Rails - Dec 2009 - Why do so many Ruby/Rails developers use Macs?

I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never been
able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.

Any thoughts?

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Then why is it so hard for me to find just one of you guys for a Delaware
spot?  I need a ROR Mac Developer for a project with Bank of America in
Delaware..

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton525-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
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Ron at 704-975-2810

ron.brinson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
twitter =  rbrinson2810

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On Dec 4, 6:33 pm, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
Well a least one reason is that ruby on windows has historically been
not such a great proposition due to slower speed and hassle installing
gems with native extensions.

Fred
> Any thoughts?
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the short answer is because they''re smart :-). 

You have to remember that OS X is Unix with the best GUI.  The Unix platform is
far more mature than the Window core therefore more stable. Also, Unix was
originate by programmers for programmers

Hope that help. Also, if you''d ever spend some quality time use OS X
you''d never go back to Windows & I used Windows since 3.0 until
about 6 months ago. I''ll never run another Windows PC


------Original Message------
From: Jim Knowlton
To: Ruby on Rails: Talk
ReplyTo: rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
Subject: [Rails] Why do so many Ruby/Rails developers use Macs?
Sent: Dec 4, 2009 11:33 AM

I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never been
able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.

Any thoughts?

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Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

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Another reason the Mac has continued to be so popular is that has included Ruby,
Rails & SQLite out of the box for the past few years.  This means you can
have a working Rails environment on every new machine.  You can even do native
development (full GUI desktop applications) on the Mac in Ruby.

At a lower level, the typical language for Mac development, Objective-C, has
many structural similarities to Ruby (you can do the equivalent of mixing in
modules to any class at runtime) so there are general philosophies that are in
sync.

Finally, if you look at Rails alone... it''s premised on the idea of
keeping everything very simple to do & convention over configuration.....
which is very similar to the Mac philosophy of ease of use.

Niels


On Dec 4, 2009, at 2:49 PM, eric7435-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
wrote:
> the short answer is because they''re smart :-). 
> 
> You have to remember that OS X is Unix with the best GUI.  The Unix
platform is far more mature than the Window core therefore more stable. Also,
Unix was originate by programmers for programmers
> 
> Hope that help. Also, if you''d ever spend some quality time use OS
X you''d never go back to Windows & I used Windows since 3.0 until
about 6 months ago. I''ll never run another Windows PC
> 
> 
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jim Knowlton
> To: Ruby on Rails: Talk
> ReplyTo: rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> Subject: [Rails] Why do so many Ruby/Rails developers use Macs?
> Sent: Dec 4, 2009 11:33 AM
> 
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
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And! you''d probably find that a good portion of the non-Mac laptops at
those conferences were running an o/s other than Windows.

It''s similar to the reason that Graphic Designers are more likely to  
have Macs. The platform has a better environment, better tools for the  
actual work that matters.

-Rob

Rob Biedenharn		http://agileconsultingllc.com
Rob-xa9cJyRlE0mWcWVYNo9pwxS2lgjeYSpx@public.gmane.org

On Dec 4, 2009, at 2:49 PM, eric7435-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
wrote:
> the short answer is because they''re smart :-).
>
> You have to remember that OS X is Unix with the best GUI.  The Unix  
> platform is far more mature than the Window core therefore more  
> stable. Also, Unix was originate by programmers for programmers
>
> Hope that help. Also, if you''d ever spend some quality time use OS
X
> you''d never go back to Windows & I used Windows since 3.0
until
> about 6 months ago. I''ll never run another Windows PC
>
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jim Knowlton
> To: Ruby on Rails: Talk
> ReplyTo: rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> Subject: [Rails] Why do so many Ruby/Rails developers use Macs?
> Sent: Dec 4, 2009 11:33 AM
>
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> Any thoughts?



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So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have expensive
resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the U.S..
_______________________
        Agustin Viñao
www.agustinvinao.com.ar
   agustinvinao (Skype)


On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Rob Biedenharn
<Rob-GBZH0y1GwQfnZcttdmLDtcI/UQi/AW5J@public.gmane.org>wrote:
> And! you''d probably find that a good portion of the non-Mac
laptops at
> those conferences were running an o/s other than Windows.
>
> It''s similar to the reason that Graphic Designers are more likely
to
> have Macs. The platform has a better environment, better tools for the
> actual work that matters.
>
> -Rob
>
> Rob Biedenharn          http://agileconsultingllc.com
> Rob-xa9cJyRlE0mWcWVYNo9pwxS2lgjeYSpx@public.gmane.org
>
> On Dec 4, 2009, at 2:49 PM,
eric7435-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org wrote:
>
> > the short answer is because they''re smart :-).
> >
> > You have to remember that OS X is Unix with the best GUI.  The Unix
> > platform is far more mature than the Window core therefore more
> > stable. Also, Unix was originate by programmers for programmers
> >
> > Hope that help. Also, if you''d ever spend some quality time
use OS X
> > you''d never go back to Windows & I used Windows since 3.0
until
> > about 6 months ago. I''ll never run another Windows PC
> >
> >
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: Jim Knowlton
> > To: Ruby on Rails: Talk
> > ReplyTo: rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org
> > Subject: [Rails] Why do so many Ruby/Rails developers use Macs?
> > Sent: Dec 4, 2009 11:33 AM
> >
> > I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve
never been
> > able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> > contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> > percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> > conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
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Hi Ron,

On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 13:44 -0500, Ron Brinson wrote:
> Then why is it so hard for me to find just one of you guys for a
> Delaware spot?  
I can think of several potential reasons.

1) Your original posting did not follow the forum''s convention, clearly
posted on the Google Groups home page, that job postings be prefixed on
the subject line with [JOBS].  A lack of respect for the community''s
norms starts you off on the wrong foot.

2) Your posting included no information whatsoever regarding the
position.  While the US economy, in general, is in very poor shape, the
Rails ecosystem is quite healthy.  If you want to attract qualified
talent to your projects, you''ll probably want to spend a little time
''sprucing up'' your preso.  That, of course, presumes that
you''ve done
some homework wrt your audience.
> ... for a project with Bank of America ...
Ummmm... by itself, that''s doing you more harm than good.  If it were
me, I''d talk much more about the team.  Rails developers are generally
a
younger crowd.  Working for a Bank, well... not nearly as much fun as
working for a startup.  And Rails is about having fun while we work.
> in Delaware.. 
3)  Not sure how many Rails developers there are in Delaware.  You might
want to google ''Ruby Brigade Delaware'' to get started.

HTH,
Bill

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2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvinao-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have expensive
> resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the U.S..
> _______________________
Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other similar distributions.
That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.

Colin

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On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton525-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>wrote:
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
Jim, here are my reasons for selecting a Mac:

o the OS is built on very stable technologies like Unix

o the graphical user interface is great for delivering a better user
experience

o open source friendly

o can use both off the shelf and open source software

o in regards to the web, a better mirror to the platform I''m deploying
to
   i.e. most deployed web sites are running on Unix based systems

o most of the companies I have worked for were Unix based environments

o a very nice and free development environment in Xcode for building
desktop, iPhone, and MacRuby applications

o extensibility
   e.g. I can run Windows 7 Ultimate, Linux, other OS compatible
applications side by side with Mac OS applications using VMWare Fusion.
          I tend use a very nice tool called Rational Performance Tester on
Linux for simulating user load on a web site.  BTW, Rational Performance
         Tester is only supported on the Window and Linux platforms.

o the company, Apple, cares more about winning the quality battle than the
majority battle

In short, it''s about working in an environment that you enjoy which
provides
the options to expand.

Just my 2 cents,

-Conrad

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Macs are by fat the easiest way to get going in rails/ruby because  
it''s there out of the box. A few gem commands and you''re
rockin'' and
rollin''. Windows and Linux are easy to set up too but require a bit  
more setup work.

Ubuntu is good but you have to use the stuff in the repositories by  
default which is ok but not as good as issuing gem commands. Chances  
are good that you''ll deploy to *nix so you might as well learn to  
develop on it too

Also macs are just way nicer to work on day-to-day. I see slot more  
java devs using macs too these days.


--
Steven Elliott Jr

On Dec 4, 2009, at 1:33 PM, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton525-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
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> .
>
>
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I talked Mac in Argentina (reseller, not direct Mac Store) is expensive to
buy the equipment. Whoever knows the benefits of using Mac hardware knows it
is not the same team using a different brand with OSX.
The price of Macbook Pro 2.66 in Argentina is $ S 3300 and in U.S. u $ s
1999. And the reason is not taxes, is by middlemen.

Spanish mac reseller:
http://www.macstore.com.ar/producto.php?id=1615&idCategoria=1&idSubcategoria=2
(1 u$S = $3.82 argentine pesos)

Mac U.S. web:
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro
_______________________
        Agustin Viñao
www.agustinvinao.com.ar
   agustinvinao (Skype)


On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Colin Law
<clanlaw-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvinao-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> > So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have expensive
> > resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the U.S..
> > _______________________
>
> Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other similar distributions.
> That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.
>
> Colin
>
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On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras <
agustinvinao-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I talked Mac in Argentina (reseller, not direct Mac Store) is expensive to
> buy the equipment. Whoever knows the benefits of using Mac hardware knows
> it is not the same team using a different brand with OSX.
> The price of Macbook Pro 2.66 in Argentina is $ S 3300 and in U.S. u $ s
> 1999. And the reason is not taxes, is by middlemen.
>
> Spanish mac reseller:
>
>
http://www.macstore.com.ar/producto.php?id=1615&idCategoria=1&idSubcategoria=2
> (1 u$S = $3.82 argentine pesos)
>
> Mac U.S. web:
> http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro
> _______________________
>         Agustin Viñao
> www.agustinvinao.com.ar
>    agustinvinao (Skype)
>
>
Hi, you might want to pay a visit to the states if you know someone''s
that''s
traveling your
way, you might be able to make arrangements that way.  Here are a list of
states that do
not have sales tax:

Alaska
Delaware
Montana
New Hampshire
Oregon

Good luck,

-Conrad

>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Colin Law
<clanlaw-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> 2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvinao-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
>> > So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have
expensive
>> > resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the
U.S..
>> > _______________________
>>
>> Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other similar distributions.
>> That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.
>>
>> Colin
>>
>> --
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
>> "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
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I''ve only been doing Ruby on Rails and Ruby development for 4 weeks now
but from my experience so far all the tools I need either come with OSX 
or a built for OSX. So it''s just a lot less of a hassle to get up and 
running.

James.


Jim Knowlton wrote:
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
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2009/12/4 Steven Elliott Jr
<stevenelliott0623-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> Macs are by fat the easiest way to get going in rails/ruby because
> it''s there out of the box. A few gem commands and you''re
rockin'' and
> rollin''. Windows and Linux are easy to set up too but require a
bit
> more setup work.
>
> Ubuntu is good but you have to use the stuff in the repositories by
> default which is ok but not as good as issuing gem commands.
Not true, it is easy to install so that the gem commands can be used
in the normal way.  I use this script to install the lamp stack, mysql
ruby and rails (on ubuntu 9.10), it does not get much easier than
this.  It assumes that there is a folder ~/downloads

# this installs the lamp stack, the ^ is important. See
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel
sudo apt-get install lamp-server^
sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-auth-mysql phpmyadmin

# this derived from
http://www.hackido.com/2009/04/install-ruby-rails-on-ubuntu-904-jaunty.html
# bits for building stuff
cd ~
sudo apt-get install build-essential
# ruby and mysql stuff, this assumes that the lamp stack with mysql
has already been installed
sudo apt-get install ruby ri rdoc libmysql-ruby ruby1.8-dev irb1.8
libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl libmysql-ruby1.8 libmysqlclient15off
libnet-daemon-perl libplrpc-perl libreadline-ruby1.8 libruby1.8
rdoc1.8 ri1.8 ruby1.8 irb libopenssl-ruby libopenssl-ruby1.8
libhtml-template-perl
wget -N  -P ~/downloads
http://rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/60718/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
tar xvzf ~/downloads/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
cd rubygems-1.3.5
sudo ruby setup.rb
cd ..
rm -rf rubygems-1.3.5
echo "making symlinks - not sure if this will always be necessary,
must be done if gem -v does not work"
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/gem1.8 /usr/local/bin/gem
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ruby1.8 /usr/local/bin/ruby
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/rdoc1.8 /usr/local/bin/rdoc
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ri1.8 /usr/local/bin/ri
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/irb1.8 /usr/local/bin/irb
# rails latest version
sudo gem install rails

Colin

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" Macs are probably 10 percent of the computer market"

That would be the computer user market, not the computer professional
market.

Most professionals in any field use equipment that is different than
home users. Professional drivers, professional filmmakers,
professional chefs.

Being the most popular in the consumer market does not make an item
the best for a particular task.
Think of the best hamburger you ever ate. One that just thinking about
it makes your mouth water.

Did you think about a McDonald''s plain hamburger?

Why not? McDonald''s hamburgers are clearly the leaders in the market
place. They sell more than any other brand of hamburger. They are
adequate nutritionally and are reasonably priced.

Mac buyers spend all that extra money an pure fresh ground beef on
artisan baked rolls with fresh trimmings.
Linux users grill their own at home.

On Dec 4, 1:33 pm, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> Any thoughts?
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Anything is better than Windows to develop Rails.  Linux (Ubuntu) does
the job for me.  I''m not a Mac guy mainly because the hardware cost
much more than the equivalent (bogomips for bogomips) PC.

By the way, it''s a nice script Colin.  I have put something similar
together but it install rails and other development tools (SCM,
Database, Java, etc.) on Ubuntu using a dialogs (GUI + bash):
http://symbiosoft.net/ubuntu_devenv

Etienne.

On 5 déc, 04:56, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 2009/12/4 Steven Elliott Jr
<stevenelliott0...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
>
> > Macs are by fat the easiest way to get going in rails/ruby because
> > it''s there out of the box. A few gem commands and
you''re rockin'' and
> > rollin''. Windows and Linux are easy to set up too but require
a bit
> > more setup work.
>
> > Ubuntu is good but you have to use the stuff in the repositories by
> > default which is ok but not as good as issuing gem commands.
>
> Not true, it is easy to install so that the gem commands can be used
> in the normal way.  I use this script to install the lamp stack, mysql
> ruby and rails (on ubuntu 9.10), it does not get much easier than
> this.  It assumes that there is a folder ~/downloads
>
> # this installs the lamp stack, the ^ is important.
Seehttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel
> sudo apt-get install lamp-server^
> sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-auth-mysql phpmyadmin
>
> # this derived
fromhttp://www.hackido.com/2009/04/install-ruby-rails-on-ubuntu-904-jaunt...
> # bits for building stuff
> cd ~
> sudo apt-get install build-essential
> # ruby and mysql stuff, this assumes that the lamp stack with mysql
> has already been installed
> sudo apt-get install ruby ri rdoc libmysql-ruby ruby1.8-dev irb1.8
> libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl libmysql-ruby1.8 libmysqlclient15off
> libnet-daemon-perl libplrpc-perl libreadline-ruby1.8 libruby1.8
> rdoc1.8 ri1.8 ruby1.8 irb libopenssl-ruby libopenssl-ruby1.8
> libhtml-template-perl
> wget -N  -P
~/downloadshttp://rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/60718/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> tar xvzf ~/downloads/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> cd rubygems-1.3.5
> sudo ruby setup.rb
> cd ..
> rm -rf rubygems-1.3.5
> echo "making symlinks - not sure if this will always be necessary,
> must be done if gem -v does not work"
> sudo ln -s /usr/bin/gem1.8 /usr/local/bin/gem
> sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ruby1.8 /usr/local/bin/ruby
> sudo ln -s /usr/bin/rdoc1.8 /usr/local/bin/rdoc
> sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ri1.8 /usr/local/bin/ri
> sudo ln -s /usr/bin/irb1.8 /usr/local/bin/irb
> # rails latest version
> sudo gem install rails
>
> Colin
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you lost me on hamburger! - sorry! :)
But yeah ALL people i have met use macs.
now, am going to go for some fresh ground beef.


On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 1:24 PM, seanlynch
<sean.seanlynch-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> " Macs are probably 10 percent of the computer market"
>
> That would be the computer user market, not the computer professional
> market.
>
> Most professionals in any field use equipment that is different than
> home users. Professional drivers, professional filmmakers,
> professional chefs.
>
> Being the most popular in the consumer market does not make an item
> the best for a particular task.
> Think of the best hamburger you ever ate. One that just thinking about
> it makes your mouth water.
>
> Did you think about a McDonald''s plain hamburger?
>
> Why not? McDonald''s hamburgers are clearly the leaders in the
market
> place. They sell more than any other brand of hamburger. They are
> adequate nutritionally and are reasonably priced.
>
> Mac buyers spend all that extra money an pure fresh ground beef on
> artisan baked rolls with fresh trimmings.
> Linux users grill their own at home.
>
> On Dec 4, 1:33 pm, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve
never been
> > able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> > contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> > percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> > conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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Well I have been sceptical about Mac (Ubuntu user here), because a big part
of it is just brand, but now when I think about it there are some advantages
of using Mac over Ubuntu:
1) Photoshop has a version for mac, but not for Linux and as a freelancer I
have to deal with graphics from time to time.
2) Textmate. Haven''t used it myself, but from the podcasts
I''ve seen it
looks pretty sexy. Currently using gvim.

So when the time to buy a new laptop comes I will consider getting a mac.

Does anybody have any other arguments for using mac over ubuntu?

2009/12/5 esavard <savard.etienne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
> Anything is better than Windows to develop Rails.  Linux (Ubuntu) does
> the job for me.  I''m not a Mac guy mainly because the hardware
cost
> much more than the equivalent (bogomips for bogomips) PC.
>
> By the way, it''s a nice script Colin.  I have put something
similar
> together but it install rails and other development tools (SCM,
> Database, Java, etc.) on Ubuntu using a dialogs (GUI + bash):
> http://symbiosoft.net/ubuntu_devenv
>
> Etienne.
>
> On 5 déc, 04:56, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 2009/12/4 Steven Elliott Jr
<stevenelliott0...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> >
> > > Macs are by fat the easiest way to get going in rails/ruby
because
> > > it''s there out of the box. A few gem commands and
you''re rockin'' and
> > > rollin''. Windows and Linux are easy to set up too but
require a bit
> > > more setup work.
> >
> > > Ubuntu is good but you have to use the stuff in the repositories
by
> > > default which is ok but not as good as issuing gem commands.
> >
> > Not true, it is easy to install so that the gem commands can be used
> > in the normal way.  I use this script to install the lamp stack, mysql
> > ruby and rails (on ubuntu 9.10), it does not get much easier than
> > this.  It assumes that there is a folder ~/downloads
> >
> > # this installs the lamp stack, the ^ is important. Seehttps://
> help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel
> > sudo apt-get install lamp-server^
> > sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-auth-mysql phpmyadmin
> >
> > # this derived fromhttp://
> www.hackido.com/2009/04/install-ruby-rails-on-ubuntu-904-jaunt...
> > # bits for building stuff
> > cd ~
> > sudo apt-get install build-essential
> > # ruby and mysql stuff, this assumes that the lamp stack with mysql
> > has already been installed
> > sudo apt-get install ruby ri rdoc libmysql-ruby ruby1.8-dev irb1.8
> > libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl libmysql-ruby1.8 libmysqlclient15off
> > libnet-daemon-perl libplrpc-perl libreadline-ruby1.8 libruby1.8
> > rdoc1.8 ri1.8 ruby1.8 irb libopenssl-ruby libopenssl-ruby1.8
> > libhtml-template-perl
> > wget -N  -P ~/downloadshttp://
> rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/60718/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> > tar xvzf ~/downloads/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> > cd rubygems-1.3.5
> > sudo ruby setup.rb
> > cd ..
> > rm -rf rubygems-1.3.5
> > echo "making symlinks - not sure if this will always be
necessary,
> > must be done if gem -v does not work"
> > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/gem1.8 /usr/local/bin/gem
> > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ruby1.8 /usr/local/bin/ruby
> > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/rdoc1.8 /usr/local/bin/rdoc
> > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ri1.8 /usr/local/bin/ri
> > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/irb1.8 /usr/local/bin/irb
> > # rails latest version
> > sudo gem install rails
> >
> > Colin
>
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Well this was something that I found also a bit weird when I began
learning rails. I generally don''t like apple because they obligate you
to buy also the hardware for having their OS, programs and the like...

Except from all of that and most importantly, as a web developer I
need many versions of internet explorer to check how my sites are and
I don''t enjoy to have a virtual machine with windows to check them. So
in one corner stands rails installation in windows which isn''t that
difficult, and in the other stands a virtual machine installation with
windows and all the internet explorer versions to check the sites.
Internet explorer is the most used browser (unfortunately) so it is
necessary to check your site there and it is easy with windows to have
all the versions and generally all the popular browsers. So windows
and rails is ok I think and I personally prefer it from OS X :).


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On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Gintautas Šimkus
<dihitales-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Does anybody have any other arguments for using mac over ubuntu?
I bought a Mac laptop when I had to spend significant time on the
road, because I can test with browsers on all the major platforms:
Mac (native) and Linux/Windows VMs, all on one box.

And as you said, there are more software options.

FWIW,
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twitter: @hassan

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On 2009-12-05T17:36:40, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
> I bought a Mac laptop when I had to spend significant time on the
> road, because I can test with browsers on all the major platforms:
> Mac (native) and Linux/Windows VMs, all on one box.
I guess "major" is subjective and depends on your user base.  At 
work it breaks down along these lines (we do not test browsers 
across different OSes): 82% IE, 13% Firefox, 3% Safari, and 1% 
Chrome.

Apples makes Safari available for Windows.  Both Chrome and 
Safari use WebKit as their engine.  There is also Lunascape which 
support all the engines on Windows.

ies4linux with the help of wine gets you IE 6, 5.5, 5 on Linux.  
Chrome is in beta for Linux, if you do not want to use that you 
Chromium might be a suitable alternative.


/Allan
-- 
Allan Wind
Life Integrity, LLC
<http://lifeintegrity.com>

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On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Allan Wind
<allan_wind-iEsJZalW0vV5uzFS8dxClQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Apples makes Safari available for Windows.
True now, but that wasn''t the case when I got my first Mac. And I
have no idea if they are truly equivalent.
> Both Chrome and Safari use WebKit as their engine.
And exhibit very different behavior; I certainly wouldn''t consider them
equivalent for testing purposes.
> ies4linux with the help of wine gets you IE 6, 5.5, 5 on Linux.
I''ve never tried it, but I''ve seen reports of major behavior
discrepancies
between those and the "real thing". And at this point IE below 6.0 is
pretty much a non-factor; you need to test in IE 8, 7, and possibly 6
depending on target audience.

With easy (and cheap/free) virtualization available, there doesn''t seem
to me to be a good reason not to use it to check your work on browsers
in their "native" environments.

YMMV,
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You probably should test across OSs.  I''ve found some things that work
fine in Firefox for Windows, but fail on Firefox for Mac & vice-versa. 
There is close parity across OSs for the browsers, but there are definitely
differences at times.

On Dec 5, 2009, at 9:57 PM, Allan Wind wrote:
> On 2009-12-05T17:36:40, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
>> I bought a Mac laptop when I had to spend significant time on the
>> road, because I can test with browsers on all the major platforms:
>> Mac (native) and Linux/Windows VMs, all on one box.
> 
> I guess "major" is subjective and depends on your user base.  At 
> work it breaks down along these lines (we do not test browsers 
> across different OSes): 82% IE, 13% Firefox, 3% Safari, and 1% 
> Chrome.
> 
> Apples makes Safari available for Windows.  Both Chrome and 
> Safari use WebKit as their engine.  There is also Lunascape which 
> support all the engines on Windows.
> 
> ies4linux with the help of wine gets you IE 6, 5.5, 5 on Linux.  
> Chrome is in beta for Linux, if you do not want to use that you 
> Chromium might be a suitable alternative.
> 
> 
> /Allan
> -- 
> Allan Wind
> Life Integrity, LLC
> <http://lifeintegrity.com>
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On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Yiannis
<istoselidas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Well this was something that I found also a bit weird when I began
> learning rails. I generally don''t like apple because they obligate
you
> to buy also the hardware for having their OS, programs and the like...
>
>
I have heard this argument so many times.  Apple has been operating
like this from the beginning and I bet there''s a lot less code bloat in
their
OS because they do not have to work with so many different configurations.
Next, I can say the same thing about a cars like Ferrari, Porche, or
Lamborghini in
that many people want one but they want it at half the price.  In short, you
buy what you can afford and move on.

> Except from all of that and most importantly, as a web developer I
> need many versions of internet explorer to check how my sites are and
> I don''t enjoy to have a virtual machine with windows to check
them.

Yes, I tend to do the same with VMWare Fusion but I''m not concerned
with
working
with every browser but a subset of browsers that support the functionality
that I need
for my application.  For example, you''ll see on many sites something
like
this:

This website is best supported by using Firefox 3.x, Safari 4.x, ...

Just my 2 cents,

-Conrad

> So
> in one corner stands rails installation in windows which isn''t
that
> difficult, and in the other stands a virtual machine installation with
> windows and all the internet explorer versions to check the sites.
> Internet explorer is the most used browser (unfortunately) so it is
> necessary to check your site there and it is easy with windows to have
> all the versions and generally all the popular browsers. So windows
> and rails is ok I think and I personally prefer it from OS X :).
>
>
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I bought a Macbook Pro from Argentina by u$2200 through
megadistributors.com
Just only u$300 more than US. And they delivered it at your door home.

And why Mac for Rail development ? Did you use combination Mac +
Texmate ? It''s awesome.

DHH and his team were developed Rails using that combination.

Cheers.
Aldo Nievas
www.satio.com.ar
aldo.nievas (skype)


On Dec 4, 10:16 pm, Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I talked Mac in Argentina (reseller, not direct Mac Store) is expensive to
> buy the equipment. Whoever knows the benefits of using Mac hardware knows
it
> is not the same team using a different brand with OSX.
> The price of Macbook Pro 2.66 in Argentina is $ S 3300 and in U.S. u $ s
> 1999. And the reason is not taxes, is by middlemen.
>
> Spanish mac
reseller:http://www.macstore.com.ar/producto.php?id=1615&idCategoria=1&idSubca...
> (1 u$S = $3.82 argentine pesos)
>
> Mac U.S.
web:http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro
> _______________________
>         Agustin Viñaowww.agustinvinao.com.ar
>    agustinvinao (Skype)
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> > > So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have
expensive
> > > resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the
U.S..
> > > _______________________
>
> > Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other similar distributions.
> > That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.
>
> > Colin
>
> > --
>
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Groups
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> On Dec 4, 6:33 pm, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve
never been
> > able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> > contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> > percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> > conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
> >
>
> Well a least one reason is that ruby on windows has historically been not
such a
> great proposition due to slower speed and hassle installing gems with
native
> extensions.
>
> Fred
>
True enough, alas.  But thanks to the efforts of Luis Lavena and the others
working on rake-compiler and the new rubyinstaller for windows
(rubyinstaller.org), things are getting better and better for windows based
rubyists.  1.9 is noticeably faster, and DevKit lets gem developers on
non-windows platforms easily include windows-compatible binary components
w/their gems.

-Roy

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Colin,

If you were running on Ububtu, what editor would you use? -RVince



On Dec 4, 4:32 pm, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
>
> > So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have expensive
> > resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the U.S..
> > _______________________
>
> Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other similar distributions.
> That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.
>
> Colin
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I would use emacs

2009/12/8 RVince <rvince99-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
> Colin,
>
> If you were running on Ububtu, what editor would you use? -RVince
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 4:32 pm, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> >
> > > So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have
expensive
> > > resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the
U.S..
> > > _______________________
> >
> > Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other similar distributions.
> > That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.
> >
> > Colin
>
> --
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2009/12/8 RVince
<rvince99-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>:
> Colin,
>
> If you were running on Ububtu, what editor would you use? -RVince
I am, I use jEdit, which I can also use when I have to be in Windows,
but there are choices on Ubuntu to suit all tastes.

Colin

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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
RVince wrote:
<blockquote
 cite="mid:cda3728f-7a1f-417d-bf51-9d0cd7a5af5c-/CohIOgBbkkwq+9lhVFwFGB/v6IoIuQBVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org"
 type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">Colin,

If you were running on Ububtu, what editor would you use? -RVince



On Dec 4, 4:32&nbsp;pm, Colin Law <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org">&lt;clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org&gt;</a>
wrote:
  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Vi&ntilde;ao
Laseras <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:agustinvi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org">&lt;agustinvi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org&gt;</a>:

    </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">So sad that Mac not in countries like
Argentina, only have expensive
resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the U.S..
_______________________
      </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap="">Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other
similar distributions.
That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.

Colin</pre>
  </blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I use vi (vim or gvim) usually with occasional
forays into emacs.  I have used vi for 25 years or more and find it meets most
coding needs.
</pre>
</body>
</html>

<p></p>

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On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Norm Scherer
<normscherer-ihVZJaRskl1bRRN4PJnoQQ@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> RVince wrote:
>
> Colin,
>
> If you were running on Ububtu, what editor would you use? -RVince
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 4:32 pm, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
> 2009/12/4 Agustin Nicolas Viñao Laseras
<agustinvi...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
>
>
>
> So sad that Mac not in countries like Argentina, only have expensive
> resellers, we must pay price of 150% or more compared with the U.S..
> _______________________
>
>
> Then you could use Ubuntu or one of the other similar distributions.
> That is good for RoR and cheaper, with excellent community support.
>
> Colin
>
> I use vi (vim or gvim) usually with occasional forays into emacs.  I have
> used vi for 25 years or more and find it meets most coding needs.
>
+1 for vim with the right plugins. It is fully featured, light,
portable, flexible and productive (after a learning curve). Learining
VIM might ease your requirements for coding drastically. E.g. with a
small tarball (~300K) you can have a code editor with Syntax Highlite,
Code Navigation (Similar to Ctrl+Click in Eclipse), Autocompletion,
Code Snippets, Filesystem Tree operations, VCS integration and more.
(Of course, you''ll get tabs, horizontal/vertical split multi buffer
edition, command line interaction, block text selection, regexp based
search and replace, and many more nice features from vim itself)

Of course it has a learning curve, but it definately worth it.

-- 
Leonardo Mateo.
There''s no place like ~

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I use a Mac because i was tired of virus and BSOD on Windows and i  
dont have Adobe Flash running on Linux. On a Mac, everything just  
works!!
Before Ruby on Rails i develop with Coldfusion (that is nice!), but  
develop with RoR is fun and very nice! :)


Em 08/12/2009, às 21:45, RVince
<rvince99-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> escreveu:
> Ron,
>
> I suspect your client doesn''t want to pay what it costs to get
that
> type of skill in/to that location. The H1''s are gone (the dollar
> debacle drove lots of offshore talent away, along with the cost of a
> Visa here) and despite the economy, lots of us aren''t really
looking
> to work for a lot of the prevailing wages. I can;t tell you how many
> java positions I''ve turned down in recent months because they just
> aren;t willing to pay enough to get me motivated to do the job.
>
> Just as people griping about homes they cannot sell, who, if they cut
> the price to the market, would sell it in short order, similarly with
> labor. -RVince
>
> On Dec 4, 1:44 pm, Ron Brinson
<ron.brin...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Then why is it so hard for me to find just one of you guys for a  
>> Delaware
>> spot?  I need a ROR Mac Developer for a project with Bank of  
>> America in
>> Delaware..
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Jim Knowlton  
>> <jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve
never
>>> been
>>> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
>>> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably
10
>>> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
>>> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>> --
>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Ron at 704-975-2810
>>
>> ron.brin...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
>> twitter =  rbrinson2810
>
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> +1 for vim with the right plugins. It is fully featured, light,
> portable, flexible and productive (after a learning curve). Learining
http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/curves.jpg  :-)

If you go the vim route, look into the vim-ruby gem as well.  Good  
stuff.

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Ron,

I suspect your client doesn''t want to pay what it costs to get that
type of skill in/to that location. The H1''s are gone (the dollar
debacle drove lots of offshore talent away, along with the cost of a
Visa here) and despite the economy, lots of us aren''t really looking
to work for a lot of the prevailing wages. I can;t tell you how many
java positions I''ve turned down in recent months because they just
aren;t willing to pay enough to get me motivated to do the job.

Just as people griping about homes they cannot sell, who, if they cut
the price to the market, would sell it in short order, similarly with
labor. -RVince

On Dec 4, 1:44 pm, Ron Brinson
<ron.brin...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Then why is it so hard for me to find just one of you guys for a Delaware
> spot?  I need a ROR Mac Developer for a project with Bank of America in
> Delaware..
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve
never been
> > able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> > contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> > percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> > conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> > Any thoughts?
>
> > --
>
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>
> --
>
> Ron at 704-975-2810
>
> ron.brin...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
> twitter =  rbrinson2810
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2009/12/8 RVince
<rvince99-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>:
> Colin,
>
> If you were running on Ububtu, what editor would you use? -RVince
>
Vim is probably the best choice, but I just want to put a plug out
there for Gmate (http://github.com/lexrupy/gmate). It''s by no means
perfect, but it''s impressive what a few Gedit plugins can achieve.

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Gedit also has a set of plugins that make it very useful for Ruby on
Rails.

See:
Make gedit behave (almost) like textmate:
http://rubymm.blogspot.com/2007/08/make-gedit-behave-roughly-like-textmate.html

textmate like gedit in a few steps:
http://grigio.org/pimp_my_gedit_was_textmate_linux

-sean

On Dec 9, 3:45 am, Tom Stuart
<mortwa...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 2009/12/8 RVince <rvinc...-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>:
>
> > Colin,
>
> > If you were running on Ububtu, what editor would you use? -RVince
>
> Vim is probably the best choice, but I just want to put a plug out
> there for Gmate (http://github.com/lexrupy/gmate). It''s by no
means
> perfect, but it''s impressive what a few Gedit plugins can achieve.
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Jim, maybe this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTM19XLnzPU  can
explain ;)

regards.



2009/12/4 Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton525-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
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On Dec 4, 1:33 pm, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve never
been
> able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
Most people learn by example.  I suspect that the reason most Rubyists
use Mac''s is because the people they learned Ruby from (and/or admired
for their Ruby skills)  used Mac''s.  Why those people used
Mac''s is
anyone''s guess, but I would speculate that there exists a strong
''contrarian'' trait in many early adopters.  Mac''s are
THE great
''contrarian'' IT statement.  This trait may also possibly
account for
why the early adopters picked up the Ruby language to begin with.

Personally, I have worked with Ruby on all three of the major Ruby
development platforms (Linux, OS-X and MS-Windows XP).  I simply do
not see all that much difference between them, ONCE one has customized
each environment to ones own taste.  To be frank, I have never really
taken to Apple''s ''Aqua/Finder'' windowing environment
and that is one
of the reasons (out of very, very many) that I found MS-Vista so
repellent.

On my MS-Windows laptop I use the CYGWIN environment together with VIM
(windows installer version with the vivid_chalk plugin) and POSTGRESQL
(also the windows installer version). Between the three of these I
essentially have an identical duplicate of my CentOS-5.4 desktop
environment wherever I travel.    Since most of my business associates
(nearly all non-developer, non-IT types) use MS-Windows themselves,
this arrangement allows me to easily work within their corporate
standard MS-windows products on site and yet still retain the
convenience of a Linux-like environment for everything else.

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I would be surprised if many programmers bought Macs, having owned something
else presumably, just to run a language. Ruby was available on all platforms
from the off (or at least since the article in Dr Dobbs). In my experience a
lot of web developers and graphics people like Macs and Rails is a web
framework. So Ruby, via Rails, caught on with Mac users who are not shy
about telling the world about things they think are great.

Community and Evangelism tend to go hand in hand with Mac users :)

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I really don''t understand why giving so many importance to Hardware
and Software.

What really matters IMHO is People and his Ideas, from Matz to we all.

I have written something about that here:

http://marcricblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/ruby-on-rails-for-sale-under-2500.html

And here:

http://marcricblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-matters-most-size-or-pleasure.html

I do use Windows so far with no problems (thanks to Luis Lavena), if I
need to change for any reason, will never go to an even more
proprietary O.S. (OS-X only runs on Mac hardware...), will go to any
Linux flavor in a hardware of my choice and budget.

Regards.

On Dec 14, 2:20 pm, byrnejb
<byrn...-fqAF1SpE7daWxEb2tNKyrg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> On Dec 4, 1:33 pm, Jim Knowlton
<jknowlton...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > I am a QA engineer who works in Ruby quite a bit, and I''ve
never been
> > able to figure out...why is there a disproportionately large
> > contingent of Mac users among Ruby developers?  Macs are probably 10
> > percent of the computer market, but every time I go to a Ruby
> > conference, probably 80 percent of the laptops there are Macs.
>
> Most people learn by example.  I suspect that the reason most Rubyists
> use Mac''s is because the people they learned Ruby from (and/or
admired
> for their Ruby skills)  used Mac''s.  Why those people used
Mac''s is
> anyone''s guess, but I would speculate that there exists a strong
> ''contrarian'' trait in many early adopters.
 Mac''s are THE great
> ''contrarian'' IT statement.  This trait may also possibly
account for
> why the early adopters picked up the Ruby language to begin with.
>
> Personally, I have worked with Ruby on all three of the major Ruby
> development platforms (Linux, OS-X and MS-Windows XP).  I simply do
> not see all that much difference between them, ONCE one has customized
> each environment to ones own taste.  To be frank, I have never really
> taken to Apple''s ''Aqua/Finder'' windowing
environment and that is one
> of the reasons (out of very, very many) that I found MS-Vista so
> repellent.
>
> On my MS-Windows laptop I use the CYGWIN environment together with VIM
> (windows installer version with the vivid_chalk plugin) and POSTGRESQL
> (also the windows installer version). Between the three of these I
> essentially have an identical duplicate of my CentOS-5.4 desktop
> environment wherever I travel.    Since most of my business associates
> (nearly all non-developer, non-IT types) use MS-Windows themselves,
> this arrangement allows me to easily work within their corporate
> standard MS-windows products on site and yet still retain the
> convenience of a Linux-like environment for everything else.
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On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, MarcRic wrote:
> I do use Windows so far with no problems (thanks to Luis Lavena), if I
> need to change for any reason, will never go to an even more
> proprietary O.S. (OS-X only runs on Mac hardware...), will go to any
> Linux flavor in a hardware of my choice and budget.
I think the fact that Macs come with lots of developer-friendly tools 
(ssh, vi, ruby, etc) makes them more useful out of the box than a Windows 
machine (which will require you download tons of stuff just to have an 
equivalent devlopment environment).



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i think OSX is suite with programmer. special if you need  make slide,you
can use  keynote. this is killer app.

2009/12/15 Eno <rails-0tr1fCYfOsfR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org>
> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, MarcRic wrote:
>
> > I do use Windows so far with no problems (thanks to Luis Lavena), if I
> > need to change for any reason, will never go to an even more
> > proprietary O.S. (OS-X only runs on Mac hardware...), will go to any
> > Linux flavor in a hardware of my choice and budget.
>
> I think the fact that Macs come with lots of developer-friendly tools
> (ssh, vi, ruby, etc) makes them more useful out of the box than a Windows
> machine (which will require you download tons of stuff just to have an
> equivalent devlopment environment).
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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-- 
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E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com

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Because Rails developer wants to be fashion. lol

Em 15/12/2009, às 03:36, tommy xiao escreveu:
> i think OSX is suite with programmer. special if you need  make  
> slide,you can use  keynote. this is killer app.
>
> 2009/12/15 Eno <rails-0tr1fCYfOsfR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org>
> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, MarcRic wrote:
>
> > I do use Windows so far with no problems (thanks to Luis Lavena),  
> if I
> > need to change for any reason, will never go to an even more
> > proprietary O.S. (OS-X only runs on Mac hardware...), will go to any
> > Linux flavor in a hardware of my choice and budget.
>
> I think the fact that Macs come with lots of developer-friendly tools
> (ssh, vi, ruby, etc) makes them more useful out of the box than a  
> Windows
> machine (which will require you download tons of stuff just to have an
> equivalent devlopment environment).
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
> Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
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>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> tommy xiao
> E-mail: xiaods(AT)gmail.com
>
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Atenciosamente,

Diego Brito
Consultor em Marketing Estratégico

Blog Pessoal: www.diegobrito.com.br
Consultoria: www.d2bconsultoria.com.br
Twitter: http://twitter.com/diegodebrito

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On Dec 5, 6:24 pm, seanlynch
<sean.seanly...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Mac buyers spend all that extra money an pure fresh ground beef on
> artisan baked rolls with fresh trimmings.
> Linux users grill their own at home.
Yeah, and we have a thriving recipe-swapping community ;)

Great analogy btw

Taryn

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Hey Gintautas,

You stole my points. They were good points (-.

I also use Ubuntu and have a separate workstation for Photoshop/
Windows. This other workstation has plenty of other uses that justify
its existence, but the sheer fact that I need two workstations just to
have couple dozens terminals opened and have Photoshop at the same
time is giving me shivers.

BTW by "those other uses" I mean: Ubuntu through VirtualBox running
tests for the application. And it''s an extra monitor so... couple
dozens terminals more! Just don''t tell me that MacBook is mobile while
my environment is not. My setup would also be mobile if I only had a
camel.

I think I should have a Mac just because most of developers I
collaborate with and clients in the U.S. use them. Only I''d need to
learn all quirks of a Mac, and you know, we developers are lazy.
Fortunately my current team (Rails team in Sage Software) settled on
Ubuntu as well.

Cheers,
Wojciech

--
http://twitter.com/WojciechK

On Dec 5, 8:49 pm, Gintautas Šimkus
<dihita...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Well I have been sceptical about Mac (Ubuntu user here), because a big part
> of it is just brand, but now when I think about it there are some
advantages
> of using Mac over Ubuntu:
> 1) Photoshop has a version for mac, but not for Linux and as a freelancer I
> have to deal with graphics from time to time.
> 2) Textmate. Haven''t used it myself, but from the podcasts
I''ve seen it
> looks pretty sexy. Currently using gvim.
>
> So when the time to buy a new laptop comes I will consider getting a mac.
>
> Does anybody have any other arguments for using mac over ubuntu?
>
> 2009/12/5 esavard
<savard.etie...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>
> > Anything is better than Windows to develop Rails.  Linux (Ubuntu) does
> > the job for me.  I''m not a Mac guy mainly because the
hardware cost
> > much more than the equivalent (bogomips for bogomips) PC.
>
> > By the way, it''s a nice script Colin.  I have put something
similar
> > together but it install rails and other development tools (SCM,
> > Database, Java, etc.) on Ubuntu using a dialogs (GUI + bash):
> >http://symbiosoft.net/ubuntu_devenv
>
> > Etienne.
>
> > On 5 déc, 04:56, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > 2009/12/4 Steven Elliott Jr
<stevenelliott0...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
>
> > > > Macs are by fat the easiest way to get going in rails/ruby
because
> > > > it''s there out of the box. A few gem commands and
you''re rockin'' and
> > > > rollin''. Windows and Linux are easy to set up too
but require a bit
> > > > more setup work.
>
> > > > Ubuntu is good but you have to use the stuff in the
repositories by
> > > > default which is ok but not as good as issuing gem commands.
>
> > > Not true, it is easy to install so that the gem commands can be
used
> > > in the normal way.  I use this script to install the lamp stack,
mysql
> > > ruby and rails (on ubuntu 9.10), it does not get much easier than
> > > this.  It assumes that there is a folder ~/downloads
>
> > > # this installs the lamp stack, the ^ is important. Seehttps://
> > help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel
> > > sudo apt-get install lamp-server^
> > > sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-auth-mysql phpmyadmin
>
> > > # this derived fromhttp://
> >www.hackido.com/2009/04/install-ruby-rails-on-ubuntu-904-jaunt...
> > > # bits for building stuff
> > > cd ~
> > > sudo apt-get install build-essential
> > > # ruby and mysql stuff, this assumes that the lamp stack with
mysql
> > > has already been installed
> > > sudo apt-get install ruby ri rdoc libmysql-ruby ruby1.8-dev
irb1.8
> > > libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl libmysql-ruby1.8
libmysqlclient15off
> > > libnet-daemon-perl libplrpc-perl libreadline-ruby1.8 libruby1.8
> > > rdoc1.8 ri1.8 ruby1.8 irb libopenssl-ruby libopenssl-ruby1.8
> > > libhtml-template-perl
> > > wget -N  -P ~/downloadshttp://
> > rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/60718/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> > > tar xvzf ~/downloads/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> > > cd rubygems-1.3.5
> > > sudo ruby setup.rb
> > > cd ..
> > > rm -rf rubygems-1.3.5
> > > echo "making symlinks - not sure if this will always be
necessary,
> > > must be done if gem -v does not work"
> > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/gem1.8 /usr/local/bin/gem
> > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ruby1.8 /usr/local/bin/ruby
> > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/rdoc1.8 /usr/local/bin/rdoc
> > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ri1.8 /usr/local/bin/ri
> > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/irb1.8 /usr/local/bin/irb
> > > # rails latest version
> > > sudo gem install rails
>
> > > Colin
>
> > --
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Rails:
Makes common decisions for you so you can focus on the end result.
Works great for 99% of cases, but if you want to do your own thing for
special cases it''s not hard to do.

OS X:
Makes common decisions for you so you can focus on the end result.
Works great for 99% of cases, but if you want to do your own thing for
special cases it''s not hard to do.

On Dec 15 2009, 10:59 am, Wojciech Kruszewski
<wojci...-HCIsJdtRHLg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Hey Gintautas,
>
> You stole my points. They were good points (-.
>
> I also use Ubuntu and have a separate workstation for Photoshop/
> Windows. This other workstation has plenty of other uses that justify
> its existence, but the sheer fact that I need two workstations just to
> have couple dozens terminals opened and have Photoshop at the same
> time is giving me shivers.
>
> BTW by "those other uses" I mean: Ubuntu through VirtualBox
running
> tests for the application. And it''s an extra monitor so... couple
> dozens terminals more! Just don''t tell me that MacBook is mobile
while
> my environment is not. My setup would also be mobile if I only had a
> camel.
>
> I think I should have a Mac just because most of developers I
> collaborate with and clients in the U.S. use them. Only I''d need
to
> learn all quirks of a Mac, and you know, we developers are lazy.
> Fortunately my current team (Rails team in Sage Software) settled on
> Ubuntu as well.
>
> Cheers,
> Wojciech
>
> --http://twitter.com/WojciechK
>
> On Dec 5, 8:49 pm, Gintautas Šimkus
<dihita...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Well I have been sceptical about Mac (Ubuntu user here), because a big
part
> > of it is just brand, but now when I think about it there are some
advantages
> > of using Mac over Ubuntu:
> > 1) Photoshop has a version for mac, but not for Linux and as a
freelancer I
> > have to deal with graphics from time to time.
> > 2) Textmate. Haven''t used it myself, but from the podcasts
I''ve seen it
> > looks pretty sexy. Currently using gvim.
>
> > So when the time to buy a new laptop comes I will consider getting a
mac.
>
> > Does anybody have any other arguments for using mac over ubuntu?
>
> > 2009/12/5 esavard
<savard.etie...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>
> > > Anything is better than Windows to develop Rails.  Linux (Ubuntu)
does
> > > the job for me.  I''m not a Mac guy mainly because the
hardware cost
> > > much more than the equivalent (bogomips for bogomips) PC.
>
> > > By the way, it''s a nice script Colin.  I have put
something similar
> > > together but it install rails and other development tools (SCM,
> > > Database, Java, etc.) on Ubuntu using a dialogs (GUI + bash):
> > >http://symbiosoft.net/ubuntu_devenv
>
> > > Etienne.
>
> > > On 5 déc, 04:56, Colin Law
<clan...-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > > 2009/12/4 Steven Elliott Jr
<stevenelliott0...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
>
> > > > > Macs are by fat the easiest way to get going in
rails/ruby because
> > > > > it''s there out of the box. A few gem commands
and you''re rockin'' and
> > > > > rollin''. Windows and Linux are easy to set up
too but require a bit
> > > > > more setup work.
>
> > > > > Ubuntu is good but you have to use the stuff in the
repositories by
> > > > > default which is ok but not as good as issuing gem
commands.
>
> > > > Not true, it is easy to install so that the gem commands can
be used
> > > > in the normal way.  I use this script to install the lamp
stack, mysql
> > > > ruby and rails (on ubuntu 9.10), it does not get much easier
than
> > > > this.  It assumes that there is a folder ~/downloads
>
> > > > # this installs the lamp stack, the ^ is important.
Seehttps://
> > > help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel
> > > > sudo apt-get install lamp-server^
> > > > sudo apt-get install libapache2-mod-auth-mysql phpmyadmin
>
> > > > # this derived fromhttp://
> > >www.hackido.com/2009/04/install-ruby-rails-on-ubuntu-904-jaunt...
> > > > # bits for building stuff
> > > > cd ~
> > > > sudo apt-get install build-essential
> > > > # ruby and mysql stuff, this assumes that the lamp stack
with mysql
> > > > has already been installed
> > > > sudo apt-get install ruby ri rdoc libmysql-ruby ruby1.8-dev
irb1.8
> > > > libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl libmysql-ruby1.8
libmysqlclient15off
> > > > libnet-daemon-perl libplrpc-perl libreadline-ruby1.8
libruby1.8
> > > > rdoc1.8 ri1.8 ruby1.8 irb libopenssl-ruby libopenssl-ruby1.8
> > > > libhtml-template-perl
> > > > wget -N  -P ~/downloadshttp://
> > > rubyforge.org/frs/download.php/60718/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> > > > tar xvzf ~/downloads/rubygems-1.3.5.tgz
> > > > cd rubygems-1.3.5
> > > > sudo ruby setup.rb
> > > > cd ..
> > > > rm -rf rubygems-1.3.5
> > > > echo "making symlinks - not sure if this will always be
necessary,
> > > > must be done if gem -v does not work"
> > > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/gem1.8 /usr/local/bin/gem
> > > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ruby1.8 /usr/local/bin/ruby
> > > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/rdoc1.8 /usr/local/bin/rdoc
> > > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/ri1.8 /usr/local/bin/ri
> > > > sudo ln -s /usr/bin/irb1.8 /usr/local/bin/irb
> > > > # rails latest version
> > > > sudo gem install rails
>
> > > > Colin
>
> > > --
>
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Jarin Udom wrote:
> Rails:
> Makes common decisions for you so you can focus on the end result.
> Works great for 99% of cases, but if you want to do your own thing for
> special cases it''s not hard to do.
> 
> OS X:
> Makes common decisions for you so you can focus on the end result.
> Works great for 99% of cases, but if you want to do your own thing for
> special cases it''s not hard to do.
Windows:
Makes common decisions for you so you can focus on the end result.
Guesses wrong for 99% of cases, and it is a bitch to make it do what you 
want it to do.  Ultimately, you give up and redefine "wrong" to be
"right."

Linux:
Historically it did not make *any* decisions for you.  With "modern" 
distributions it now offers reasonable defaults.  If you are smart, you 
decide to accept the defaults.  You *always* do your own thing.  Turn 
the dial to 11.

:-D

gvb


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