Rails - Sep 2007 - is it true that if you develop with Ruby, you have to ship source code to your customers?

looking at using Ruby on Rails for dev project. one guy says don''t use
it because we will have to ship our source code to our customers.
Anyone care to comment on this?

same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....true or false?

hoping to get the straight scoop


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Umm, no you do not have to ship source code to you users. It''s is true
that Ruby can be slower in a side-by-side comparison, however, it''s up
to you to decide what''s more important to you, CPU cycles or developer
cycles. It seems to me that CPU issues are much easier to solve than
development issues.

On Sep 18, 3:11 pm, shaz <shaz...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> looking at using Ruby on Rails for dev project. one guy says don''t
use
> it because we will have to ship our source code to our customers.
> Anyone care to comment on this?
>
> same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....true or false?
>
> hoping to get the straight scoop

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Could you elaborate on this?  If you are developing an application that is
to be client-hosted, what do you ship if it''s not the source?

On 9/18/07, Robert Walker
<rwalker348-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> Umm, no you do not have to ship source code to you users. It''s is
true
> that Ruby can be slower in a side-by-side comparison, however,
it''s up
> to you to decide what''s more important to you, CPU cycles or
developer
> cycles. It seems to me that CPU issues are much easier to solve than
> development issues.
>
> On Sep 18, 3:11 pm, shaz
<shaz...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > looking at using Ruby on Rails for dev project. one guy says
don''t use
> > it because we will have to ship our source code to our customers.
> > Anyone care to comment on this?
> >
> > same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....true or false?
> >
> > hoping to get the straight scoop
>
>
> >
>
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At 12:11 -0700 9/18/07, shaz wrote:
> one guy says don''t use it because we will have to ship our
> source code to our customers.  Anyone care to comment on this?
Because Ruby is an interpreted language, shipping source code
(possibly obfuscated) is the part of the picture.  That said,
why not do some serious thinking about whether this matters to
you, the benefits to the customer of having maintainable code,
etc.  You don''t have to go Open Source, by the way; licensed
source code has been around for decades...
> same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....
> true or false?
Current Ruby interpreters are slower than current Python ones,
but this should change over the next few years.  Also, if your
app is scalable, the cost of adding more processors may not be
all that much of a burden.

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm-go8te9J4rpw@public.gmane.org
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

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Ryan Angilly wrote:
> Could you elaborate on this?  If you are developing an application that 
> is
> to be client-hosted, what do you ship if it''s not the source?
read this thread;
http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/124249

it doesnt quite give an answer,
but points you in the right direction.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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Thanks, that''s what I thought.

On 9/18/07, Matthew Rudy
<rails-mailing-list-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
>
> Ryan Angilly wrote:
> > Could you elaborate on this?  If you are developing an application
that
> > is
> > to be client-hosted, what do you ship if it''s not the source?
>
> read this thread;
> http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/124249
>
> it doesnt quite give an answer,
> but points you in the right direction.
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
>
> >
>
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On Sep 18, 3:11 pm, shaz <shaz...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> looking at using Ruby on Rails for dev project. one guy says don''t
use
> it because we will have to ship our source code to our customers.
> Anyone care to comment on this?
>
> same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....true or false?
>
> hoping to get the straight scoop
There''s a ruby gem "rubyscript2exe" which convert all ruby
code into
an EXE file, so your code can be relatively safe.
actually that guy is slow because he can''t comprehend the speed of
ruby.

asker may also be interested in http://groups.wuyasea.com/group/ruby-on-rails

Dorren

Dorren_was_here_cuz_goog_keeps_losing_my_favorites


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shaz wrote:
> looking at using Ruby on Rails for dev project. one guy says don''t
use
> it because we will have to ship our source code to our customers.
>   
If the work you''re doing would normally require you to ship binaries to
customers, then yes, using Rails will require you to ship the source to 
customers -- Ruby does not produce a compiled form for distribution.

> same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....true or false?
The current Ruby interpreter is one of the slowest runtimes out there.  
YARV (Ruby 2.0) and other projects should fix that (dev benchmarks 
abound on Google).  If you''re writing performance intensive code in
Ruby
there are things you can do to speed specific sections up, but if the 
whole thing is slow then you''re probably b

-faisal


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Faisal N. Jawdat wrote:
> if the whole thing is slow then you''re probably b
...etter off not hitting the send button.

you''re probably better off with a different language.  Where are your 
actual performance bottlenecks?

-faisal


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Faisal N. Jawdat wrote:
> shaz wrote:
>> looking at using Ruby on Rails for dev project. one guy says
don''t use
>> it because we will have to ship our source code to our customers.
>>   
> If the work you''re doing would normally require you to ship
binaries to
> customers, then yes, using Rails will require you to ship the source to
> customers -- Ruby does not produce a compiled form for distribution.
> 
> 
>> same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....true or false?
> The current Ruby interpreter is one of the slowest runtimes out there.
> YARV (Ruby 2.0) and other projects should fix that (dev benchmarks
> abound on Google).  If you''re writing performance intensive code
in Ruby
> there are things you can do to speed specific sections up, but if the
> whole thing is slow then you''re probably b
> 
> -faisal
Charles Nutter wrote recently about some tweaks to JRuby for 
performance.  It was possible to achieve 1200 transactions with a Rails 
app after applying the tweaks.  IMO, that doesn''t sound much like a 
performance issue.

There are other considerations also.  Ask yourself when the last time 
you really enjoyed writing code?  For me personally, it was about twelve 
years ago writing Clipper code.  When I found Ruby, it had many of the 
same characteristics as Clipper (including blocks) and I started having 
a blast writing code again.

Some of you may recall the XBase programming days.  dBase III wasn''t 
that fast either and was an interpreted language right?  Then a couple 
of guys came along who decided to write a compiler for XBase basically 
turning it into a compiled language (even though the executable as as 
big as a house unless you moved the interpreter into its own file.  The 
result was a fun, fast executing language though.  Is there a hint in 
there somewhere?  Maybe.

Productivity is an issue for many development teams.  Ruby/Rails has the 
edge when it comes to productivity, but adding in the "fun" factor
adds
a bit of a jolt to productivity all on its own.

What others are saying about performance is ultimately true.  Is it as 
fast as a compiled language?  No.  Will it approach those speeds in the 
future?  You can already see progress in that direction.  I don''t
really
care if it isn''t as fast as a compiled language any.  :-)
-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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Cody Skidmore wrote:
> performance.  It was possible to achieve 1200 transactions with a Rails 
Make that 1200 transactions a second.

If you''re curious, google it.
-- 
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shaz wrote:
> looking at using Ruby on Rails for dev project. one guy says don''t
use
> it because we will have to ship our source code to our customers.
> Anyone care to comment on this?
Ruby on Rails is mainly for server-side development.  Thus, the source
code is on the web server, in a protected directory that no customer
can get to, unless you are sloppy with your administration of your web
site or your site gets hacked somehow.  Rails itself creates pretty
safe websites and encourages good practices, but you can always leave
some back door open by mistake, of course.
If you use RoR for a client-side application.  That is, one
application that HAS to run on your customer''s computer and not
through the web, then yes.  You''ll have to give them the source
code.   There''s ways to obfuscate the code or have the source code
compressed inside an .exe file as others have mentioned, but that
source code will still be easier to access than with a compiled
language like C++.  Overall if you are looking for that kind of
protection, currently only static languages tend to offer that (and
that''s also changing as there are more and better C/C++ decompilers
each day).
>
> same guy says Ruby is pretty slow compared to Python....true or false?
>
Somewhat true.  Python in general is faster for most arithmetic tasks,
albeit there''s relatively not that major difference for other types of
operations.  Ruby in general is faster for most tasks that involve
large OO hierarchies.  If you also consider the upcoming ruby1.9
(yarv), the speed differences between both are not worth mentioning.
For most applications that are server based, the speed of the
application is more often determined by the speed of the network
connection and the database used than by the language you use to code
it in.

Note also that python also suffers from you having to ship source
code.  Python can do a very minor built-in obfuscation by shipping
byte-codes instead of actual ASCII source code, but the byte-codes are
extremely easy to reverse engineer (there are public domain utilities
for that) and will give you an almost identical file to your source
code (sans comments).

So if you are considering python as an alternative to RoR, the truth
is that you won''t gain much on improving either of your concerns.


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