Rails - Nov 2007 - What is the weakness of Ruby? How is the execution speed of Ruby?

Is It much slower than JAVA in regard of the execution speed?
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I though briefly about taking yet another stab at this very often
asked question. But, I decided to just let someone else speak for me
this this.

http://damienkatz.net/2006/05/signs_youre_a_c.html

See the 5 bullet down from the top. And you might enjoy a quick read
through the rest of them too.

I also, personally, very much enjoyed this comment to that article:

-------------
You less-code fanatics! Soon you will be writing so much less code
that it will converge on 0 lines proving that your so-called
productivity is an illusion. It takes lots of code to implement proper
BPEL/WS-*/EJB/MVC/J2EE/*** applications that leverage every pattern in
the book! That''s the goal. If you happen to produce a working
application as a side effect, you can always re-factor it out.
-- Enterprisey Architecty, May 9, 2006 12:33 AM
-------------

I just about split my gut and spilled my innards. Mostly because I
live, every day, in this world.

On Nov 29, 1:16 am, steven
<mailtumen...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Is It much slower than JAVA in regard of the execution speed?
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steven wrote:
> Is It much slower than JAVA in regard of the execution speed?
Well, gosh, java is not that slow. Those day''s are from the
slow cpu''s of years ago.  I was a java guy.  In java, you never
really got help, you got some guy telling you that you should
know everything there is to know about every object.  And I would
say, "I just want to bold the header in the table".  I had to get
into abstract models and default models, in Java Swing.

Scripting languages are all the craze, for good reason.

Most, traditional programs, like java, have an intense learning curve.
Scripting languages can get you there faster in coding time,
and learning time.

The CPU''s are fast enough to keep up.

So, now, you just have to worry about what scripting language.
Ruby is fun.  And the web server you use really seems to
have an impact on Ruby.

Then, there is Django (the python dudes), that seems to be from
a guys doing work for online news.  (lawrence)  but i am not 100% sure.
could be a nice, fast, alternative, if you need it.

I think the question should be:  which scripting language...

The days of the C guys blasting Java guys for speed, is pretty much 
over.
And there are not a lot of C projects anymore.  Look on Dice.com.  Maybe 
in the gaming world?
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On Nov 29, 2007 6:46 AM, Trent Black
<rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Well, gosh, java is not that slow. Those day''s are from the
> slow cpu''s of years ago.
I have a fairly new machine:
> cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep CPU
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E6850  @ 3.00GHz
model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E6850  @ 3.00GHz

running Ubuntu 7.10.  Java on here is slow.  I tried using JEdit for a
while, tossed it out for slowness.  I use Oracle''s sqldeveloper which
is Java, slower than any other app I run, takes 20+ seconds to even
startup.
> Scripting languages are all the craze, for good reason.
I agree.  If I have a compile cycle I want native code.
> Then, there is Django (the python dudes), that seems to be from
> a guys doing work for online news.  (lawrence)  but i am not 100% sure.
> could be a nice, fast, alternative, if you need it.
I worked with Django for about 6 or 7 months earlier this year.  It''s
missing so many things I''ve come to know and love about Rails.  Not to
mention the Django developers stopped working on the docs to go write
their book.  You seriously have to read source code to figure stuff
out.  Throws that rapid development hype right out the window.  Python
is awesome, Django not so much.
> The days of the C guys blasting Java guys for speed, is pretty much
> over.
C will always be faster than Java, it has no byte code interpretation layer.
> And there are not a lot of C projects anymore.
8375 projects found
http://freshmeat.net/browse/164/

There''s like a gazillion people in #c on irc.freenode.net right now.


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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On 29 Nov 2007, at 16:09, Greg Donald wrote:
>
> On Nov 29, 2007 6:46 AM, Trent Black <rails-mailing-list@andreas- 
> s.net> wrote:
>> Well, gosh, java is not that slow. Those day''s are from the
>> slow cpu''s of years ago.
>
> I have a fairly new machine:
>
>> cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep CPU
> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E6850  @ 3.00GHz
> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E6850  @ 3.00GHz
>
> running Ubuntu 7.10.  Java on here is slow.  I tried using JEdit for a
> while, tossed it out for slowness.  I use Oracle''s sqldeveloper
which
> is Java, slower than any other app I run, takes 20+ seconds to even
> startup.
>
That''s a somewhat unhelpful way of determining whether java is slow  
(whatever that might mean).
<Insert name here> takes forever to load on my machine, and is written  
in C++. C++ must be slow.

Fred

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On Nov 29, 2007 10:18 AM, Frederick Cheung
<frederick.cheung-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> That''s a somewhat unhelpful way of determining whether java is
slow
> (whatever that might mean).
> <Insert name here> takes forever to load on my machine, and is
written
> in C++. C++ must be slow.
I''m not trying to help you determine if Java is slow or not,
I''ve
already made that determination myself, through years of using Java
apps.


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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Greg Donald wrote:
> On Nov 29, 2007 6:46 AM, Trent Black
<rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>> Well, gosh, java is not that slow. Those day''s are from the
>> slow cpu''s of years ago.
> 
> I have a fairly new machine:
> 
>> cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep CPU
> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E6850  @ 3.00GHz
> model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E6850  @ 3.00GHz
> 
> running Ubuntu 7.10.  Java on here is slow.  I tried using JEdit for a
> while, tossed it out for slowness.  I use Oracle''s sqldeveloper
which
> is Java, slower than any other app I run, takes 20+ seconds to even
> startup.
> 
>> Scripting languages are all the craze, for good reason.
> 
> I agree.  If I have a compile cycle I want native code.
> 
>> Then, there is Django (the python dudes), that seems to be from
>> a guys doing work for online news.  (lawrence)  but i am not 100% sure.
>> could be a nice, fast, alternative, if you need it.
> 
> I worked with Django for about 6 or 7 months earlier this year. 
It''s
> missing so many things I''ve come to know and love about Rails. 
Not to
> mention the Django developers stopped working on the docs to go write
> their book.  You seriously have to read source code to figure stuff
> out.  Throws that rapid development hype right out the window.  Python
> is awesome, Django not so much.
> 
>> The days of the C guys blasting Java guys for speed, is pretty much
>> over.
> 
> C will always be faster than Java, it has no byte code interpretation 
> layer.
> 
>> And there are not a lot of C projects anymore.
> 
> 8375 projects found
> http://freshmeat.net/browse/164/
> 
> There''s like a gazillion people in #c on irc.freenode.net right
now.
> 
> 
> --
> Greg Donald
> http://destiney.com/
nice review.  great insite.  nice prespective :)
thanks for the advice on Django.  would you say, "RUN AWAY?"

and, i was thinking of trying Django.  not any more.

i personally have not seen a c guy in years.  but, i just do
business systems.  in my world, the java guys are going ruby,
and the c and powerbuilder guys went c#/asp.  my issues are with
dba''s doing physical and logical models, and making the database as
normalized as crazy as possible.  lol.  oh, and some trying to spend 
most of the development time doing uml modeling and charts, that nobody 
reads.  lol.





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On Nov 29, 2007 10:56 AM, Trent Black
<rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> thanks for the advice on Django.  would you say, "RUN AWAY?"
Or wait until it''s "done", if it ever gets there.
> i personally have not seen a c guy in years.
I saw three this morning, but they work here.


-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

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I would be careful grouping all c based languages under one umbrella.
For example Objective-C is a beautiful language and many of the best
programs ever written are using it and run beautifully on my Mac.


On Nov 29, 12:10 pm, "Greg Donald"
<gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> On Nov 29, 2007 10:56 AM, Trent Black
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > thanks for the advice on Django.  would you say, "RUN AWAY?"
>
> Or wait until it''s "done", if it ever gets there.
>
> > i personally have not seen a c guy in years.
>
> I saw three this morning, but they work here.
>
> --
> Greg Donaldhttp://destiney.com/
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Robert Walker wrote:
> I would be careful grouping all c based languages under one umbrella.
> For example Objective-C is a beautiful language and many of the best
> programs ever written are using it and run beautifully on my Mac.
DOH.

I thought is a wrapper on C with some smalltalk message thingy''s.
And that Job''s made it popular, on Nextstep and then on the Tiger OS.
And there are some very sexy things written in it.

Not that it is junk, but in a different world.

I am putting Ruby on Rails as more a business
web scripting lingo, and not for the OS or Client Server
type applications.

Most times I see C type stuff is for speed requirements.

Does WOW use C?

:)

Can I have your Mac?  Please?



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On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:56:10 +0100, Trent Black wrote:
> oh, and some trying to spend
> most of the development time doing uml modeling and charts, that nobody
> reads.

Why aren''t they read, seriously?  What''s wrong with a model?



-Thufir


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Thufir wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:56:10 +0100, Trent Black wrote:
> 
>> oh, and some trying to spend
>> most of the development time doing uml modeling and charts, that nobody
>> reads.
> 
> 
> Why aren''t they read, seriously?  What''s wrong with a
model?
> 
> 
> 
> -Thufir
while it sounds very logical to read the uml documents,
in all practice, it is rarely done, in the shops i have been in.

they would rather sit at a meeting with the users, and
be told what is wanted, instead of reading documents, which is boring.

and the ones that go to the meetings, don''t do a lot of documentation.
you are almost better getting them to do Behavior Driven Development.

now, i know, everybody says "you have bad developers".
i been to many other shops, and see the same thing.
over and over.  and over and over.  and over and over.

i just came off a project that had a 241 page spec.
it had 3 analyst''s.  i can''t say anybody read it.
the developers made a screen, and the analyst''s would
then correct them.  then the screen  was fixed.  lol.
and so it went.

i have been on over 20 projects, and i have yet to see it read,
by the developers.  sometimes, the project managers will read it.
maybe.
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