I am wondering if anyone that has experience with contract work has any examples of the contracts they use. My current situation is summarized as follows... maybe other have faced or are facing the same situation: The company I work for hired 4 people including me for the Web Development department at the beginning of summer. I am currently the only one left. The company essentially hasn''t profited any money for the last 5 years, just about breaking even. Entire departments have been cut over the past 3 months as well. I guess they have a history of hire for the summer and fire for the winter. The same day that they laid off the most recent programmer, they also called me and expressed that they would like to switch me over to project to project based contract work for the "best interest" of us both. I see it as nothing more than them trying to keep me around and utilize me on their terms without paying me for all of my time. Since I am considering doing contract work for them purely to bring in some income, I want to make sure whatever I sign into doesn''t screw me over. I wouldn''t put it past them to pull some shady tactics. With all that said, I would appreciate it very much if anyone could post an example of a contract that would protect the developer. If someone has a good one, I will probably refuse to sign theirs and make them abide to mine. I know there are many tricky things that need to be expressed in the contract, such as when is a project considered finished? who makes that decision? what about change requests to the original project agreement? is the project the companies property before or after I receive payment? etc etc. Anything that handles these issues would be excellent. Thank you all, Joe Noon _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
You might try Nolo Press'' books ... they''re inexpensive and written by lawyers. Also, there are several places you can buy contracts online -- I don''t have much experience with them, though. Also, if there''s a SCORE chapter nearby (the one in San Francisco is in the Small Business Administration''s building; I don''t know about other cities in the U.S., and I really have no idea about outside the U.S.), you can get some degree of help from them. Nolo''s Web site: http://www.nolo.com/ This all comes from a U.S. perspective, of course -- if you''re outside the U.S. (I don''t think you said where you''re based) there may be better resources. Jen
I have a very good contract if you''re interested I would be willing to send it to you. I''ve used it in numerous engagements. It''s lengthy, but written by my attorney and tends to address all of these things. Michael _____ From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org [mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Joe Noon Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:42 PM To: Ruby on Rails Subject: [Rails] [OT] Contract examples I am wondering if anyone that has experience with contract work has any examples of the contracts they use. My current situation is summarized as follows... maybe other have faced or are facing the same situation: The company I work for hired 4 people including me for the Web Development department at the beginning of summer. I am currently the only one left. The company essentially hasn''t profited any money for the last 5 years, just about breaking even. Entire departments have been cut over the past 3 months as well. I guess they have a history of hire for the summer and fire for the winter. The same day that they laid off the most recent programmer, they also called me and expressed that they would like to switch me over to project to project based contract work for the "best interest" of us both. I see it as nothing more than them trying to keep me around and utilize me on their terms without paying me for all of my time. Since I am considering doing contract work for them purely to bring in some income, I want to make sure whatever I sign into doesn''t screw me over. I wouldn''t put it past them to pull some shady tactics. With all that said, I would appreciate it very much if anyone could post an example of a contract that would protect the developer. If someone has a good one, I will probably refuse to sign theirs and make them abide to mine. I know there are many tricky things that need to be expressed in the contract, such as when is a project considered finished? who makes that decision? what about change requests to the original project agreement? is the project the companies property before or after I receive payment? etc etc. Anything that handles these issues would be excellent. Thank you all, Joe Noon _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
G''day Joe, I''m in Australia, so it''s unlikely the legalese in my contracts would be of use to you. My thoughts would be to evaluate the overall situation at this employer, and to ask yourself whether you want to work there. There is definitely work around (relative to 2 years ago), so to some extent you have more control over your destiny. It sounds a lot like you''ve got doubts about the integrity of these guys, and that''s not a good thing when you''re thinking about signing a legally-binding document with them. Some things to consider: - do you enjoy the work, or the work environment? - if you''re forced to leave, will you get a decent reference? Easiest way to check may be to call on some of the other guys who''ve had to move on, but consider that the last techo in an organization that''s cash-poor may be lumbered with an expectation that you''ll "pitch in and help out" significantly more than when you were 1 of several - if things get bad financially, how confident are you that (as a contractor) you''ll get paid out? You might want to consider asking to get paid fortnightly or weekly, to minimise the amount you could be out of pocket if things go pear-shaped. I''d really worry if your money isn''t in your bank account on time. Understand that employees get first crack at any assets after a bankruptcy, and contractors/suppliers are well down the list Finally, if someone told me they wanted me to sign a contract that was "in the best interests of both of us", I''d be hearing a few alarm bells. In my experience, most customers want what''s best for them, not for me. At best, I''d probably offer to sign a short-term contract to "let both parties evaluate how the new arrangement is working'' with the expectation of a longer-term extension later if things work out OK i.e. let you walk if the situation gets ugly. Good luck Dave M. - is this work likely to lead to something good/enjoyable/lucrative/...? On 9/16/05, Joe Noon <joenoon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I am wondering if anyone that has experience with contract work has any > examples of the contracts they use. My current situation is summarized as > follows... maybe other have faced or are facing the same situation: > > The company I work for hired 4 people including me for the Web Development > department at the beginning of summer. I am currently the only one left. > The company essentially hasn''t profited any money for the last 5 years, just > about breaking even. Entire departments have been cut over the past 3 > months as well. I guess they have a history of hire for the summer and fire > for the winter. The same day that they laid off the most recent programmer, > they also called me and expressed that they would like to switch me over to > project to project based contract work for the "best interest" of us both. > I see it as nothing more than them trying to keep me around and utilize me > on their terms without paying me for all of my time. Since I am considering > doing contract work for them purely to bring in some income, I want to make > sure whatever I sign into doesn''t screw me over. I wouldn''t put it past > them to pull some shady tactics. > > With all that said, I would appreciate it very much if anyone could post an > example of a contract that would protect the developer. If someone has a > good one, I will probably refuse to sign theirs and make them abide to mine. > I know there are many tricky things that need to be expressed in the > contract, such as when is a project considered finished? who makes that > decision? what about change requests to the original project agreement? is > the project the companies property before or after I receive payment? etc > etc. Anything that handles these issues would be excellent. > > Thank you all, > > Joe Noon > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > >
Hi David, - do you enjoy the work, or the work environment? I do not. Its a PHP / Microsoft SQL mess, need I say more. Ive basically been the go to guy for all questions and implementations to get them out of the pit they''ve put themselves in. They have implemented about 1/4 of my suggestions, which to me is no good. You either do it right or not at all. After writing to this list and speaking about the situation, I''m coming to realize I really resent these guys because I get paid $20/hr (probably the lowest in the group) and am the one making and explaining all of the technology decisions. On the other hand, I was hired while I was out of college for the summer so I wasn''t picky, and mainly looking to build references. - if you''re forced to leave, will you get a decent reference? I''m not the type to express my true feels outright, so when/if I tell them I wont do any further work for these guy, I don''t plan on burning any bridges. I''m fairly confident I would have a decent reference> - if things get bad financially, how confident are you that (as a > contractor) you''ll get paid out?I''m not too worried about being paid as long as its in writing. What I am expecting though is that they will expect a lot of work for little money. So it may be a non issue. P.S. Michael - Thanks for the excellent docs! _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
Michael Trier wrote:> I have a very good contract if you''re interested I would be willing to send > it to you. I''ve used it in numerous engagements. It''s lengthy, but written > by my attorney and tends to address all of these things.I would be very interested in seeing this, too, if you don''t mind. In particular to see an example of what a US client might expect / be used to (I assume you''re from the US?). Thanks in advance. -- Jakob Skjerning - http://mentalized.net