to teach you." I finally
googling the "how to test" part to be a really big time-sink. The
"searching" takes more time than the actual testing :(

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If you really want to step your rails game up.  I would highly recommend
training from pragprog or big nerd ranch.

I did a week long training with big nerd ranch for rails and it was by far the
best resource I''ve used to developed myself.

Kind Regards,
Chad Eubanks
The Code Boutique

Sent from my iPhone

On May 22, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Nikhil Goyal
<goyal.nikhil89-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Rails 3 way is the way to go.
> For testing search for Michael Hartl tutorial. Its has some great
> examples for test driven development.
> You should also try looking at some very good open source rails
> projects on github. They have lots of testing examples and very up-to-
> date.
> 
> Combining these resources will great. As no single book will be up to
> date. Rails develop really very fast.
> 
> On May 22, 6:48 pm, egervari
<ken.egerv...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Rails seems like it''s a great platform... just the
documentation isn''t
>> as in-depth as I would like beyond the simplest cases.... and
"google"
>> is not necessary the best way to learn things because lots of forums
>> and blogs show you how to do things using earlier versions.
It''s not
>> always easy to separate what''s relevant from what
isn''t relevant. All
>> of this can make a person less productive rather than more productive.
>> 
>> So... are there any books that really help reduce the learning curve
>> and gotchas with developing COMPLEX applications with Rails 3?
>> 
>> Some criteria:
>> 
>> 1. I am not looking for a "how to" book. I am already 530
tests in and
>> understand quite a bit about rails already in the 2 weeks that
I''ve
>> been using. I''m a programmer of 19 years and have been
building web
>> apps for a long time.
>> 
>> 2. I am not looking for a book that spends 20%-50% of its pages
>> explaining how to program in OO... or what an MVC architecture is...
>> or what an ORM is. I can actually write these libraries/frameworks if
>> I really had the time, so understanding is not the problem ;)
>> 
>> 3. I am really more interested in a book or set of books/resources
>> that cover all the gotchas that you WILL come across when building
>> COMPLEX applications - something that is up-to-date.
>> 
>> 4. The real problem with examples and samples online is that they are
>> just too simple. I always find myself  I am really interested in books
>> that don''t cover the "simple" examples, but also the
"exceptions" to
>> the examples/scenarios that are likely most complex and highly
>> customized you are likely to see in a large application.
>> 
>> 5. I am really interested in books that don''t cover "how
to setup
>> devise", but rather, that cover the most useful customizations
you''d
>> ever want to do in Devise (just as an example... we can replace
>> "Devise" with ''gem XYZ'' here)
>> 
>> Do these resources exist? Or is grueling through the learning curve
>> pretty much the best way to go about it?
>> 
>> The only reason I ask this is because I''ve come to the
conclusion that
>> IF you have 2-ish months to build a large application, and IF you are
>> REALLY good at another platform... I am not convinced that Rails will
>> help in the short term giving many of its documentation problems, out-
>> of-date examples and general "gotchas" and
"problems" that seem to
>> occur a lot more frequently than say in Java/Spring.
>> 
>> I do fully admit that once you learn all the gotchas in Rails and the
>> various plugins, and you know how to do "one of every complex
thing"
>> possible, you will be MUCH faster than in Java/Spring regardless of
>> how good you are in Java. But that probably means you need to get 1-2
>> months of time under your belt using Ruby and Rails minimum.
>> 
>> Anyway, I''ve probably rambled enough. If you have any good
books/
>> resources to help speed up my learning curve and take out a lot of
>> guesswork and "solving weird problems in dark" type of
issues, that
>> would be awesome.
>> 
>> If you''d like to have discussion about other things,
I''m always fair
>> game with that. LOL.
> 
> -- 
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> You should also try looking at some very good open source rails
> projects on github. They have lots of testing examples and very up-to-
> date.
That sounds like a great idea! Do you know of any names of ones I
should look at? I am not even sure what is out there.

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Oh, how is the Rails Antipatterns book? Is it something a seasoned
developer in Java would get a lot out of, or is it something a good
web developer ought to know already?

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Diaspora, spree, radiant cms are the one I''m currently following.
On 23-May-2011 3:23 AM, "egervari"
<ken.egervari-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>> You should also try looking at some very good open source rails
>> projects on github. They have lots of testing examples and very up-to-
>> date.
>
> That sounds like a great idea! Do you know of any names of ones I
> should look at? I am not even sure what is out there.
>
> --
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