Rails - May 2006 - .NET developer trying to understand some Rails basics

Hi All,
I''ve been a ASP.NET developer for the last few years and consider it to
be a pretty productive environment to work with. However, the 
object-relational mapping (ActiveRecord) and simplicity of the Rails 
framework and Ruby in general really appeals to me. .NET currently 
doesn''t have something like Rails'' ORM - atleast not
out-of-the-box.

Here''s my question:
In asp.net I am able to use declaritive syntax like the following to 
implement very complex UI elements.

<asp:GridView ID="GridView1" AllowSorting="true"
AllowPaging="true"
Runat="server"
        DataSourceID="SqlDataSource1"
AutoGenerateEditButton="true"
DataKeyNames="au_id"
        AutoGenerateColumns="False">
        <Columns>
          <asp:BoundField ReadOnly="true" HeaderText="ID"
DataField="au_id" SortExpression="au_id" />
          <asp:BoundField HeaderText="Last Name"
DataField="au_lname"
SortExpression="au_lname" />
          <asp:BoundField HeaderText="First Name"
DataField="au_fname"
SortExpression="au_fname" />
          <asp:BoundField HeaderText="Address"
DataField="address"
SortExpression="address" />
          <asp:BoundField HeaderText="City"
DataField="city"
SortExpression="city" />
          <asp:BoundField HeaderText="Zip Code"
DataField="zip"
SortExpression="zip" />
          <asp:CheckBoxField HeaderText="Contract" 
SortExpression="contract" DataField="contract" />
        </Columns>
      </asp:GridView>

This simple bit of code creates a nice table/grid with already built-in 
paging, sorting, as well as buttons which will automatically make a row 
editable. In order to tie this to actual data, all I have to do is 
create a DataSource object with the name of the 
DataSourceID="SqlDataSource1".

Of course, this is just one of the many "Server Controls" as they are 
called. I''m wondering if rails has functionality like this or how hard 
it is to create my own reusable ''controls'' like this. I would
especially
be interested in hearing from any others that have done asp.net 
development in the past.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

You''re going to have to do a little bit of work on your end depending
on the functionality you''re looking for.  In Rails there are several
items that can be used to do what you are looking for.  There''s
probably more, but here''s what I have off the top of my head:

1. Helpers - Built into rails are a series of helpers, like
date_select.  Others have implemented addon helpers, like a calendar
popup helper. Check out this page:
http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/3rdPartyHelpers/versions/60

2. Plugins - Read about plugins on the Wiki site.
http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/Plugins.  Plugins are less
focussed on UI and more on functionality, like act_as_authenticated.
This is a generalization but you get the idea.

3. Widgets - This is an interesting idea an one that would work for
some of these types of items you want (http://blogrium.com/?p=60).

4. Components - I note these here only for completeness, but current
thinking says use them as a last resort.  Components are like Widgets,
only with a full controller.  In the past, like a month ago, there
were real performance issues with components.

5. Ajax Toolkits - If you''re looking to do ajax type stuff
there''s
lots of toolkits out there that will provide a very .net type of
functionality.  It may not be as cut and paste, but for the most part
is pretty straightfoward.  I would get familiarized with scriptaculous
/ prototype first, because it''s very well integrated with Rails (look
into RJS).  There''s others out there too, like the Yahoo UI, Dojo,
Rico, Zimbra, etc..  There''s something like 150 of them now and each
have their strengths.

Michael

Hi Nate,

I was an ASP.NET developer a couple of years ago until I gave Rails a
try and realized it was an order of magnitude better.  You can have
the same functionality in Rails that you described with the server
control but in Rails you won''t be using ''controls''
per se.  When it
comes to the forms you don''t use controls in the ASP.NET sense with
Rails, you use even simpler Rails tags.  Without going into the
details, I can tell you that from DB to Browser I can write much
simpler code to create a table/grid of data, with paging, and sorting
as well and editable rows...

It''s just in Rails I''d go about it differently than ASP.NET...

On 5/24/06, Michael Trier <mtrier@gmail.com>
wrote:
> You''re going to have to do a little bit of work on your end
depending
> on the functionality you''re looking for.  In Rails there are
several
> items that can be used to do what you are looking for.  There''s
> probably more, but here''s what I have off the top of my head:
>
> 1. Helpers - Built into rails are a series of helpers, like
> date_select.  Others have implemented addon helpers, like a calendar
> popup helper. Check out this page:
> http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/3rdPartyHelpers/versions/60
>
> 2. Plugins - Read about plugins on the Wiki site.
> http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/Plugins.  Plugins are less
> focussed on UI and more on functionality, like act_as_authenticated.
> This is a generalization but you get the idea.
>
> 3. Widgets - This is an interesting idea an one that would work for
> some of these types of items you want (http://blogrium.com/?p=60).
>
> 4. Components - I note these here only for completeness, but current
> thinking says use them as a last resort.  Components are like Widgets,
> only with a full controller.  In the past, like a month ago, there
> were real performance issues with components.
>
> 5. Ajax Toolkits - If you''re looking to do ajax type stuff
there''s
> lots of toolkits out there that will provide a very .net type of
> functionality.  It may not be as cut and paste, but for the most part
> is pretty straightfoward.  I would get familiarized with scriptaculous
> / prototype first, because it''s very well integrated with Rails
(look
> into RJS).  There''s others out there too, like the Yahoo UI, Dojo,
> Rico, Zimbra, etc..  There''s something like 150 of them now and
each
> have their strengths.
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

Would you mind outlining the approach you took to create such a table/grid?

-Jonathan.

On 5/25/06, Tim Case <tcrails1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Nate,
>
> I was an ASP.NET developer a couple of years ago until I gave Rails a
> try and realized it was an order of magnitude better.  You can have
> the same functionality in Rails that you described with the server
> control but in Rails you won''t be using
''controls'' per se.  When it
> comes to the forms you don''t use controls in the ASP.NET sense
with
> Rails, you use even simpler Rails tags.  Without going into the
> details, I can tell you that from DB to Browser I can write much
> simpler code to create a table/grid of data, with paging, and sorting
> as well and editable rows...
>

This isn''t a grid, if I wanted a grid I would lay things out in
Tables, but a problem with using ASP.NET controls such as an ASP.NET
datagrid is that it implies a grid is a good way to display data to a
user which it may or may not be but with Rails you can take either
approach.  The code that follows will show a list items, allow you to
page and sort and also add new items.  (Also this is not the simplest
possible answer but the one that I can provide quickly)


**SORT:

<span class="sorttype">
	Sort by: <%= link_to_unless @sort == "alphabetically",
"Alpha",
:action => "show_view_all_items", :id => @collection.id, :sort
=>
"alphabetically" %> |
			 <%= link_to_unless @sort == "date", "Date", :action
=>
"show_view_all_items", :id => @collection.id, :sort =>
"date" %> |
			 <%= link_to_unless @sort == "wows", "Wows!", :action
=>
"show_view_all_items", :id => @collection.id, :sort =>
"wows" %>
</span>


**SHOW LIST OF ITEMS:

<%= render :partial => "item", :collection => @items %>


**AJAX SHOW HIDDEN FORM AND SUBMIT WITHOUT POSTBACK, UPDATING LIST OF ITEMS

<p class="newitem_container"><a href="#additem"
onclick="Effect.toggle(''additem'',''blind'');
return false"
class="newitem">Create a new Item</a></p>
<div id="additem" class="showhidedialog dialogbg"
style="display: none;">
<%= form_remote_tag(:url => {:action => ''create''},
					:update => "items",
					:position => :top,
					:loading => ''item_loading()'',
					:success => ''item_added()'',
					:failure => ''item_edit()'') %>
  <%= render :partial => ''form'' %>
  <%= submit_tag "Add item", :id => "add_item_button"
%>
	<span id="busy" style ="display: none;"><%=
image_tag
"/images/ajax-loader.gif" %></span><a href="#"
onclick="Effect.toggle(''additem'',''blind'');
return false"> close</a>
<%= end_form_tag %>
</div>
<% end %>



**PAGING

<%= link_to ''Previous page'', { :page =>
@item_pages.current.previous }
if @item_pages.current.previous %>
<%= link_to ''Next page'', { :page =>
@item_pages.current.next } if
@item_pages.current.next %>


On 5/24/06, Jonathan Viney <jonathan.viney@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Would you mind outlining the approach you took to create such a table/grid?
>
> -Jonathan.
>
> On 5/25/06, Tim Case <tcrails1@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Nate,
> >
> > I was an ASP.NET developer a couple of years ago until I gave Rails a
> > try and realized it was an order of magnitude better.  You can have
> > the same functionality in Rails that you described with the server
> > control but in Rails you won''t be using
''controls'' per se.  When it
> > comes to the forms you don''t use controls in the ASP.NET
sense with
> > Rails, you use even simpler Rails tags.  Without going into the
> > details, I can tell you that from DB to Browser I can write much
> > simpler code to create a table/grid of data, with paging, and sorting
> > as well and editable rows...
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

Michael Trier wrote:
> You''re going to have to do a little bit of work on your end
depending
> on the functionality you''re looking for.  In Rails there are
several
> items that can be used to do what you are looking for.  There''s
> probably more, but here''s what I have off the top of my head:
> 
> 1. Helpers - Built into rails are a series of helpers, like
> date_select.  Others have implemented addon helpers, like a calendar
> popup helper. Check out this page:
> http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/3rdPartyHelpers/versions/60
> 
> .....
> 
> Michael
Thanks Michael for your list. Very helpful. Speaking of help:
>From the docs on the Wiki regarding helpers, it looks like a helper is
only available in the ''associated view''. Is there any way to
create a
helper (or something very similar to a helper) that can be available
more widely?

Thanks.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

the application_helper.rb is available to all views. You can also tell
your controller that you want to use a specific helper with the helper
:helper_name method.  Then when you reference it in the view it finds
it.

Michael

On 5/25/06, Nate <nathwdavis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Michael Trier wrote:
> > You''re going to have to do a little bit of work on your end
depending
> > on the functionality you''re looking for.  In Rails there are
several
> > items that can be used to do what you are looking for. 
There''s
> > probably more, but here''s what I have off the top of my head:
> >
> > 1. Helpers - Built into rails are a series of helpers, like
> > date_select.  Others have implemented addon helpers, like a calendar
> > popup helper. Check out this page:
> > http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/3rdPartyHelpers/versions/60
> >
> > .....
> >
> > Michael
>
> Thanks Michael for your list. Very helpful. Speaking of help:
>
> >From the docs on the Wiki regarding helpers, it looks like a helper is
> only available in the ''associated view''. Is there any way
to create a
> helper (or something very similar to a helper) that can be available
> more widely?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

> 
> **SHOW LIST OF ITEMS:
> 
> <%= render :partial => "item", :collection => @items
%>
> 
> 
Hi Tim,
I''m wondering what your partial shown above might look like. Also, how 
is the syntax you use there different from using 
render_partial_collection?

Thanks.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

render_partial_collection is deprecated and may not be supported in the 
future.

Nate wrote:
> 
>> 
>> **SHOW LIST OF ITEMS:
>> 
>> <%= render :partial => "item", :collection => @items
%>
>> 
>> 
> 
> Hi Tim,
> I''m wondering what your partial shown above might look like. Also,
how
> is the syntax you use there different from using 
> render_partial_collection?
> 
> Thanks.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Hi,

Glad to hear you are having a good result with RoR. 

I''m from ASP.Net [VB.Net, C#, Visual Studio and SQL Server]. 

I''m  planning on putting 3 apps on RoR [I''m meeting my first
Customer in
NYC to plan out the app and the algorithm - he is a math whiz and we''re
planning on putting up a QA System].

My colleagues think I''m nuts but I see something in RoR that I never
saw
in ASP.Net or Java. My ASP.Net library is about a yard wide and so is my
Java library. With Ror, I''m using four books.

I think I''ve made the right move -- wish me luck.

Cheers,
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: rails-bounces@lists.rubyonrails.org
[mailto:rails-bounces@lists.rubyonrails.org] On Behalf Of Tim Case
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:45 PM
To: rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
Subject: [Rails] Re: .NET developer trying to understand some Rails
basics

Hi Nate,

I was an ASP.NET developer a couple of years ago until I gave Rails a
try and realized it was an order of magnitude better.  You can have
the same functionality in Rails that you described with the server
control but in Rails you won''t be using ''controls''
per se.  When it
comes to the forms you don''t use controls in the ASP.NET sense with
Rails, you use even simpler Rails tags.  Without going into the
details, I can tell you that from DB to Browser I can write much
simpler code to create a table/grid of data, with paging, and sorting
as well and editable rows...

It''s just in Rails I''d go about it differently than ASP.NET...

On 5/24/06, Michael Trier <mtrier@gmail.com>
wrote:
> You''re going to have to do a little bit of work on your end
depending
> on the functionality you''re looking for.  In Rails there are
several
> items that can be used to do what you are looking for.  There''s
> probably more, but here''s what I have off the top of my head:
>
> 1. Helpers - Built into rails are a series of helpers, like
> date_select.  Others have implemented addon helpers, like a calendar
> popup helper. Check out this page:
> http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/3rdPartyHelpers/versions/60
>
> 2. Plugins - Read about plugins on the Wiki site.
> http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/Plugins.  Plugins are less
> focussed on UI and more on functionality, like act_as_authenticated.
> This is a generalization but you get the idea.
>
> 3. Widgets - This is an interesting idea an one that would work for
> some of these types of items you want (http://blogrium.com/?p=60).
>
> 4. Components - I note these here only for completeness, but current
> thinking says use them as a last resort.  Components are like Widgets,
> only with a full controller.  In the past, like a month ago, there
> were real performance issues with components.
>
> 5. Ajax Toolkits - If you''re looking to do ajax type stuff
there''s
> lots of toolkits out there that will provide a very .net type of
> functionality.  It may not be as cut and paste, but for the most part
> is pretty straightfoward.  I would get familiarized with scriptaculous
> / prototype first, because it''s very well integrated with Rails
(look
> into RJS).  There''s others out there too, like the Yahoo UI, Dojo,
> Rico, Zimbra, etc..  There''s something like 150 of them now and
each
> have their strengths.
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
_______________________________________________
Rails mailing list
Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Nate Davis wrote:
> <asp:GridView ID="GridView1" AllowSorting="true"
AllowPaging="true"
> Runat="server"
>         DataSourceID="SqlDataSource1"
AutoGenerateEditButton="true"
> DataKeyNames="au_id"
Hi Nate,

Welcome to the Rails community!  Going from .Net to Rails has involved 
many moments of mind-shifting for me; usually those moments are along 
the lines of, "you mean that''s all I have to do?  That''s
it? Really?..."
:-)

For a grid, you might start with a plugin we developed to do something 
similar to an ASP.NET gridview:

http://www.softiesonrails.com/articles/2006/05/02/the-datalist_for-plugin

Now, it''s not going to have all the bells and whistles of the server 
control, but that''s because given all the easy things you can do in 
Rails (like paging), we kept our plug in really simple.  Check it out 
and let me know if you need any help with it.

Jeff
softiesonrails.com

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On 5/26/06, Jeff Cohen <cohen.jeff@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Nate Davis wrote:
> > <asp:GridView ID="GridView1"
AllowSorting="true" AllowPaging="true"
> > Runat="server"
> >         DataSourceID="SqlDataSource1"
AutoGenerateEditButton="true"
> > DataKeyNames="au_id"
>
A different approach to get something like this up and running and
rails is a code generator.  In this case, something like
http://www.ajaxscaffold.com/ might be a good fit.

Jeff Cohen wrote:
> Nate Davis wrote:
>> <asp:GridView ID="GridView1" AllowSorting="true"
AllowPaging="true"
>> Runat="server"
>>         DataSourceID="SqlDataSource1"
AutoGenerateEditButton="true"
>> DataKeyNames="au_id"
> 
> Hi Nate,
> 
> Welcome to the Rails community!  Going from .Net to Rails has involved 
> many moments of mind-shifting for me; usually those moments are along 
> the lines of, "you mean that''s all I have to do? 
That''s it? Really?..."
> :-)
> 
> ........
> 
> Jeff
> softiesonrails.com
Thanks for the input. As much as I like what Ruby and Rails has to 
offer, I really couldn''t just say - "Well, I''m moving
over to Rails".
Ruby/Rails has many advantages over .NET and .NET has many advantages 
over Ruby/Rails. It''s best for my career (and any developer''s
career) to
gain expertise in atleast two very different development environments. 
By keeping up with both .NET and Ruby/Rails, I can be ready to tackle 
any project. I can see that some projects will be best accomplished with 
.NET and others with Rails.

Also, I think learning Rails is actually making me a better .NET 
programmer, because I''m thinking in new ways - trying to use .NET in
the
Rails way (if that makes sense).

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Nate Davis wrote:
> Thanks for the input. As much as I like what Ruby and Rails has to 
> offer, I really couldn''t just say - "Well, I''m
moving over to Rails".
Right - didn''t mean to imply that if I did.  I''m a C#
developer by day,
and I use Rails at night for my other (unpaid) job. :-)
> Also, I think learning Rails is actually making me a better .NET 
> programmer, because I''m thinking in new ways - trying to use .NET
in the
> Rails way (if that makes sense).
That''s a great point.  I hadn''t actually learned a new
language in a
while, and Ruby has been a fun challenge for me.  My only exposure to 
other scripting languages were not strongly typed and not object 
oriented, so to me Ruby is just amazing.

The more I''m able to think "in Ruby", often the more I see
how to write
better C# code as well.  One thing I''ve learned from the Ruby community
here is really how useful - and almost necessary - it is to be familiar 
with more than just one programming language.  I had been doing C++/C# 
for so long I wasn''t getting the benefits of the mental training that 
multilingual developers get every day.

Jeff

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.