Hi, assume the following model: person -> team -> institution person <- (leader) team Persons are organized in teams which are linked to organizations (so indirectly persons are related to institutions). Further each team has a leader (which of course is a person). Now I want to list all persons who are linked to institutions which are located in Berlin except the person with id = 1. Is there a way to do something like that Person.find(:all, :conditions => "team.institution.place = ''Berlin'' and team.leader.id != 1") or is it one for the wish list? Ciao, Bjoern