Hi, this is slightly related to the "lazy_update" on associations thread - I''m encountering a few problems and hope to get a few hints here as I seem to be to narrow minded to find a good solution for this. It''s not the first time I am facing this pattern but I''ll try to explain it using an example: I have two models: Entry and Section. An entry habtm sections. Now I want the user to be able to create a new entry or edit an existing one and add sections to it or modify existing sections. But I want all changes to the entry and its sections to be saved back to the database only after the user explicitly tells me to by pressing "save". So newly added sections (rendered using partials) should not be added to the database immediately because they are ''invalid''. The user presses "add section" and the ajax helpers do what they do best and add another (e.g.) textaera to my form. I have two problems: - A new Section is added to the entry and initialized to empty but in this state nothing should be written to the database. Empty sections are to be discarded when finally saving to the database - I can do this with AR Validations. - Because the section is unsaved it not yet has an "id" but in my template I iterate over all sections and add an textarea with a name like "section[id]" (because the form helpers don''t support this kind of things with associations and in partials - or at least I don''t know how to do it). This obviously works for existing sections but for the new ones it won''t ("section[]") so I don''t know how to deal with this kind of problem. What I did: - I modified the Entry model to "proxy" these add (and delete) requests and only save them when they are supposed to. This kind of solves my first problem (but it is ugly). - I used a Counter class to assign "fake ids" to the new sections but this leads to more problems and more ugliness in code and templates. Well that is my little problem :) I hope I managed to describe it in a halfway understandable way and I further hope that I''m just to stupid to find the obvious pattern/solution for this in Rails. Thank you for your patience, Lars PS: I know that my english grammar leaves a lot to desire, sorry.