Hello all.>From the "power that be":Show me that Rails is "mainstream". Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE Peter J. Fitzgibbons Applications Manager Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org (847) 884-8800 _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:> Hello all. > > From the "power that be": > > Show me that Rails is "mainstream". > > Clearly vs. .NET or J2EEIts irrelevant whether or not Rails is mainstream. I think developers are interested in Rails because they get results -- fast results -- with rails, and could care less whether or not it fits any definition of mainstream. Curt
On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote:> From the "power that be": > > Show me that Rails is "mainstream". > > Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE>From "someone who cares about delivering value":Why does it matter? -- Nathaniel Talbott <:((><
Ahh, but a network-admin or tech-saffy administrative chief does not
feel this viewpoint.
They want to know things like supportability, restaffing (should I,
their lone wolf, get lost under a bus), and sustainability ("how could
10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7)
Peter J. Fitzgibbons
Applications Manager
Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r)
Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org
(847) 884-8800
-----Original Message-----
From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
[mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Curt Hibbs
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:29 AM
To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ?
Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:> Hello all.
>
> From the "power that be":
>
> Show me that Rails is "mainstream".
>
> Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE
Its irrelevant whether or not Rails is mainstream. I think developers
are interested in Rails because they get results -- fast results -- with
rails, and could care less whether or not it fits any definition of
mainstream.
Curt
_______________________________________________
Rails mailing list
Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
Oh, and the fact that we have 3 "very critical" projects running now and there is a concern that the rebuild I''m posing to do will just take too long after the current project list. Its more of a "if we outsource, we may be looking for something more mainstream." Peter J. Fitzgibbons Applications Manager Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org (847) 884-8800 -----Original Message----- From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org [mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Nathaniel Talbott Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:31 AM To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote:> From the "power that be": > > Show me that Rails is "mainstream". > > Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE>From "someone who cares about delivering value":Why does it matter? -- Nathaniel Talbott <:((>< _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
Peter, perhaps refer him to the Bruce Perens post about Fortune 500 companies who are using or are interested in Rails. Joshua On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Oh, and the fact that we have 3 "very critical" projects running now and > there is a concern that the rebuild I''m posing to do will just take too > long after the current project list. Its more of a "if we outsource, we > may be looking for something more mainstream." > > > Peter J. Fitzgibbons > Applications Manager > Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) > Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org > (847) 884-8800 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > [mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Nathaniel > Talbott > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:31 AM > To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? > > On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> > wrote: > > > From the "power that be": > > > > Show me that Rails is "mainstream". > > > > Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE > > >From "someone who cares about delivering value": > > Why does it matter? > > > -- > > Nathaniel Talbott > > <:((>< > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >_______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
have a link to that one? Gmane doesn''t. Peter J. Fitzgibbons Applications Manager Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org (847) 884-8800 ________________________________ From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org [mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Sierles Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:38 AM To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? Peter, perhaps refer him to the Bruce Perens post about Fortune 500 companies who are using or are interested in Rails. Joshua On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote: Oh, and the fact that we have 3 "very critical" projects running now and there is a concern that the rebuild I''m posing to do will just take too long after the current project list. Its more of a "if we outsource, we may be looking for something more mainstream." Peter J. Fitzgibbons Applications Manager Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org (847) 884-8800 -----Original Message----- From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org [mailto: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org <mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> ] On Behalf Of Nathaniel Talbott Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:31 AM To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote: > From the "power that be": > > Show me that Rails is "mainstream". > > Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE >From "someone who cares about delivering value": Why does it matter? -- Nathaniel Talbott <:((>< _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
On 05-08-05, at 10:33, Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:> Ahh, but a network-admin or tech-saffy administrative chief does not > feel this viewpoint. > They want to know things like supportability, restaffing (should I, > their lone wolf, get lost under a bus), and sustainability ("how could > 10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7)My gut feeling is that Rails is not yet mainstream (whatever that means), but it''s rapidly gaining mindshare. The volume on this mailing list is phenomenal, which always raises a red flag for me. We''ve also got a number of high-profile Java developers on Rails. In the long run, I think that will have a considerable impact on Java developers as a whole. It will be quite awhile, though, before Rails can rival Java or .NET as far as the number of developers. But that equivalence is not my definition of mainstream. david> > > > > Peter J. Fitzgibbons > Applications Manager > Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) > Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org > (847) 884-8800 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > [mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Curt Hibbs > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:29 AM > To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? > > Peter Fitzgibbons wrote: > >> Hello all. >> >> From the "power that be": >> >> Show me that Rails is "mainstream". >> >> Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE >> > > Its irrelevant whether or not Rails is mainstream. I think developers > are interested in Rails because they get results -- fast results -- > with > rails, and could care less whether or not it fits any definition of > mainstream. > > Curt > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >
It''s apparently relevant to "the powers that be" for this particular fella. Why give him grief over his situation? On Aug 5, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Curt Hibbs wrote:> Peter Fitzgibbons wrote: > >> Hello all. >> From the "power that be": >> Show me that Rails is "mainstream". >> Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE >> > > Its irrelevant whether or not Rails is mainstream. I think > developers are interested in Rails because they get results -- fast > results -- with rails, and could care less whether or not it fits > any definition of mainstream. > > Curt > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >
Peter Fitzgibbons said:> Ahh, but a network-admin or tech-saffy administrative chief does not > feel this viewpoint. > They want to know things like supportability, restaffing (should I, > their lone wolf, get lost under a bus), and sustainability ("how could > 10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7)At this point in Rails'' life span, I''d probably recommend to your superiors to go PHP or something else (Java, .NET). Depending on the scope of the project, they may be in a tight spot if that bus rolls your way. It''s one thing to want to use a technology because it''s exciting, new, and now. It''s another thing to accept unnecessary risk simply to satisfy that craving. Rails is a new and pretty cool hammer...just make sure you don''t suddenly see everything as a nail. My 2 cents. John
On Fri, 2005-08-05 at 13:08 -0400, Toby Boudreaux wrote:> It''s apparently relevant to "the powers that be" for this particular > fella. Why give him grief over his situation? >Yeah but in that case....If you have to ask...... :-p -Matt B> > On Aug 5, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Curt Hibbs wrote: > > > Peter Fitzgibbons wrote: > > > >> Hello all. > >> From the "power that be": > >> Show me that Rails is "mainstream". > >> Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE > >> > > > > Its irrelevant whether or not Rails is mainstream. I think > > developers are interested in Rails because they get results -- fast > > results -- with rails, and could care less whether or not it fits > > any definition of mainstream. > > > > Curt > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails mailing list > > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Oh, and the fact that we have 3 "very critical" projects running now and > there is a concern that the rebuild I''m posing to do will just take too > long after the current project list. Its more of a "if we outsource, we > may be looking for something more mainstream."First of all, sorry for sounding a bit snippy with my first reply - I misinterpreted your question (thought you were a "power that be," not stuck with one). Anyhow, if the concern is with the ability to outsource work, perhaps this would help: http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/show/WorkingProfessionallyWithRails There are a boatload of people making money off of Rails - and I guarantee a lot of them would be more than willing to help you with your outsourcing needs. One advantage of Rails not being mainstream is that the community using it is still self-selecting - it''s largely folks who care, not folks looking to pad their resume with another buzz-word. HTH, -- Nathaniel Talbott <:((><
Peter Fitzgibbons wrote:>Ahh, but a network-admin or tech-saffy administrative chief does not >feel this viewpoint. >They want to know things like supportability, restaffing (should I, >their lone wolf, get lost under a bus), and sustainability ("how could >10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7) > > > > >Peter J. Fitzgibbons >Applications Manager >Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) >Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org >(847) 884-8800 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org >[mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Curt Hibbs >Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:29 AM >To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org >Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? > >Peter Fitzgibbons wrote: > > >>Hello all. >> >> From the "power that be": >> >>Show me that Rails is "mainstream". >> >>Clearly vs. .NET or J2EE >> >> > >Its irrelevant whether or not Rails is mainstream. I think developers >are interested in Rails because they get results -- fast results -- with >rails, and could care less whether or not it fits any definition of >mainstream. > >Curt >_______________________________________________ >Rails mailing list >Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org >http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > >_______________________________________________ >Rails mailing list >Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org >http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > >I think it really is quite irrelevant if Rails is mainstream or not. If I was in your situation I would just do a small rails app in my free time and show it to my admins and boss. When they see how quick it is to develop in Rails and train new people to work in it the whole mainstream thing is exposed as the joke metric that it is. With that said if you really need some facts: -DHH the creator of rails was named Best Hacker Of The Year by Google and O''reilly. These two companies know that rails is going somewhere. -The rails book has sold over 5,000 copies. It hasn''t even been released yet(heading to the stores right now if I understand things). That is a really big number for preorders on a programming book. -http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/show/RealWorldUsage is a nice big long list of real world rails apps. These are just the public ones. Rails is exploding in the private web sector. -http://wiki.rubyonrails.com/rails/show/WorkingProfessionallyWithRails a partial list of people earning a substancial amount of their income from Rails. If they hold to the attitude that rails is not a choice simply because there are 10 million people out there who use .net instead of rails then I would seriously consider finding another place of employment. With that same attitude one could say that we should still be writing programs in assembly because at one time more people were using it than C. -Matthew Margolis
On Fri, 2005-08-05 at 13:41 -0400, John Wells wrote:> Peter Fitzgibbons said: > > Ahh, but a network-admin or tech-saffy administrative chief does not > > feel this viewpoint. > > They want to know things like supportability,It''s open source. Ask for help!> restaffing (should I, > > their lone wolf, get lost under a bus),There are Ruby programmers around the globe. I''m sure many of them could use a new job. (especially all those who are stuck working in .net,java, php, etc and secretly dream of leaving their job to work in ruby/rails all day)> and sustainability ("how could > > 10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7) >... self-explanatory. :-p> At this point in Rails'' life span, I''d probably recommend to your > superiors to go PHP or something else (Java, .NET). Depending on the > scope of the project, they may be in a tight spot if that bus rolls your > way. >I disagree. If Rails can do what you need, go for it. Otherwise, you''ll just end up rebuilding it in Ruby/Rails in 2 years when it becomes more "sustainable."> It''s one thing to want to use a technology because it''s exciting, new, and > now. It''s another thing to accept unnecessary risk simply to satisfy that > craving. >That''s what they said about Linux...> Rails is a new and pretty cool hammer...just make sure you don''t suddenly > see everything as a nail.I''d hit it. :-) my cheap 2 cents, -Robby -- /****************************************************** * Robby Russell, Owner.Developer.Geek * PLANET ARGON, Open Source Solutions & Web Hosting * Portland, Oregon | p: 503.351.4730 | f: 815.642.4068 * www.planetargon.com | www.robbyonrails.com *******************************************************/
On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Ahh, but a network-admin or tech-saffy administrative chief does not > feel this viewpoint. > They want to know things like supportability, restaffing (should I, > their lone wolf, get lost under a bus), and sustainability ("how could > 10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7)10yrs ago, Java was not "mainstream" 5yrs ago, .NET was not "mainstream" With the millions of systems running insecure OS''s, how could those users be "wrong"? If they are "typical" management, you''ll get nowhere in this fight but might be able to sneak in a big "I told you so" in a few years when they''re scrambling to hop on the bandwagon...then again, maybe not. As for supportability, I have seen some of the best help on this list and many seem to always be willing to look at code/db structure. In my humble opinion, any developer worth hiring could easily get up & running with Ruby and Rails in under a week. They won''t be an expert but they would be able to tackle the majority of issues on their own. As for restaffing, the best skill some of the excellent developers/troubleshooters I work with have is flexibility. They have the "whole" picture and aren''t sidelined into zealotry of one particular language/technology even though we all have our favorite. What you may need to explain to mgmt is that Ruby is the language, Rails is the framework and give them a cost/benefit and pro/con matrix comparing what is equivalent in java/.net/php if applicable. Anyway, YMMV, good luck in your effort to convince those above. Clay Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions at any time ;)
I think in most cases mainstream is just a combination of time and good product. Rails is very new to the market and is now enjoying a tremendous gain in public awareness. Just today I was visiting with one of my business consultants and was surprised that he had "heard the buzz" about Ruby on Rails. Considering that he focuses more on the management side of business, that was impressive. It will take a couple of brave souls to build those truly effective applications on Rails (like Postnuke for PHP, or Roller for J2EE). I for one am working on a project that I hope to release open source (still working it out with my investors/consultants). We started in J2EE (Spring/Hibernate/JSF) and decided to shift over to Rails. I will be blogging a summary on the reasons for the shift, but largely it was because we could. The timing was right and I think that we''ve made a good choice. Additionally, once the applications and demand grows, the rest of the market will begin to respond. Hosting providers have already begun including Rails support, developers are gearing up on Ruby, etc. The question is a matter of risk. For those who see the tremendous benefit of Rails, the community and attention with this project, and take the dive, there is a great deal of gained momentum. Further down the road you may find yourself in the place that everyone else desires to be. To be honest, I''ve never really understood the term risk. Not taking risks is the most risky option in my esteem. After all, as Edison put it (loosely quoted), "Most people miss opportunity because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." My three cents... -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ D''Andrew Thompson http://dathompson.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
Robby Russell said:> I disagree. If Rails can do what you need, go for it. Otherwise, you''ll > just end up rebuilding it in Ruby/Rails in 2 years when it becomes more > "sustainable."Really? Why? If as a manager I chose to go another route, beit Java or PHP, I''d still have very capable platforms as the base for my application. There''d be no motivation to migrate, unless my developers simply longed for the ease that RoR provides and made a good case, or unless the situation had changed so much that RoR truly had the bigger pool of available developers (as PHP and Java have today). It''s always a (benefit/(cost + risk) > 0) sort of decision for me (disclaimer: I''m in management ;)).> That''s what they said about Linux...I''ve been involved in the successful campaign for adopting Linux in three different companies now, and I can tell you what made us successful was the ability to make a very good business case for adopting Linux by demonstrating the financial benefit far exceeded the risk. I''m not sure how I''d make that case for RoR currently...the 10x faster argument only goes so far and is not yet proven within our company. That said, we''re actually working on a pilot project to try to prove just that. But, it seems Peter is attempting to justify and defend the decision to develop everything at his company in Rails, without truly understanding (or having taken the the time to try to understand) the potential drawbacks and risks. That''s risky from a personal perspective more than anything. Rails is HOT right now, and with that heat comes, in my opinion, occasional irrationality when making decisions.> I''d hit it. :-)And I''d hit it as well, but I''d perhaps build a doghouse first and see how it goes for you, before recommending to my managers that we build *every* house with it! My cheaper 2 cents ;) John
Heya :)> -----Original Message----- > From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org [mailto:rails- > bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Wells > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:41 PM > To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > Cc: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > Subject: RE: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? > > Rails is a new and pretty cool hammer...just make sure you don''t suddenly > see everything as a nail.Well said. Sometimes, in some situations, a language / framework with the backing of a large vendor, a good track record and great development tools is the right "hammer". Soulhuntre ---------- http://www.girl2.com - my girls http://www.the-estate.com - my legacy http://wiki.thegreybook.com - my project http://weblog.soulhuntre.com - my thoughts
On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Ahh, but a network-admin or tech-saffy administrative chief does not > feel this viewpoint. > They want to know things like supportability, restaffing (should I, > their lone wolf, get lost under a bus), and sustainability ("how could > 10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7) >Let''s rephrase: "How could 10 million .NET users be any better than average?" If average is good enough. Go with .NET or J2EE. -- Regards, -Mark http://leansoftwarecincinnati.blogspot.com/
Mark Windholtz wrote:>On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > >>("how could 10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7) >> >>There''s this sign on the way to Canon City, CO that says something like "25 million people can''t be wrong," and I always wanted to sit that 25 million people down in front of a multi-variable calc problem and see how it holds up... Dave
Exactly! Peter J. Fitzgibbons Applications Manager Lakewood Homes - "The American Dream Builder"(r) Peter.Fitzgibbons-STCS76aLmhk1y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org (847) 884-8800 -----Original Message----- From: rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org [mailto:rails-bounces-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave Newton Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:04 PM To: rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [Rails] Rails is Mainstream ? Mark Windholtz wrote:>On 8/5/05, Peter Fitzgibbons <Peter.Fitzgibbons-p2lxMnUesd41y/cD6r8xzl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>wrote:> > >>("how could 10 million .NET users be wrong?" :7) >> >>There''s this sign on the way to Canon City, CO that says something like "25 million people can''t be wrong," and I always wanted to sit that 25 million people down in front of a multi-variable calc problem and see how it holds up... Dave _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails