Rails - Aug 2005 - Good cross-platform IDE / multiple document text editor for ruby / rails?

I apologize for the cross-post, but I thought it would spur a good
discussion on both lists.

I''m looking for a good editor for doing ruby / rails development. 
Here''s my requirements:

*  Cross platform.  I spend days on XP and nights on Suse, with occassional OS X
*  Multiple Document Interface.  SciTe''s single doc interface just
won''t do
*  Debugging = not needed.  Just a good editor
*  FreeRIDE = no go.  Doesn''t respect my mouse speed
*  Emacs = no go.  I''m a vi guy, but not for this situation
*  Teh snappy.  Startup time doesn''t matter, text editing does

What I''d really like is something like the windows-only TextPad
application for linux.

I''ve been leaning towards Eclipse, but haven''t tried it out
yet -- any
ruby / rails plugins for it?

tia

-- 
Brock Weaver
[OBC]Technique

Hi,

I''m quite new to RoR but I''ve tried ArachnoRuby (commercial),
FreeRide, and
Eclipse with these plugins http://sourceforge.net/projects/rubyeclipse .

I didn''t find RoR specific plugins but would like to... For the moment
I''m
quite happy with the rubyeclipse plugin.

cheers

Thibaut
-- 
[blog] http://www.dotnetguru2.org/tbarrere

2005/8/24, Brock Weaver
<brockweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> 
> I apologize for the cross-post, but I thought it would spur a good
> discussion on both lists.
> 
> I''m looking for a good editor for doing ruby / rails development.
> Here''s my requirements:
> 
> * Cross platform. I spend days on XP and nights on Suse, with occassional 
> OS X
> * Multiple Document Interface. SciTe''s single doc interface just
won''t do
> * Debugging = not needed. Just a good editor
> * FreeRIDE = no go. Doesn''t respect my mouse speed
> * Emacs = no go. I''m a vi guy, but not for this situation
> * Teh snappy. Startup time doesn''t matter, text editing does
> 
> What I''d really like is something like the windows-only TextPad
> application for linux.
> 
> I''ve been leaning towards Eclipse, but haven''t tried it
out yet -- any
> ruby / rails plugins for it?
> 
> tia
> 
> --
> Brock Weaver
> [OBC]Technique
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

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I''ve been using jedit with the ruby plugin [1]. I''m quite
happy with
it at the moment, but might also try out Eclipse some time.

[1] http://www.jedit.org/ruby/

On 8/24/05, Brock Weaver
<brockweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I''m looking for a good editor for doing ruby / rails development.
> Here''s my requirements:
> 
> *  Cross platform.  I spend days on XP and nights on Suse, with occassional
OS X
> *  Multiple Document Interface.  SciTe''s single doc interface just
won''t do
> *  Debugging = not needed.  Just a good editor
> *  FreeRIDE = no go.  Doesn''t respect my mouse speed
> *  Emacs = no go.  I''m a vi guy, but not for this situation
> *  Teh snappy.  Startup time doesn''t matter, text editing does
> 
> What I''d really like is something like the windows-only TextPad
> application for linux.
> 
> I''ve been leaning towards Eclipse, but haven''t tried it
out yet -- any
> ruby / rails plugins for it?
Since you''re a vi guy, I would recommend Vim. The learning curve is
notorious, but you''ll start saving a lot of time once you get
comfortable. I''m actually in the process of moving to Vim from TextPad
myself. Learning to use buffers has made my life a lot easier:

http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=135

I haven''t personally used Eclipse, but some people are having success
with it and Rails:

http://www.napcs.com/howto/railsonwindows.html

Sam

Jordan Elver wrote:
> I''ve been using jedit with the ruby plugin [1]. I''m quite
happy with
> it at the moment, but might also try out Eclipse some time.
jEdit gets my vote too.

Will.

I tried really, really hard to like jEdit and just couldn''t. I do like
the RDT Eclipse plugin but for some tasks a text editor fits better
than an IDE. I''ve ended up with Komodo, which is still an IDE but a
lot lighter than Eclipse.

The $30 personal edition license covers all the platforms it runs on,
which includes Windows and SuSE. They have an alpha version for OS X -
I''ve been running that and like a lot.

http://www.activestate.com/komodo

HTH,

Melissa

I''ve researched a fair few and JEdit w/ Ruby plugin seems best so far.
Incorporates ruby doc lookup which is nice. And of course syntax
highlighting.  It also works nicely with XML/HTML files which tend to
be a part of Rails apps too.

ArachnoRuby looks nice, but besides not being free, will only work
with certain Ruby versions, which may or may not work for you.

On a similar note, what I''ve been looking for but unable to find is an
IDE that allows for inspection of Ruby objects and local variables at
run time (Visual Studio style). In other words, I don''t want to have
to be inserting puts all the time into my code in order to inspect an
object and its properties. Is there a program that allows me to pause
the code at a given time and recurse through the objects in memory and
their properties, as well as local and global variables? That would
save me a ton of time in debugging.

On 8/24/05, will <will-IRe05pOvC1JeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Jordan Elver wrote:
> > I''ve been using jedit with the ruby plugin [1]. I''m
quite happy with
> > it at the moment, but might also try out Eclipse some time.
> 
> jEdit gets my vote too.
> 
> Will.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 

-- 
"Impossible is nothing."

You can do this in Arachno and Eclipse via integrated debugging. You
can breakpoint at any place and browse through all the objects in
memory. Arachno''s debugging is much faster than Eclipse''s
debugger so
if you are running an intensive application like Rails, you will want
to use Arachno, Eclipse just takes too long to be useful.

Interesting.

How do I proceed to line-by-line debug and do variable inspection on a
rails application in Eclipse? I am already an Eclipse user, I just
don''t
know how to activate that particular feature.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*Ronny Hanssen*/


Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> You can do this in Arachno and Eclipse via integrated debugging. You
> can breakpoint at any place and browse through all the objects in
> memory. Arachno''s debugging is much faster than Eclipse''s
debugger so
> if you are running an intensive application like Rails, you will want
> to use Arachno, Eclipse just takes too long to be useful.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

On 8/24/05, Brock Weaver
<brockweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> I apologize for the cross-post, but I thought it would spur a good
> discussion on both lists.
> 
> I''m looking for a good editor for doing ruby / rails development.
> Here''s my requirements:
> 
> * Cross platform. I spend days on XP and nights on Suse, with occassional 
> OS X
> * Multiple Document Interface. SciTe''s single doc interface just
won''t do
> * Debugging = not needed. Just a good editor
> * FreeRIDE = no go. Doesn''t respect my mouse speed
> * Emacs = no go. I''m a vi guy, but not for this situation
> * Teh snappy. Startup time doesn''t matter, text editing does
> 
> What I''d really like is something like the windows-only TextPad
> application for linux.
> 
> I''ve been leaning towards Eclipse, but haven''t tried it
out yet -- any
> ruby / rails plugins for it?
> 
> tia
> 
> --
> Brock Weaver
> [OBC]Technique
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 

I posted a how-to for Eclipse and Rails a while back:
link<http://www.approachingnormal.com/articles/2005/05/29/how-to-use-eclipse-as-a-ruby-on-rails-ide><http://www.approachingnormal.com/articles/2005/05/29/how-to-use-eclipse-as-a-ruby-on-rails-ide>.

Eclipse is even faster with 3.1, especially on older pc''s. You may also
want
to check out the nightly builds of RDT, I''ve heard it''s
improving. I haven''t
tried it myself, YMMV.

-- 
http://www.approachingnormal.com


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Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> You can do this in Arachno and Eclipse via integrated debugging. You
> can breakpoint at any place and browse through all the objects in
> memory. Arachno''s debugging is much faster than Eclipse''s
debugger so
> if you are running an intensive application like Rails, you will want
> to use Arachno, Eclipse just takes too long to be useful.
That means you can inspect the program __while debugging__. It would be much
better (and that''s probably what he meant) is to have
IntelliSense®-like
features __during editing__! 

So if typed "File.", there would be popup which lists all the
available
class methods, where you could choose from. This had to be implemented
through the use of Reflection. Neither Arachno nor Eclipse can do that,
AFAIK. I think there is no IDE capable of doing that yet. 

Because of the dynamic nature of Ruby, this is just a hard thing to do.



Greetz,
Martin

> Because of the dynamic nature of Ruby, this is just a hard thing to do.
Sure... btw, anyone wants to share their experiment on ruby refactoring 
tools ? 

T.

2005/8/25, Martin Honermeyer
<maze-/iAHrS655dmM7HLlUNEGLrNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org>:
> 
> Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> 
> > You can do this in Arachno and Eclipse via integrated debugging. You
> > can breakpoint at any place and browse through all the objects in
> > memory. Arachno''s debugging is much faster than
Eclipse''s debugger so
> > if you are running an intensive application like Rails, you will want
> > to use Arachno, Eclipse just takes too long to be useful.
> 
> That means you can inspect the program __while debugging__. It would be 
> much
> better (and that''s probably what he meant) is to have
IntelliSense(r)-like
> features __during editing__!
> 
> So if typed "File.", there would be popup which lists all the
available
> class methods, where you could choose from. This had to be implemented
> through the use of Reflection. Neither Arachno nor Eclipse can do that,
> AFAIK. I think there is no IDE capable of doing that yet.
> 
> Because of the dynamic nature of Ruby, this is just a hard thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Greetz,
> Martin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 


-- 
[blog] http://www.dotnetguru2.org/tbarrere


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http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

M. Bitner wrote:
> I tried really, really hard to like jEdit and just couldn''t. I do
like
> the RDT Eclipse plugin but for some tasks a text editor fits better
> than an IDE. I''ve ended up with Komodo, which is still an IDE but
a
> lot lighter than Eclipse.
> 
> The $30 personal edition license covers all the platforms it runs on,
> which includes Windows and SuSE. They have an alpha version for OS X -
> I''ve been running that and like a lot.
> 
> http://www.activestate.com/komodo
Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve been hoping 
ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported languages, but 
hadn''t seen it mentioned.

thanks

    Justin

> Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve been hoping
> ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported languages, but
> hadn''t seen it mentioned.
Apparently it will support rails (and ruby) debugging... 
http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp/2005/08/rails_debugging.html



-- 
rick
http://techno-weenie.net

Unfortunately it doesn''t run on Linux from what I can tell ...

On 8/25/05, Rick Olson
<technoweenie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> > Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve been
hoping
> > ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported languages, but
> > hadn''t seen it mentioned.
> 
> Apparently it will support rails (and ruby) debugging...
> http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp/2005/08/rails_debugging.html
> 
> 
> 
> --
> rick
> http://techno-weenie.net
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 

-- 
"Impossible is nothing."

For the life of me I can''t get breakpoints to work in Eclipse with
Ruby files. The menu entries for setting a breakpoint are greyed out
and after research and going through the help files I can''t see how to
activate them--in fact the help files don''t mention anything about
them possibly being deactivated. Has anyone else experienced this?

I tried Arachno but it won''t work with the version of Ruby 1.8
that''s
on my system (apparently it''s only compatible with certain releases).

On 8/24/05, Jeff Barczewski
<jeff.barczewski-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> You can do this in Arachno and Eclipse via integrated debugging. You
> can breakpoint at any place and browse through all the objects in
> memory. Arachno''s debugging is much faster than Eclipse''s
debugger so
> if you are running an intensive application like Rails, you will want
> to use Arachno, Eclipse just takes too long to be useful.

-- 
"Impossible is nothing."

Rick Olson wrote:
>>Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve been
hoping
>>ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported languages, but
>>hadn''t seen it mentioned.
> 
> Apparently it will support rails (and ruby) debugging... 
> http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp/2005/08/rails_debugging.html
Hmm.. interesting. I notice these comments on his previous post:

"As an insider, do you think that Komodo will support Ruby to the same 
extend that it supports Python now?

With all the buzz around Ruby and Rails recently, there is ongoing 
search for an ultimate Ruby IDE. Komodo seems to be a natural candidate.

Posted by: 1gor | August 20, 2005

That''s more of a product management question
than a development one, but my post today on Rails
debugging should give you an answer.

Posted by: Eric | August 24, 2005"

regards

   Justin

You can do this by installing ruby eclipse plugin and you can then
debug and application in the standard way. This allows you to
breakpoint and step line by line inspecting anything in memory.

On 8/24/05, Ronny Hanssen <ronnyh-7tg5dEkr+6sdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Interesting.
> 
> How do I proceed to line-by-line debug and do variable inspection on a
> rails application in Eclipse? I am already an Eclipse user, I just
don''t
> know how to activate that particular feature.
>

I''ve had the rdt plugin installed for quite some time. I knew that
part.
But how can I debug *rails apps* using it? I mean. I''m starting the
webrick server as an external process. How can ecplipse (with RDT) break
execution in the webrick server? And can it do stepping (line-by-line
debug)?

I thought it could only do debug for standard ruby apps. That is, it
starts ruby with the wanted rb-file to be executed. However in rails,
things are a little different. We don''t start ruby or rails explicitly,
as one does with ruby itself. So how would I progress to get debugging
within rails?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*Ronny Hanssen*/


Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> You can do this by installing ruby eclipse plugin and you can then
> debug and application in the standard way. This allows you to
> breakpoint and step line by line inspecting anything in memory.
> 
> On 8/24/05, Ronny Hanssen
<ronnyh-7tg5dEkr+6sdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>>Interesting.
>>
>>How do I proceed to line-by-line debug and do variable inspection on a
>>rails application in Eclipse? I am already an Eclipse user, I just
don''t
>>know how to activate that particular feature.
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Yes, that is a feature (code completion) I love about most modern
IDE''s like Eclipse when developing Java.
>From what I remember Eclipse and Arachno had some completion
capabilities but certainly not complete like for Java. jEdit also had
a minimal amount of completion capabilities for ruby too.

Part of the difficulty is due to the dynamic nature of ruby. 

However if one could marry the editor with IRB... IRB already does
have tab code completion capabilities. So if it were possible to marry
an editor to IRB or to invoke IRB behind the scenes, then you could
use it to give you the completion list.

On 8/25/05, Martin Honermeyer
<maze-/iAHrS655dmM7HLlUNEGLrNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> That means you can inspect the program __while debugging__. It would be
much
> better (and that''s probably what he meant) is to have
IntelliSense(r)-like
> features __during editing__!
> 
> So if typed "File.", there would be popup which lists all the
available
> class methods, where you could choose from. This had to be implemented
> through the use of Reflection. Neither Arachno nor Eclipse can do that,
> AFAIK. I think there is no IDE capable of doing that yet.
> 
> Because of the dynamic nature of Ruby, this is just a hard thing to do.
>

The webrick script that you run script/server is the ruby file that
you want to invoke in the debugger. For some editors I had to actually
rename it to server.rb to be able to pick it, but either way it is the
ruby script that loads everything up. So you basically have ruby
launch server or server.rb (if you rename it) in the debugger and
that''s all there is to it. Then just put a breakpoint and hit a
webpage and you''ll stop at the breakpoint, ready to examine and single
step through the code. But it will take a while for rails to load up
in the debugger in Eclipse. Much faster in Arachno.

On 8/25/05, Ronny Hanssen <ronnyh-7tg5dEkr+6sdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I''ve had the rdt plugin installed for quite some time. I knew that
part.
> But how can I debug *rails apps* using it? I mean. I''m starting
the
> webrick server as an external process. How can ecplipse (with RDT) break
> execution in the webrick server? And can it do stepping (line-by-line
> debug)?
> 
> I thought it could only do debug for standard ruby apps. That is, it
> starts ruby with the wanted rb-file to be executed. However in rails,
> things are a little different. We don''t start ruby or rails
explicitly,
> as one does with ruby itself. So how would I progress to get debugging
> within rails?
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> /*Ronny Hanssen*/
> 
> 
> Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> > You can do this by installing ruby eclipse plugin and you can then
> > debug and application in the standard way. This allows you to
> > breakpoint and step line by line inspecting anything in memory.
> >
> > On 8/24/05, Ronny Hanssen
<ronnyh-7tg5dEkr+6sdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> >>Interesting.
> >>
> >>How do I proceed to line-by-line debug and do variable inspection
on a
> >>rails application in Eclipse? I am already an Eclipse user, I just
don''t
> >>know how to activate that particular feature.
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

Debugging Ruby with Eclipse: After some more digging around I found
that the RDT debugger doesn''t work with Ruby 1.8.x. on Linux.  So
that''s why I couldn''t get Eclipse to debug my Ruby scripts. I
guess
those of you using it must be running Windows or Ruby 1.6 on Linux.

I''ll try Arachno again....

-- 
"Impossible is nothing."

zer0halo wrote:
> Unfortunately it doesn''t run on Linux from what I can tell ...
 From http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/index.plex

"Professional IDE for dynamic languages, for Linux, Solaris and
Windows."

and

"Or alpha test Komodo 3.X for Mac OS X now!"

regards

     Justin
> On 8/25/05, Rick Olson
<technoweenie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>>>Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve been
hoping
>>>ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported languages, but
>>>hadn''t seen it mentioned.
>>
>>Apparently it will support rails (and ruby) debugging...
>>http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp/2005/08/rails_debugging.html

Ah. Of course :) I''ll try that right away, thanks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*Ronny Hanssen*/


Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> The webrick script that you run script/server is the ruby file that
> you want to invoke in the debugger. For some editors I had to actually
> rename it to server.rb to be able to pick it, but either way it is the
> ruby script that loads everything up. So you basically have ruby
> launch server or server.rb (if you rename it) in the debugger and
> that''s all there is to it. Then just put a breakpoint and hit a
> webpage and you''ll stop at the breakpoint, ready to examine and
single
> step through the code. But it will take a while for rails to load up
> in the debugger in Eclipse. Much faster in Arachno.
> 
> On 8/25/05, Ronny Hanssen
<ronnyh-7tg5dEkr+6sdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>>I''ve had the rdt plugin installed for quite some time. I knew
that part.
>>But how can I debug *rails apps* using it? I mean. I''m starting
the
>>webrick server as an external process. How can ecplipse (with RDT) break
>>execution in the webrick server? And can it do stepping (line-by-line
>>debug)?
>>
>>I thought it could only do debug for standard ruby apps. That is, it
>>starts ruby with the wanted rb-file to be executed. However in rails,
>>things are a little different. We don''t start ruby or rails
explicitly,
>>as one does with ruby itself. So how would I progress to get debugging
>>within rails?
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>/*Ronny Hanssen*/
>>
>>
>>Jeff Barczewski wrote:
>>
>>>You can do this by installing ruby eclipse plugin and you can then
>>>debug and application in the standard way. This allows you to
>>>breakpoint and step line by line inspecting anything in memory.
>>>
>>>On 8/24/05, Ronny Hanssen
<ronnyh-7tg5dEkr+6sdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Interesting.
>>>>
>>>>How do I proceed to line-by-line debug and do variable
inspection on a
>>>>rails application in Eclipse? I am already an Eclipse user, I
just don''t
>>>>know how to activate that particular feature.
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Rails mailing list
>>>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>>>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rails mailing list
>>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Justin Forder wrote:
> Rick Olson wrote:
> 
>>> Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve been
hoping
>>> ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported languages,
but
>>> hadn''t seen it mentioned.
>>
>>
>> Apparently it will support rails (and ruby) debugging... 
>> http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp/2005/08/rails_debugging.html
> 
Hi, I might as well delurk.

I''ve been spending my time lately bringing Ruby into the Komodo
fold, and, yes, last week added support for multi-threaded
debugging.  Which meant Rails debugging as well.  Like another
poster has said on this thread, I''m currently loading
the file script/server, setting a breakpoint in the controller,
and pressing the Go button.   Komodo''s Linux-aware heritage
means that it doesn''t just use an extension to determine a filetype,
but also knows about shebang lines, Emacs -*- mode lines, and
possibly some other directives I''ve forgotten about.

I haven''t tried debugging rails apps running in other environments,
like mod_ruby, FastCGI, or lighttpd.  Komodo does debug mod_perl
handlers, so if mod_ruby handlers aren''t implemented too differently,
it shouldn''t be too difficult to support them.  [Can I qualify
that statement a little more?]

Komodo *is* a cross-product IDE.  We have been moving it from
the Mozilla platform to the Firefox platform (might not
sound like much of a difference, but it is).  While we
were renovating the codebase, we decided it was a good time
to finally target OS X as well.  So decisions were made to
get there first, and handle the other platforms later.

It also uses a tabbed multi-doc interface, and lets you create
projects for packaging sets of files.

I''ve already received feedback that parts of the Komodo editor
need work.  The main issue is that we made a concious decision
*not* to de-indent the word "end" when it''s the first word
on a line and the user has typed the ''d''.  Instead we
de-indent
on the character following the ''d'', such as a space or a
newline.
The problem is that people don''t edit existing code that way.
They insert the cursor in the middle of a buffer, press
a return, type something like (I''m emulating the auto-indenter here):

                [existing code before]
                if some_test
                     some_actions
                     end[|]
                [existing code after]

and then move the cursor from the point marked "[|]"
to somewhere else.  Plenty of alternatives here -- what I''m
getting at is that we''re open to hearing suggestions and
criticism.

Please excuse the commercial interlude.  We return you to your
regularly scheduled mailing list.

- Eric Promislow

I believe the ruby plugin for JEdit uses the JRuby parser to give some
code completion and the Eclipse plugin should have it eventually, but
not sure if it''ll make it in 0.6.

As others have said, the dynamic nature of ruby won''t let you get code
completion 100% of the time - method arguments and return types come
to mind.  Method comments could maybe help that situation, but that
would be up to the individual developer and I''m not sure if Ruby has
something like javadoc.

On 8/25/05, Martin Honermeyer
<maze-/iAHrS655dmM7HLlUNEGLrNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> 
> > You can do this in Arachno and Eclipse via integrated debugging. You
> > can breakpoint at any place and browse through all the objects in
> > memory. Arachno''s debugging is much faster than
Eclipse''s debugger so
> > if you are running an intensive application like Rails, you will want
> > to use Arachno, Eclipse just takes too long to be useful.
> 
> That means you can inspect the program __while debugging__. It would be
much
> better (and that''s probably what he meant) is to have
IntelliSense(r)-like
> features __during editing__!
> 
> So if typed "File.", there would be popup which lists all the
available
> class methods, where you could choose from. This had to be implemented
> through the use of Reflection. Neither Arachno nor Eclipse can do that,
> AFAIK. I think there is no IDE capable of doing that yet.
> 
> Because of the dynamic nature of Ruby, this is just a hard thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Greetz,
> Martin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

I am glad to hear about the future in regards to Komodo. It has been my
favorite editor for PHP projects. The issue you bring up in terms of the
"end" keyword might not be a problem for me personally. I
haven''t really
though about it. But I guess that "onblur" would be good, defined as,
when cursor leaves line or something like that.

Anyway, I have another pet-issue in Komodo. It''s been a while since I
did PHP stuff, which means that I haven''t used Komodo in an equal
amount
of time. Auto-complete and code-insight are real cool things to have. My
biggest problem with Komodo must be that it doesn''t really give much
code-insight. It allows for completing any variable I have used in the
current file. So that''s definitively an area to improve. If it could
come to the stage were it''d compete with the VS.NET insight I guess
I''d
call it complete. Also, I''d love more refactoring tools.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*Ronny Hanssen*/

Eric Promislow wrote:
> Justin Forder wrote:
> 
>> Rick Olson wrote:
>>
>>>> Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve
been hoping
>>>> ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported
languages, but
>>>> hadn''t seen it mentioned.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently it will support rails (and ruby) debugging...
>>> http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp/2005/08/rails_debugging.html
>>
>>
> 
> Hi, I might as well delurk.
> 
> I''ve been spending my time lately bringing Ruby into the Komodo
> fold, and, yes, last week added support for multi-threaded
> debugging.  Which meant Rails debugging as well.  Like another
> poster has said on this thread, I''m currently loading
> the file script/server, setting a breakpoint in the controller,
> and pressing the Go button.   Komodo''s Linux-aware heritage
> means that it doesn''t just use an extension to determine a
filetype,
> but also knows about shebang lines, Emacs -*- mode lines, and
> possibly some other directives I''ve forgotten about.
> 
> I haven''t tried debugging rails apps running in other
environments,
> like mod_ruby, FastCGI, or lighttpd.  Komodo does debug mod_perl
> handlers, so if mod_ruby handlers aren''t implemented too
differently,
> it shouldn''t be too difficult to support them.  [Can I qualify
> that statement a little more?]
> 
> Komodo *is* a cross-product IDE.  We have been moving it from
> the Mozilla platform to the Firefox platform (might not
> sound like much of a difference, but it is).  While we
> were renovating the codebase, we decided it was a good time
> to finally target OS X as well.  So decisions were made to
> get there first, and handle the other platforms later.
> 
> It also uses a tabbed multi-doc interface, and lets you create
> projects for packaging sets of files.
> 
> I''ve already received feedback that parts of the Komodo editor
> need work.  The main issue is that we made a concious decision
> *not* to de-indent the word "end" when it''s the first
word
> on a line and the user has typed the ''d''.  Instead we
de-indent
> on the character following the ''d'', such as a space or a
newline.
> The problem is that people don''t edit existing code that way.
> They insert the cursor in the middle of a buffer, press
> a return, type something like (I''m emulating the auto-indenter
here):
> 
>                [existing code before]
>                if some_test
>                     some_actions
>                     end[|]
>                [existing code after]
> 
> and then move the cursor from the point marked "[|]"
> to somewhere else.  Plenty of alternatives here -- what I''m
> getting at is that we''re open to hearing suggestions and
> criticism.
> 
> Please excuse the commercial interlude.  We return you to your
> regularly scheduled mailing list.
> 
> - Eric Promislow
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Eric Promislow wrote:
> Justin Forder wrote:
> 
>> Rick Olson wrote:
>>
>>>> Does Komodo have any specific support for Ruby? I''ve
been hoping
>>>> ActiveState would add Ruby to their list of supported
languages, but
>>>> hadn''t seen it mentioned.
>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently it will support rails (and ruby) debugging... 
>>> http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp/2005/08/rails_debugging.html
>>
> [...]
> Komodo *is* a cross-product IDE.  We have been moving it from
> the Mozilla platform to the Firefox platform (might not
> sound like much of a difference, but it is).  While we
> were renovating the codebase, we decided it was a good time
> to finally target OS X as well.  So decisions were made to
> get there first, and handle the other platforms later.
> 
> It also uses a tabbed multi-doc interface, and lets you create
> projects for packaging sets of files.
> 
> I''ve already received feedback that parts of the Komodo editor
> need work.  The main issue is that we made a concious decision
> *not* to de-indent the word "end" when it''s the first
word
> on a line and the user has typed the ''d''.  Instead [...]
> on the character following the ''d'', such as a space or a
newline.
Does this mean that the Ruby support is currently available in the 
downloadable alpha for MacOS X?

thanks, and more power to your elbow!

    Justin

On 8/24/05, Michael Neumann <mneumann@ntecs.de>
wrote:
> On Linux, I can strongly recommend Kate or KDevelop. Maybe someday (with
> QT4) they will be available on Windows, too.
I''ve added basic rails syntax support for Editors that make use of
kate part (Kate, Kdevelop, Quanta Plus)
There was a recent discussion (w/ instructions, and syntax file) of that here:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.devel.quanta.user/7286

I hope to start work this weekend on adding document structure view,
and auto-complete, to Quanta Plus (kdewebdev ide).

I''ve heard there are some ports of kde apps for windows, never used
them though. When I''m forced to use Windows, I use FreeRIDE. On *nix,
Quanta or kdevelop win hands down, depending on the app you''re coding.
(Rails->Quanta, Other ruby programming->kdevelop)

These can be compiled on OS X, via fink. Although < 10.4 there''s no
copy/paste between Aqua and X11

ps. Cross posting is nicely readable via gmail, assuming users are on
both lists. Which why would you not be?! ;)

-- 
Chris Martin
Web Developer
Open Source & Web Standards Advocate
http://www.chriscodes.com/

Justin Forder wrote:
> [...]
> 
> 
> Does this mean that the Ruby support is currently available in the 
> downloadable alpha for MacOS X?
Yes, it does.  The debugger version that ships with it doesn''t do
threads, or Rails.  I''ll set up a zip file that does for those who
are interested.
> 
> thanks, and more power to your elbow!
I can take that comment in several ways...  Thanks.  I guess.

-- 
Eric Promislow            Ruby guy at ActiveState
ericp-0OmgUqZ5G+O9C01uVemLPA@public.gmane.org    
http://blogs.activestate.com/ericp

> 
>    Justin

By "it will take a while" what do you mean. I mean - is it normal to
have to wait more than lets say 10 minutes?

Ronny

Jeff Barczewski wrote:
> The webrick script that you run script/server is the ruby file that
> you want to invoke in the debugger. For some editors I had to actually
> rename it to server.rb to be able to pick it, but either way it is the
> ruby script that loads everything up. So you basically have ruby
> launch server or server.rb (if you rename it) in the debugger and
> that''s all there is to it. Then just put a breakpoint and hit a
> webpage and you''ll stop at the breakpoint, ready to examine and
single
> step through the code. But it will take a while for rails to load up
> in the debugger in Eclipse. Much faster in Arachno.
>

Ruby uses the rdoc format. So that could be a valuable addition.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*Ronny Hanssen*/


Chris Ferrell wrote:
> I believe the ruby plugin for JEdit uses the JRuby parser to give some
> code completion and the Eclipse plugin should have it eventually, but
> not sure if it''ll make it in 0.6.
> 
> As others have said, the dynamic nature of ruby won''t let you get
code
> completion 100% of the time - method arguments and return types come
> to mind.  Method comments could maybe help that situation, but that
> would be up to the individual developer and I''m not sure if Ruby
has
> something like javadoc.
> 
> On 8/25/05, Martin Honermeyer
<maze-/iAHrS655dmM7HLlUNEGLrNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>>Jeff Barczewski wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You can do this in Arachno and Eclipse via integrated debugging. You
>>>can breakpoint at any place and browse through all the objects in
>>>memory. Arachno''s debugging is much faster than
Eclipse''s debugger so
>>>if you are running an intensive application like Rails, you will
want
>>>to use Arachno, Eclipse just takes too long to be useful.
>>
>>That means you can inspect the program __while debugging__. It would be
much
>>better (and that''s probably what he meant) is to have
IntelliSense(r)-like
>>features __during editing__!
>>
>>So if typed "File.", there would be popup which lists all the
available
>>class methods, where you could choose from. This had to be implemented
>>through the use of Reflection. Neither Arachno nor Eclipse can do that,
>>AFAIK. I think there is no IDE capable of doing that yet.
>>
>>Because of the dynamic nature of Ruby, this is just a hard thing to do.
>>
>>
>>
>>Greetz,
>>Martin
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rails mailing list
>>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Eric Promislow wrote:
> Justin Forder wrote:
> 
>> [...]
>>
>> Does this mean that the Ruby support is currently available in the 
>> downloadable alpha for MacOS X?
> 
> Yes, it does.  The debugger version that ships with it doesn''t do
> threads, or Rails.  I''ll set up a zip file that does for those who
> are interested.
Great - keep us posted.
> 
>> thanks, and more power to your elbow!
> 
> I can take that comment in several ways...  Thanks.  I guess.
:-) Maybe it was a bit idiomatic - to rephrase it, keep up the good work!

   Justin

Justin Forder wrote:
> Eric Promislow wrote:
> 
>> Justin Forder wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Does this mean that the Ruby support is currently available in the 
>>> downloadable alpha for MacOS X?
>>
>>
>> Yes, it does.  The debugger version that ships with it doesn''t
do
>> threads, or Rails.  I''ll set up a zip file that does for those
who
>> are interested.
> 
> 
> Great - keep us posted.
> 
Oh - just looked at http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/beta.plex
(interesting combination of "alpha", "beta" and
"test" terminology there)
and it appears that the alpha requires you to already have a license for 
Komodo Professional. I''d be happy to shell out $30 for the Personal 
licence (if I haven''t got one already) but couldn''t pay $295
just to
evaluate this!

regards

    Justin

Perhaps the massive demand for good ruby tools that the rails community 
is generating could be utilised to make some of these things happen.
I''m
happy to pay money for tools which speed my development, and I''m sure 
many others are two. I don''t mind buying a commercial IDE, but I
don''t
think that''s a good solution in the longer term (how do I get the
"next"
feature on my list of wants), so I''d rather sponser an open source
project.

Perhaps we could get together and offer bounties on some of the features 
that we want. The first thing that comes to mind for me is code 
completion, as mentioned by previous posts in this thread. I think that 
the eclipse plugins would be a good target for these bounties, because 
although eclipse probably isn''t the best ruby IDE at the moment, the 
eclipse platform brings with it many other usefull tools and most 
importantly, it is cross platform.

If I organised a bounty (or bounties) to pay the ruby-eclipse developers 
to implement a particular feature (such as code completion), would other 
people be interested in joining in? Also, what other features might 
people want to offer bounties on? My personal interests include rails 
integration (such a a graphical way to run rake tests), and automated 
refactoring tools. I''m not the slightest bit interested in debuggers, 
but others might be.

Craig

Chris Ferrell wrote:
>I believe the ruby plugin for JEdit uses the JRuby parser to give some
>code completion and the Eclipse plugin should have it eventually, but
>not sure if it''ll make it in 0.6.
>
>As others have said, the dynamic nature of ruby won''t let you get
code
>completion 100% of the time - method arguments and return types come
>to mind.  Method comments could maybe help that situation, but that
>would be up to the individual developer and I''m not sure if Ruby
has
>something like javadoc.
>

Count me in on that!

My rdt plugin wishlist:
 - erb syntax highlighting
 - code completion & intellisense (including comments based on the rdoc)
 - debugging is worth improving (the more experienced coders might not
feel for this, but it is a great way to get newbies started, and might
even take away a little bit of the load on this list :)
 - refactoring

That''s all for now. Instead of buying a commercial IDE that would do
the
job this does definitively make for a good replacement. It''d stimulate
developers to implement and fix features/issues. So, maybe there''ll be
more developers working on this too.

I sincerely support the idea of focusing this effort on eclipse/rdt.
There''s already a bunch of single editors out there. We need the
"bigger" environments to compete with other biggies out there. The
only
framework that I could seriously propose to my executives today would be
eclipse. Any of the other ones would not be considered heavy enough.
Don''t kill the messenger - that''s just the way things are.
Sorry dudes.

Go bountyhunting!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
/*Ronny Hanssen*/


Craig Ambrose wrote:
> Perhaps the massive demand for good ruby tools that the rails community
> is generating could be utilised to make some of these things happen.
I''m
> happy to pay money for tools which speed my development, and I''m
sure
> many others are two. I don''t mind buying a commercial IDE, but I
don''t
> think that''s a good solution in the longer term (how do I get the
"next"
> feature on my list of wants), so I''d rather sponser an open source
project.
> 
> Perhaps we could get together and offer bounties on some of the features
> that we want. The first thing that comes to mind for me is code
> completion, as mentioned by previous posts in this thread. I think that
> the eclipse plugins would be a good target for these bounties, because
> although eclipse probably isn''t the best ruby IDE at the moment,
the
> eclipse platform brings with it many other usefull tools and most
> importantly, it is cross platform.
> 
> If I organised a bounty (or bounties) to pay the ruby-eclipse developers
> to implement a particular feature (such as code completion), would other
> people be interested in joining in? Also, what other features might
> people want to offer bounties on? My personal interests include rails
> integration (such a a graphical way to run rake tests), and automated
> refactoring tools. I''m not the slightest bit interested in
debuggers,
> but others might be.
> 
> Craig
> 
<snip>

On 8/25/05, Ronny Hanssen <ronnyh-7tg5dEkr+6sdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> of time. Auto-complete and code-insight are real cool things to have. My
> biggest problem with Komodo must be that it doesn''t really give
much
> code-insight. It allows for completing any variable I have used in the
> current file. So that''s definitively an area to improve. If it
could
> come to the stage were it''d compete with the VS.NET insight 
Any Ruby or Ruby on Rails IDE will have a VERY hard time reaching the
same kind of intellisense/auto-completion as in Visual Studio. This is
because Ruby is dynamically typed and C# (and Java) is statically
typed.Read more
in:http://www.zefhemel.com/archives/2004/10/04/dynamically-typed-languages

-- 
Jonas Elfström

> Any Ruby or Ruby on Rails IDE will have a VERY hard time reaching the
> same kind of intellisense/auto-completion as in Visual Studio. This is
> because Ruby is dynamically typed and C# (and Java) is statically
> typed.Read more
> in:http://www.zefhemel.com/archives/2004/10/04/dynamically-typed-languages
php is dynamically typed, and yet there are IDE''s out there that have
pretty good code completion capabilities.

In ruby, if I create a custom class, then create an instance of that
class, the IDE could pull up the methods from that class, or I could
choose to treat it in a different way.  The IDE will never be able to
come up with every code completion possibility.

If it was really important that you be able to have code completion,
perhaps a meta-language could be defined for you to describe your
methods and variables to the IDE, but would be ignored by the
intrepreter.  Visual Studio does this with:

///<summary>
///Yo
///</summary>

Hell, because the meta language could  be recognized by the compiler,
you could have code completion with that!

I''m just thinking ''outloud'' here, but here is an
example of what such
a meta-language could be like:


class MyClass
   def DoThatFunkyThing( arg1, arg2, arg3 )
   # arg1: int
   # arg2: string
   # arg3: MyCustomDataType

   end
end

Of course, that''s just the beginning, and there are thousands of
different ways to do this.  How often do you create a function that
takes arguments which will be of several different datatypes? I''m new
to ruby, so I might still be in the ''staticall typed'' mindset,
but it
seems that most methods will be using a certain set of datatypes.

Am I crazy?

I''m trying out ArachnoRuby, and the debugging is helpful for a newbie
like me to be able to inspect objects at runtime. What I can''t seem to
figure out is how to launch irb while pausing the script at a
breakpoint in order to execute/evaluate code. Does anyone know how to
do that ? Tx.

-- 
"Impossible is nothing."

Justin Forder wrote:
> Eric Promislow wrote:
> 
>> Justin Forder wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Does this mean that the Ruby support is currently available in the 
>>> downloadable alpha for MacOS X?
>>
>>
>> Yes, it does.  The debugger version that ships with it doesn''t
do
>> threads, or Rails.  I''ll set up a zip file that does for those
who
>> are interested.
> 
> 
> Great - keep us posted.
> 
>>
>>> thanks, and more power to your elbow!
>>
>>
>> I can take that comment in several ways...  Thanks.  I guess.
> 
> 
> :-) Maybe it was a bit idiomatic - to rephrase it, keep up the good work!
> 
>   Justin
Nawww, I thought maybe we had a mutual friend.  I gave myself a bout
of tendonitis earlier this summer throwing long-distance boomerangs
(120 meters, and back, although I never did get that second part to
work all the way).  Then yesterday redid it while playing extreme
croquet.  Don''t ask.

- Eric

<snip>
Oh - just looked at http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/beta.plex
(interesting combination of "alpha", "beta" and
"test" terminology there)
and it appears that the alpha requires you to already have a license for
Komodo Professional. I''d be happy to shell out $30 for the Personal
licence (if I haven''t got one already) but couldn''t pay $295
just to
evaluate this!
</snip>

You don''t have to pay for testing the beta version - they''ll
give you
a license for the test version when you sign up to test. Right now the
professional version is the only one available, but I''m assuming
they''ll release the personal edition eventually.

I''m once again suprised that no-one is talking about eric3, which was
a Python IDE, but the latest version has Ruby support:

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

Supports all sorts of good stuff, and interactive debugging, and is
free. I''ve only just started playing with it, but it seems nice. One
problem I had was debugging Rails apps, it seems to screw up the
interpreter paths for some reason, but I''m looking into it.

On 27/08/05, M. Bitner <moexu13-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> <snip>
> Oh - just looked at http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/beta.plex
> (interesting combination of "alpha", "beta" and
"test" terminology there)
> and it appears that the alpha requires you to already have a license for
> Komodo Professional. I''d be happy to shell out $30 for the
Personal
> licence (if I haven''t got one already) but couldn''t pay
$295 just to
> evaluate this!
> </snip>
> 
> You don''t have to pay for testing the beta version -
they''ll give you
> a license for the test version when you sign up to test. Right now the
> professional version is the only one available, but I''m assuming
> they''ll release the personal edition eventually.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

I wonder if you could just hook into irb/completion.rb? Seems pretty cool.

-Dale

On 8/25/05, Jeff Barczewski
<jeff.barczewski-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> Yes, that is a feature (code completion) I love about most modern
> IDE''s like Eclipse when developing Java.
> 
> >From what I remember Eclipse and Arachno had some completion
> capabilities but certainly not complete like for Java. jEdit also had
> a minimal amount of completion capabilities for ruby too.
> 
> Part of the difficulty is due to the dynamic nature of ruby.
> 
> However if one could marry the editor with IRB... IRB already does
> have tab code completion capabilities. So if it were possible to marry
> an editor to IRB or to invoke IRB behind the scenes, then you could
> use it to give you the completion list.
> 
> On 8/25/05, Martin Honermeyer
<maze-/iAHrS655dmM7HLlUNEGLrNAH6kLmebB@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> > That means you can inspect the program __while debugging__. It would
be
> much
> > better (and that''s probably what he meant) is to have 
> IntelliSense(r)-like
> > features __during editing__!
> >
> > So if typed "File.", there would be popup which lists all
the available
> > class methods, where you could choose from. This had to be implemented
> > through the use of Reflection. Neither Arachno nor Eclipse can do
that,
> > AFAIK. I think there is no IDE capable of doing that yet.
> >
> > Because of the dynamic nature of Ruby, this is just a hard thing to
do.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 


-- 
All creativity is an extended form of a joke.
- Alan Kay


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