Rails - Apr 2005 - I went to the Apple store today...

I really don''t want to start any flame wars or anything, so if you have
anything negative to say about one platform vs. another, please refrain from 
doing so. I just wanted to share an experience and see if it has happened to 
anyone else. Ok, got that out of the way, hopefully this won''t turn
into a
200+ reply madness like that java people want to beat us thread.

So, I was at the mall today and decided to stop in at the Apple store and 
check out one of these bad boys myself. After that post by DHH and the 
reaction that it got, I thought to myself that the best way to pass 
judgement would be to experience a mac first hand. Granted I didn''t get
a
chance to use it to develop anything or run any rails apps, but I just 
wanted to get a feel for the OS itself.

At first I was a bit "weirded out". I liked the pretty icons and the
smooth
animation, but I didn''t understand how it all fit together. I had
programs
open which I didn''t know about. I had trouble closing some programs. I 
didn''t have a RIGHT mouse button! So my first impression as an avid PC
user
wasn''t all too positive. I''m not one to pass judgement
quickly, so I kept on
playing around and trying to figure out the ins and outs of the thing.

It seems like the people working in the Apple store really love these things 
and are extremely happy to help you out and try to show you why the mac is 
so good. A lot of them are also prior PC users who used to build their own 
machines and what not. So in a way, I felt comfertable with the gentlemen 
who was helping me out. He completely understood my point of view because he 
was once like that himself. It was because of him that I was able to see how 
the OS really worked and why it was so "intuitive", so thanks (I
forget his
name) !

Of course I asked him the usual questions, like "where is the start 
button?", "where do my programs get installed?", "why do I
have to press a
keyboard button to emulate a right click?", "how do I know which
programs
are currently running?", "why are these things so damn pretty?"
:-)

Naturally he came back with quick responses for each question and showed me 
how everything worked. Start button? you don''t need no
stinkin'' start
button. He explained to me that 95% of the time you will always be accessing 
the same number of applications on your computer (with which I had to 
agree). He pointed out that those commonly used applications are easily 
accessible form that cool menu on the bottom. But if I ever needed to access 
other programs to add new icons to that menu, I just go to the Macintosh HD, 
click on Applications and I have access to everything right there. I can 
easily drag and drop any application from there to the desktop or to that 
menu. Sweet.. so far so good. This led to the answer to my next question 
about where my programs get installed. Apparently, on the Mac, there is no 
such thing as a "Registry" or "System files" or
"Uninstalls". Impossible! He
quickly installed a program with a few clicks. It appeared in the 
applications folder. He then took that progam and dragged it into the trash 
bin. It was "uninstalled". How about all the system files, registry
keys,
common files, etc? There are none. It''s all packaged together and when
you
move it into the trash bin, its gone. nothing else to worry about. Nice.

Moving on to the next topic, the single buttoned mouse. From the creator of 
the macs (Steve Jobs), you shouldn''t need to access any
"special" menus to
work with your computer. Its not "intuitive", so all the common 
functionality is always accessible with a single click. In those uncommon 
cases where you do need to access special menus, you will have to hold down 
the command (or was it ctrl?) key and press the mouse button. He also told 
me that you can always purchase a regular 2 (or 3) button mouse and use 
that, since the OS supports it. So thats cool, no problems there.

What programs are actively running? the easiest way to find out is to look 
at that cool menu on the bottom and the icons with a little black arrow 
below them means those programs are running. Simple enough. But then he 
showed me Expose! Wow. that thing is amazing. I guess its a new feature of 
the current release of OS X. You have to see this thing in action to really 
appreciate it. Simply put, it allows you to switch between programs and see 
whats going on and which windows are open in a way you would never be able 
to do on Windows. Say you have 10 windows open, all different programs. You 
press F9 and every single window shrinks on the screen and is displayed next 
to each other. This way you can see everything at once and simply click on 
the program you want to interact with. Wait, there''s more.. Say out of
those
10 windows, 4 of them are word documents that you have open and you are 
currently working on one of those word documents. You press F10 and only the 
word document windows shrink and are displayed to you side by side. 
Everything else is kinda faded out and in the background. And the last key, 
F11 just hides everything and shows you your desktop for easy access to your 
desktop icons. Really cool stuff. You gotta see it

So yeah, I went into the store and felt a bit weird about everything, but I 
left the store and quickly put away the $5 I was going to spend on some ice 
cream so that I could save up money and buy an iMac. Do I think they are 
that much better than a PC and you can do things better and be more 
productive? I can''t really say that at this point, cause like I said, I
didn''t get a chance to actually sit down and do any development work on
it.
But the really intuitive interface, the stable OS and not having to worry 
about viruses, spyware, etc. sure adds value to this machine. Far too often 
I''ve spent whole weekends trying to build a PC and getting extremely 
frustrated. Far too often I''ve had windows crash on me and lost tons of
work. Far too often I''ve had to run norton and adaware to get rid of
IE''s
incompetence. Far too oftens far enough. I think I need to experience the 
Mac now. I advise all the PC users to go into an Apple store and just spend 
about 15-20 minutes with one of them. The best thing is to ask for some help 
and have an experienced Mac user show you how everything works. Ask lots of 
questions and insist that they show you how the same functionality that you 
are so used to on a windows can be accomplished on a Mac. 

Thanks for listening and please please please don''t make this into a PC
vs.
Mac war. Just respond with something positive or anything else about the Mac 
that you think is cool that I wasn''t able to experince during my visit.
I
really don''t need to hear about the "cool" features of the PC
and Windows
because I already know everything there is know about them. I''m more 
interested in using the Mac and how it "compares" to the PC.

P.S. If you play lots of games, I would still keep a PC around, but besides 
that, I dont see any other reason why you would need one. honestly.
P.S.S. This story is completely true and I''ve been a PC user ALL my
life.
I''ve always disliked the Mac and never really understood it or felt 
comfertable with it, but today I left the store a changed man!

-- 
- Ramin
http://www.getintothis.com/blog


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On Apr 3, 2005 8:31 PM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
<snip>
>  Thanks for listening and please please please don''t make this
into a PC vs.
> Mac war. Just respond with something positive or anything else about the
Mac
> that you think is cool that I wasn''t able to experince during my
visit. I
> really don''t need to hear about the "cool" features of
the PC and Windows
> because I already know everything there is know about them. I''m
more
> interested in using the Mac and how it "compares" to the PC.
>  
>  P.S. If you play lots of games, I would still keep a PC around, but
besides
> that, I dont see any other reason why you would need one. honestly.
>  P.S.S. This story is completely true and I''ve been a PC user ALL
my life.
> I''ve always disliked the Mac and never really understood it or
felt
> comfertable with it, but today I left the store a changed man!
The unix terminal is cool.  Quicksilver is cool.  If you have a
laptop, instant on after a suspend is cool.  The animation of
switching logged in users is cool.  Newsfire is cool.

(google for app names if you''re unfamiliar with them)

On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:31 PM, Ramin wrote:
>  P.S.S. This story is completely true and I''ve been a PC user ALL
my
> life. I''ve always disliked the Mac and never really understood it
or
> felt comfertable with it, but today I left the store a changed man!
>
Thanks for sharing your experience, Ramin. As a recent convert to the 
Mac, a lot of what you talked about rang true for me, too. I, too, once 
swore up and down that I''d never come within spitting distance of a 
Mac. However, I switched from Linux, rather than Windows--not because I 
was dissatisfied with Linux, but because I went to work for 37signals, 
and we all know how DHH feels about those other OS''s. ;) (No, 37s 
didn''t strong-arm me into switching. After seeing David work on his 
Mac, and hearing from the other signals how nice the Mac is, I was 
actually eager to give OSX a try.)

Honestly, I haven''t regretted the switch. At all. True, I still find 
myself trying to copy/paste by just selecting the text and 
middle-clicking (yah, I can''t live with a one-button mouse...went and 
got a USB wheel mouse for $15). True, I had to find a desktop manager 
program so I could have my multiple desktops (and it''s still not quite 
as nice as multiple desktops in X). True, I''m still getting used to 
some of the quirky differences between the PC keyboard and the one on 
my PowerBook. And, true, I''m still figuring out how best to adapt my 
way of thinking/working so as to make the most out of the Mac. But so 
far, so good. :) And I love love love *love* the UI.

My biggest issue right now is finding the "right" way to install 
software from source. Gentoo really spoiled me in that regard. Yah, I 
know about fink and darwinports, and I know Gentoo even has portage for 
Mac OS, but I haven''t decided which approach will work best for me on 
the Mac. For now, I''m just doing "configure/make/make
install", which
works fine, but I haven''t needed to uninstall anything yet. ;)

- Jamis

Anyone know if there is a way to make the mac terminal or filesystem
properly case sensitive.  A friend of mine who is all about macs but
still was quite perturbed when he was bitten by this.  He had an alias
for rm to rm -i, but note that it was an alias for rm.  However he
mistyped once while deleting a directory * and accidently type Rm or
RM I can''t remember which.  Anyhow apparently while whatever the
default shell in os x is case sensitive, so the alias didn''t grab the
Rm or RM cause it didn''t match, but the underlying file system
isn''t
case insensitive.  And so the shell happily fired up the real rm
command without any -i option and proceeded to blow away the
directory.  Luckily it wasn''t anything too critical, but nonetheless
he was less then pleased.  Certainly not a deal breaker for him, he
still likes the platform, but it rattled him a bit.  Anyone know if
this is fixable, and if it isn''t are there any other weird
inconsistancies between what those of us who are used to a commandline
might run into using a commandline on osx?
  Charles Comstock

On Apr 3, 2005 10:45 PM, Joe Van Dyk
<joevandyk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> On Apr 3, 2005 8:31 PM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> <snip>
> >  Thanks for listening and please please please don''t make
this into a PC vs.
> > Mac war. Just respond with something positive or anything else about
the Mac
> > that you think is cool that I wasn''t able to experince during
my visit. I
> > really don''t need to hear about the "cool" features
of the PC and Windows
> > because I already know everything there is know about them.
I''m more
> > interested in using the Mac and how it "compares" to the PC.
> >
> >  P.S. If you play lots of games, I would still keep a PC around, but
besides
> > that, I dont see any other reason why you would need one. honestly.
> >  P.S.S. This story is completely true and I''ve been a PC user
ALL my life.
> > I''ve always disliked the Mac and never really understood it
or felt
> > comfertable with it, but today I left the store a changed man!
> 
> The unix terminal is cool.  Quicksilver is cool.  If you have a
> laptop, instant on after a suspend is cool.  The animation of
> switching logged in users is cool.  Newsfire is cool.
> 
> (google for app names if you''re unfamiliar with them)
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

AFAIK, case-sensitivity is an option only available with Mac OS X 
Server 10.3.  Here is a brief description:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107863

Tom

On Apr 3, 2005, at 11:02 PM, Charles Comstock wrote:
> Anyone know if there is a way to make the mac terminal or filesystem
> properly case sensitive.  A friend of mine who is all about macs but
> still was quite perturbed when he was bitten by this.  He had an alias
> for rm to rm -i, but note that it was an alias for rm.  However he
> mistyped once while deleting a directory * and accidently type Rm or
> RM I can''t remember which.  Anyhow apparently while whatever the
> default shell in os x is case sensitive, so the alias didn''t grab
the
> Rm or RM cause it didn''t match, but the underlying file system
isn''t
> case insensitive.  And so the shell happily fired up the real rm
> command without any -i option and proceeded to blow away the
> directory.  Luckily it wasn''t anything too critical, but
nonetheless
> he was less then pleased.  Certainly not a deal breaker for him, he
> still likes the platform, but it rattled him a bit.  Anyone know if
> this is fixable, and if it isn''t are there any other weird
> inconsistancies between what those of us who are used to a commandline
> might run into using a commandline on osx?
>   Charles Comstock
>
> On Apr 3, 2005 10:45 PM, Joe Van Dyk
<joevandyk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> On Apr 3, 2005 8:31 PM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>  Thanks for listening and please please please don''t make
this into
>>> a PC vs.
>>> Mac war. Just respond with something positive or anything else
about
>>> the Mac
>>> that you think is cool that I wasn''t able to experince
during my
>>> visit. I
>>> really don''t need to hear about the "cool"
features of the PC and
>>> Windows
>>> because I already know everything there is know about them.
I''m more
>>> interested in using the Mac and how it "compares" to the
PC.
>>>
>>>  P.S. If you play lots of games, I would still keep a PC around,
but
>>> besides
>>> that, I dont see any other reason why you would need one. honestly.
>>>  P.S.S. This story is completely true and I''ve been a PC
user ALL my
>>> life.
>>> I''ve always disliked the Mac and never really understood
it or felt
>>> comfertable with it, but today I left the store a changed man!
>>
>> The unix terminal is cool.  Quicksilver is cool.  If you have a
>> laptop, instant on after a suspend is cool.  The animation of
>> switching logged in users is cool.  Newsfire is cool.
>>
>> (google for app names if you''re unfamiliar with them)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails mailing list
>> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

mac''s aren''t case sensitive? that''s not very freebsd
of it.

-PJ

On Apr 3, 2005 11:20 PM, Tom Donovan
<list-rails-jG4xwPahMbbXRl1jA4ceMJyrNiDsoR7y@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> AFAIK, case-sensitivity is an option only available with Mac OS X
> Server 10.3. Here is a brief description:
> 
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107863
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Apr 3, 2005, at 11:02 PM, Charles Comstock wrote:
> 
> > Anyone know if there is a way to make the mac terminal or filesystem
> > properly case sensitive. A friend of mine who is all about macs but
> > still was quite perturbed when he was bitten by this. He had an alias
> > for rm to rm -i, but note that it was an alias for rm. However he
> > mistyped once while deleting a directory * and accidently type Rm or
> > RM I can''t remember which. Anyhow apparently while whatever
the
> > default shell in os x is case sensitive, so the alias didn''t
grab the
> > Rm or RM cause it didn''t match, but the underlying file
system isn''t
> > case insensitive. And so the shell happily fired up the real rm
> > command without any -i option and proceeded to blow away the
> > directory. Luckily it wasn''t anything too critical, but
nonetheless
> > he was less then pleased. Certainly not a deal breaker for him, he
> > still likes the platform, but it rattled him a bit. Anyone know if
> > this is fixable, and if it isn''t are there any other weird
> > inconsistancies between what those of us who are used to a commandline
> > might run into using a commandline on osx?
> > Charles Comstock
> >
> > On Apr 3, 2005 10:45 PM, Joe Van Dyk
<joevandyk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >> On Apr 3, 2005 8:31 PM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >>> Thanks for listening and please please please don''t
make this into
> >>> a PC vs.
> >>> Mac war. Just respond with something positive or anything else
about
> >>> the Mac
> >>> that you think is cool that I wasn''t able to
experince during my
> >>> visit. I
> >>> really don''t need to hear about the "cool"
features of the PC and
> >>> Windows
> >>> because I already know everything there is know about them.
I''m more
> >>> interested in using the Mac and how it "compares" to
the PC.
> >>>
> >>> P.S. If you play lots of games, I would still keep a PC
around, but
> >>> besides
> >>> that, I dont see any other reason why you would need one.
honestly.
> >>> P.S.S. This story is completely true and I''ve been a
PC user ALL my
> >>> life.
> >>> I''ve always disliked the Mac and never really
understood it or felt
> >>> comfertable with it, but today I left the store a changed man!
> >>
> >> The unix terminal is cool. Quicksilver is cool. If you have a
> >> laptop, instant on after a suspend is cool. The animation of
> >> switching logged in users is cool. Newsfire is cool.
> >>
> >> (google for app names if you''re unfamiliar with them)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rails mailing list
> >> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> >> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

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On Apr 3, 2005, at 9:54 PM, PJ Hyett wrote:
> mac''s aren''t case sensitive? that''s not very
freebsd of it.
No, but it is very humane of it. Should "terminal.app" and 
"Terminal.app" be two separate programs? You''ll confuse a lot
of people
that way, even if those people did know what they were doing.


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On Apr 4, 2005 4:54 PM, PJ Hyett
<pjhyett-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> mac''s aren''t case sensitive? that''s not very
freebsd of it.
HSF+ (the default FS) is case-insensitive but case-preserving. It
keeps capitalisation in your filenames, but doesn''t respect it in
searching.

UFS (the FreeBSD one) is available, and is case sensitive, but isn''t
suitable for many MacOS applications as it doesn''t support a resource
fork.

OS X 10.3 Server has an option for case-sensitive HFS+, but the client
version doesn''t.
-- 
Phillip Hutchings
http://www.sitharus.com/
sitharus-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org /
sitharus-QrR4M9swfipWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org

I prefer LaunchBar, it came before quicksilver (so I am told) and it
gets in the way less (its a little bar)

I''ve been an exclusive PC user unti November… Though I''ve
yearned for a mac

I now have a nice iBook… my dual monitor PC rig sits unused in the
corner of my apartment on a desk that gathers junkmail in favour of a
12" screen… well… in favour of OS X.

On Apr 3, 2005 8:45 PM, Joe Van Dyk
<joevandyk-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> On Apr 3, 2005 8:31 PM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> <snip>
> >  Thanks for listening and please please please don''t make
this into a PC vs.
> > Mac war. Just respond with something positive or anything else about
the Mac
> > that you think is cool that I wasn''t able to experince during
my visit. I
> > really don''t need to hear about the "cool" features
of the PC and Windows
> > because I already know everything there is know about them.
I''m more
> > interested in using the Mac and how it "compares" to the PC.
> >
> >  P.S. If you play lots of games, I would still keep a PC around, but
besides
> > that, I dont see any other reason why you would need one. honestly.
> >  P.S.S. This story is completely true and I''ve been a PC user
ALL my life.
> > I''ve always disliked the Mac and never really understood it
or felt
> > comfertable with it, but today I left the store a changed man!
> 
> The unix terminal is cool.  Quicksilver is cool.  If you have a
> laptop, instant on after a suspend is cool.  The animation of
> switching logged in users is cool.  Newsfire is cool.
> 
> (google for app names if you''re unfamiliar with them)
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

Ramin:
Very interesting to read about your experience, although I have to say
I''m a bit surprised you were able to appreciate the OS X experience so
quickly. My experience is that it takes some "sinking in" before you
can really appreciate how things work on the Mac, simply because OS X
is so different from the Windows-approach that a Windows user is so
accustomed to. For instance, Windows users tend to think that
such-and-such features are "missing" or "worse" in OS X,
when those
features just don''t have a place in OS X at all, because of the
different approach.

All I can say is that it only gets better, much better. Do get a Mac,
you won''t regret it.

Regards,
Tomas

Great feedback everyone, thanks!

One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this thing 
mainly for doing web development and design. Which means I''ll be using 
Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, MySQL, RoR, etc. 
Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web browsing and 
audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and burning CD''s and
maybe
DVD''s.

The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which was about 
$1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked pretty cool too, but 
I''m not sure if I can justify the price tag. Maybe if I was more
mobile, but
I don''t see myself traveling with my computer too often.

If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display too. if I
get the
imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or powerbook, then i''ll
be
spending alot more money. decisions.. decisions..


On Apr 4, 2005 4:03 AM, Tomas Jogin
<tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> Ramin:
> Very interesting to read about your experience, although I have to say
> I''m a bit surprised you were able to appreciate the OS X
experience so
> quickly. My experience is that it takes some "sinking in" before
you
> can really appreciate how things work on the Mac, simply because OS X
> is so different from the Windows-approach that a Windows user is so
> accustomed to. For instance, Windows users tend to think that
> such-and-such features are "missing" or "worse" in OS
X, when those
> features just don''t have a place in OS X at all, because of the
> different approach.
> 
> All I can say is that it only gets better, much better. Do get a Mac,
> you won''t regret it.
> 
> Regards,
> Tomas
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 


-- 
- Ramin
http://www.getintothis.com/blog


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According to Phillip Hutchings:
> OS X 10.3 Server has an option for case-sensitive HFS+, but the client
> version doesn''t.
Ahem, yes and no.  Officially and accessible from the install program, no.
Available and working, yes. Both / and /Users on my new 15" laptop are HFSX
and everything works.  I had to connect the new machine via target mode
on the old one and partition/format from the old.

It is somewhat tricky but it can be done, check macosxhints.com for details.
-- 
Ollivier ROBERT -=- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! -=-
roberto-0kjVc+YyuDZX+h8frlqCcVAUjnlXr6A1@public.gmane.org
Darwin snuadh.freenix.org Kernel Version 7.8.0: Wed Dec 22 14:26:17 PST 2004

Hi Ramin,

On 4.4.2005, at 16:32, Ramin wrote:
> Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>
>  One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this  
> thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
> using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, MySQL,  
> RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web  
> browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and  
> burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
>
>  The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which was
> about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked pretty  
> cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price tag. Maybe
if I
> was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with my computer
too
> often.
PowerBooks aren''t that much more expensive than 20" iMac. I would
suggest getting one but it''s only based on my needs. If you really wont
need your computer on the road, you should probably go with the G5.  
Anyway, you''re going to need at least 1GB of memory based on the app  
arsenal you''re using. Keep in mind that all Macs use standard memories
nowadays and that Apple literally steals your money if you buy the  
updates from them. E.g. memory update for iMac from 256MB to  
single-chip 1GB is $325 in Applestore. You can get a single  
high-quality 1GB module for well under $150 from the ''net.
>
>  If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display too.
if I
> get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or powerbook,  
> then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions.. decisions..
You will get along with any of these, as long as you get enough RAM.  
When I got my PowerBook 2,5 years ago, I wasn''t sure how much  
portability I would need. Now I drag my PB everywhere. Cause and  
effect? Who knows, but I couldn''t think of living with only a desktop  
Mac anymore. (That said, I just got a new Mac Mini last week, to be  
used as a PVR and an emergency replacement machine.)

//jarkko
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 4:03 AM, Tomas Jogin
<tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Ramin:
> Very interesting to read about your experience, although I have to say
> I''m a bit surprised you were able to appreciate the OS X
experience so
> quickly. My experience is that it takes some "sinking in" before
you
> can really appreciate how things work on the Mac, simply because OS X
> is so different from the Windows-approach that a Windows user is so
> accustomed to. For instance, Windows users tend to think that
> such-and-such features are "missing" or "worse" in OS
X, when those
> features just don''t have a place in OS X at all, because of the
> different approach.
>
> All I can say is that it only gets better, much better. Do get a Mac,
> you won''t regret it.
>
> Regards,
> Tomas
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>
> --  
> - Ramin
> http://www.getintothis.com/ 
> blog_______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
--
Jarkko Laine
http://jlaine.net
http://odesign.fi



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Just a word of warning. According to my experience Flash sucks on OS X. 
I mean, like, sucks _big time_.
It is obviously Macromedia''s fault (they have lots of quality issues 
lately), but it hurts nevertheless.

Try how Flash runs on every one of these machines and choose the one 
where it runs acceptably fast.

Judging from your requiremenets a mini with a good big monitor (maybe 
even CRT), an Apple keyboard and a tablet will be OK for you (and much 
cheaper than an iMac).

And yes, lots of RAM. Lots of it.

On 4-apr-05, at 15:32, Ramin wrote:
> Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>
>  One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this 
> thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
> using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, MySQL, 
> RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web 
> browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and 
> burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
>
>  The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which was 
> about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked pretty 
> cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price tag. Maybe
if I
> was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with my computer
too
> often.
>
>  If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display too.
if I
> get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or powerbook, 
> then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions.. decisions..
>
--
Julian "Julik" Tarkhanov

I''ve found Flash and Dreamweaver are both very slow on OS X, but
I''m
using an ancient G3 233mhz with 10.2 Jaguar. I''m sure any of
Apple''s
current models would handle the Macromedia suite just fine, but YMMV.
Try it out in the Apple store if you can.

On the other hand, I can say that even on my ancient system,
everything else runs just fine. I often have Office, half a dozen
terminals, Firefox, Safari, Project Builder (XCode in 10.3) open at
once with okay performance. Your new Mac will fly :-)

As for which model to choose - it''s really a matter of taste. However,
I''d stick to a desktop unless you really need a notebook.
Apple''s
notebooks are great, but there''s just so much more that can go wrong
with a notebook and cost you more down the track. If you don''t need
it, stick to a desktop.

In regards to the Mini vs iMac - the Mini isn''t really that much
cheaper once you beef up the RAM and add a few extras, not to mention
a keyboard, mouse and monitor. Furthermore, the monitors on the iMacs
are very good quality and thus quite good value.

The graphics card in the iMac is also much better, and will support
CoreGraphics in Tiger when it is released (afaik the Mini''s gfx card
won''t). CoreGraphics is supposed to provide an API which will make it
easy to render everything on the GPU, leading to a considerable
performance boost. It''ll probably be quite big, and you don''t
want to
miss out on it. Tiger will still work fine on the Mini - you just
won''t get the extra performance boost.

Anyway, when it comes down to it, it just depends on what you want to
spend. I''d say the iMac is better value for what you pay, but the Mini
is nice too.

Ben

On Apr 5, 2005 1:20 AM, Julian ''Julik'' Tarkhanov
<listbox-RY+snkucC20@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Just a word of warning. According to my experience Flash sucks on OS X.
> I mean, like, sucks _big time_.
> It is obviously Macromedia''s fault (they have lots of quality
issues
> lately), but it hurts nevertheless.
> 
> Try how Flash runs on every one of these machines and choose the one
> where it runs acceptably fast.
> 
> Judging from your requiremenets a mini with a good big monitor (maybe
> even CRT), an Apple keyboard and a tablet will be OK for you (and much
> cheaper than an iMac).
> 
> And yes, lots of RAM. Lots of it.

If you want a notebook, get a PowerBook or an iBook. If not, get an
iMac. iMacs are a bit more powerful, but less portable. ;-) I would
only recommend a Mac Mini if you''re cheap, unsure of the Mac, or only
planning to use the Mac as a secondary computer.

As always, more money buys you more performance, but any model is
capable of handling the stuff you need to do.

One more thing: when in doubt, get more RAM; Mac Os X actually _uses_
the RAM you put in the computer, so more RAM always makes the system
faster (unlike on Windows where you notice less and less difference
over 500MB or so). Also, never buy RAM from Apple, but always buy RAM
from a Mac oriented store. I recommend getting at least 1GB of RAM.

Tomas

On Apr 4, 2005 3:32 PM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>  
>  One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this
thing
> mainly for doing web development and design. Which means I''ll be
using
> Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, MySQL, RoR, etc.
> Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web browsing and
> audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and burning CD''s
and maybe
> DVD''s.

Actually even the ibooks are getting very powerfull on the cheap. You  
can get the 12" $999 ibook and it will do everything you are talking  
about and do it well. Or step up to a 12 powerbook for about $600 more  
with dvd burner. However the mini''s (I have 3) are excellent machines.
If you get the faster one and put 1GB ram in it (buy the ram NOT from  
apple they are over priced). The you could use the keyboard, mouse and  
monitor form the windows pc that you have already and you will have a  
nice mac for under $750. I guess it all depends on how much you want to  
spend. The imacs are really nice IMHO but you can get the same power  
for less in other models. Also if you are not opposed to the idea, you  
can get great deals on ebay for used macs right now.

Good Luck and enjoy OSX it truly is a great environment to work in.
-Ezra
On Apr 4, 2005, at 6:32 AM, Ramin wrote:
> Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>
>  One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this  
> thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
> using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, MySQL,  
> RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web  
> browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and  
> burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
>
>  The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which was
> about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked pretty  
> cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price tag. Maybe
if I
> was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with my computer
too
> often.
>
>  If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display too.
if I
> get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or powerbook,  
> then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions.. decisions..
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 4:03 AM, Tomas Jogin
<tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Ramin:
> Very interesting to read about your experience, although I have to say
> I''m a bit surprised you were able to appreciate the OS X
experience so
> quickly. My experience is that it takes some "sinking in" before
you
> can really appreciate how things work on the Mac, simply because OS X
> is so different from the Windows-approach that a Windows user is so
> accustomed to. For instance, Windows users tend to think that
> such-and-such features are "missing" or "worse" in OS
X, when those
> features just don''t have a place in OS X at all, because of the
> different approach.
>
> All I can say is that it only gets better, much better. Do get a Mac,
> you won''t regret it.
>
> Regards,
> Tomas
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>
> --  
> - Ramin
> http://www.getintothis.com/ 
> blog_______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
-Ezra Zygmuntowicz
Yakima Herald-Republic
WebMaster
509-577-7732
ezra-gdxLOakOTQ9oetBuM9ipNAC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org


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Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this, but thought you
should know
that it is rumored
that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released ''soon''
(mid-april at the
NAB show) and that there
are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB across the 
board for all 256MB 
machines as the default.

These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a purchase 
soon, you might want
to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple 
products. In general,
buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next best 
thing, so just an FYI if
you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.

Ramin wrote:
> Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>
> One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this 
> thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
> using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, MySQL, 
> RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web 
> browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and 
> burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
>
> The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which was 
> about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked pretty 
> cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price tag. Maybe
if I
> was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with my computer
too
> often.
>
> If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display too. if
I
> get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or powerbook, 
> then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions.. decisions..
>

Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a little then.
I''m
in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my PC.

On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> 
> I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this, but thought
you should know
> that it is rumored
> that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released ''soon''
(mid-april at the
> NAB show) and that there
> are rumors of imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB across the
> board for all 256MB
> machines as the default.
> 
> These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a purchase
> soon, you might want
> to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple
> products. In general,
> buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next best
> thing, so just an FYI if
> you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
> 
> Ramin wrote:
> 
> > Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> >
> > One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this
> > thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
> > using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, MySQL,
> > RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web
> > browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and
> > burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> >
> > The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which
was
> > about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked pretty
> > cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price tag.
Maybe if I
> > was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with my
computer too
> > often.
> >
> > If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display
too. if I
> > get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or powerbook,
> > then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
> >
> 
> 

-- 
- Ramin
http://www.getintothis.com/blog


_______________________________________________
Rails mailing list
Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

I was looking into a Powerbook just before the Panther release and 
learned that the Apple stores tend to offer discounts at their release 
events.  I went and stood in line for "Night of the Panther" and, sure
enough, got 10% off a 12" Powerbook.  Pretty fun hanging out with all 
the Mac people in line.  Obviously there''s no guarantee it will happen 
at the Tiger release, but keep your eyes on the rumor sites if you''re 
planning to buy soon...

On Apr 4, 2005, at 9:26 AM, Todd Yocum wrote:
>
> I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this, but thought
you should
> know that it is rumored
> that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released ''soon''
(mid-april at
> the NAB show) and that there
> are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB across 
> the board for all 256MB machines as the default.
>
> These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a purchase 
> soon, you might want
> to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple 
> products. In general,
> buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next best 
> thing, so just an FYI if
> you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
>
> Ramin wrote:
>
>> Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>>
>> One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use this 
>> thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll
>> be using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers, 
>> MySQL, RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular 
>> web browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and 
>> burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
>>
>> The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which
was
>> about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked pretty 
>> cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price tag.
Maybe if I
>> was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with my
computer
>> too often.
>>
>> If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display
too. if I
>> get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or powerbook, 
>> then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions.. decisions..
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>

I think you should go all out when you get a Mac.  They get updated
every six months, but they never get obsolete.  Windows machines, for
whatever reason, start to feel slow after a year or more.  All the
macs at my home and office have been flying from day 1, and show no
signs of slowing down.

Also, remember that you need to buy more RAM, but not to get it from
Apple.  They overcharge so much, it''s ridiculous.  Just find what kind
of RAM you need and order that separately.

If you use your mac almost exclusively for a few months and then go
back to a PC, you''ll just flip.  I hadn''t touched a windows
box in
about 6 months until yesterday, when I spent 5 hours getting a stupid
wireless NIC to work.




On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a little
then. I''m
> in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my PC.
> 
> 
> On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 
> > I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this, but
thought you should know
> > that it is rumored
> > that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april at the
> > NAB show) and that there
> > are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB across
the
> > board for all 256MB
> > machines as the default.
> > 
> > These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a purchase
> > soon, you might want
> > to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple
> > products. In general,
> > buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next best
> > thing, so just an FYI if
> > you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
> > 
> > Ramin wrote:
> > 
> > > Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> > >
> > > One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use
this
> > > thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
> > > using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers,
MySQL,
> > > RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web
> > > browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and
> > > burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> > >
> > > The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac,
which was
> > > about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked
pretty
> > > cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price
tag. Maybe if I
> > > was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with
my computer too
> > > often.
> > >
> > > If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a
display too. if I
> > > get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or
powerbook,
> > > then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
> > >
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Ramin
> http://www.getintothis.com/blog 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 
> 
>

Ok, I went on ebay and some dude is selling a pretty nice powerbook for 
$1400 with the following specs:

*SPECS:*

*Processor and memory*
*1.67GHz* PowerPC processor; 1MB level 3 cache
*1GB* of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM

*Storage*
Slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
*80GB* Hard drive 5400 rpm

*Communications*
Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking
Built-in Bluetooth 1.1
Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet
Built-in 56K V.92 modem

*Expansion*
One FireWire 800 port at up to 800 Mbps; one FireWire 400 port at up to 400 
Mbps
Two 480 Mbps USB 2.0 ports
PC Card/CardBus slot for Type I or Type II card

*Display*
17-inch (diagonal) TFT display

*Video and graphics support*
128MB ATI Radeon
 

according to his email to me,
 
"The final price is $1,400 US including shipping and insurance.
I''ll
ship the package from Europe. The computer will be shipped in its
original packaging via UPS Air Service or FedEx. It will take 3 days
tops until you will have it at your door. I purchased these laptops a
few days ago at a big stock liquidation from a local supplier for
electronics and I decided to sell them quick and reinvest the money.
The computers are US models with US specs and come with all the
original manuals and software discs (OS X version 10.3 full).
 
For payment I would like to use an escrow service such as eBay Square
Trade, so we''ll be both protected. I prefer this service because is
very fast and safe for both. I am also affiliated with eBay Square
Trade and I have a purchase protection account for 10,000$."
 

Should I trust him? He is located in Romania. Thats pretty cheap for what 
he''s offering. Hmmmm.. too good to be true?
 

 

On Apr 4, 2005 6:03 PM, Pat Maddox
<pergesu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> I think you should go all out when you get a Mac. They get updated
> every six months, but they never get obsolete. Windows machines, for
> whatever reason, start to feel slow after a year or more. All the
> macs at my home and office have been flying from day 1, and show no
> signs of slowing down.
> 
> Also, remember that you need to buy more RAM, but not to get it from
> Apple. They overcharge so much, it''s ridiculous. Just find what
kind
> of RAM you need and order that separately.
> 
> If you use your mac almost exclusively for a few months and then go
> back to a PC, you''ll just flip. I hadn''t touched a
windows box in
> about 6 months until yesterday, when I spent 5 hours getting a stupid
> wireless NIC to work.
> 
> 
> On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a
little then.
> I''m
> > in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my PC.
> >
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this,
but thought you should
> know
> > > that it is rumored
> > > that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april at
> the
> > > NAB show) and that there
> > > are rumors of imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB
across the
> > > board for all 256MB
> > > machines as the default.
> > >
> > > These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a
purchase
> > > soon, you might want
> > > to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple
> > > products. In general,
> > > buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next
best
> > > thing, so just an FYI if
> > > you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
> > >
> > > Ramin wrote:
> > >
> > > > Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> > > >
> > > > One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to
use
> this
> > > > thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which
means I''ll
> be
> > > > using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App
servers,
> MySQL,
> > > > RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular
web
> > > > browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.)
Oh and
> > > > burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> > > >
> > > > The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19"
iMac, which was
> > > > about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops
looked pretty
> > > > cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the
price tag. Maybe if
> I
> > > > was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling
with my computer
> too
> > > > often.
> > > >
> > > > If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a
display too. if I
> > > > get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or
powerbook,
> > > > then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Ramin
> > http://www.getintothis.com/blog
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 


-- 
- Ramin
http://www.getintothis.com/blog


_______________________________________________
Rails mailing list
Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

I''m on my second Powerbook and Macos is wonderful. My only complaint 
(and I''ve told Apple this ;) is that Powerbooks are not ergonomic. They
saccrificed ergonomics for style, unfortunately. Metallic, flat 
palmrests with square edges? Jeez. For comfort, I''ll take a Thinkpad 
anyday. For OS, Powerbook.

Jamie

Pat Maddox wrote:
>I think you should go all out when you get a Mac.  They get updated
>every six months, but they never get obsolete.  Windows machines, for
>whatever reason, start to feel slow after a year or more.  All the
>macs at my home and office have been flying from day 1, and show no
>signs of slowing down.
>
>Also, remember that you need to buy more RAM, but not to get it from
>Apple.  They overcharge so much, it''s ridiculous.  Just find what
kind
>of RAM you need and order that separately.
>
>If you use your mac almost exclusively for a few months and then go
>back to a PC, you''ll just flip.  I hadn''t touched a
windows box in
>about 6 months until yesterday, when I spent 5 hours getting a stupid
>wireless NIC to work.
>
>
>
>
>On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>  
>
>>Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a
little then. I''m
>>in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my PC.
>>
>>
>>On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this, but
thought you should know
>>>that it is rumored
>>>that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april at the
>>>NAB show) and that there
>>>are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB across
the
>>>board for all 256MB
>>>machines as the default.
>>>
>>>These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a
purchase
>>>soon, you might want
>>>to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple
>>>products. In general,
>>>buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next best
>>>thing, so just an FYI if
>>>you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
>>>
>>>Ramin wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>>>>
>>>>One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use
this
>>>>thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
>>>>using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers,
MySQL,
>>>>RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web
>>>>browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh
and
>>>>burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
>>>>
>>>>The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac,
which was
>>>>about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked
pretty
>>>>cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price
tag. Maybe if I
>>>>was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with
my computer too
>>>>often.
>>>>
>>>>If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a
display too. if I
>>>>get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or
powerbook,
>>>>then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>-- 
>>- Ramin
>>http://www.getintothis.com/blog 
>>_______________________________________________
>>Rails mailing list
>>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Rails mailing list
>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>  
>

What size PB do you have?  I''ve got a 17" and it''s
incredibly comfortable.



On Apr 4, 2005 3:13 PM, Jamie <jamie-fswG1Ka7Iew@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> I''m on my second Powerbook and Macos is wonderful. My only
complaint
> (and I''ve told Apple this ;) is that Powerbooks are not ergonomic.
They
> saccrificed ergonomics for style, unfortunately. Metallic, flat
> palmrests with square edges? Jeez. For comfort, I''ll take a
Thinkpad
> anyday. For OS, Powerbook.
> 
> Jamie
> 
> Pat Maddox wrote:
> 
> >I think you should go all out when you get a Mac.  They get updated
> >every six months, but they never get obsolete.  Windows machines, for
> >whatever reason, start to feel slow after a year or more.  All the
> >macs at my home and office have been flying from day 1, and show no
> >signs of slowing down.
> >
> >Also, remember that you need to buy more RAM, but not to get it from
> >Apple.  They overcharge so much, it''s ridiculous.  Just find
what kind
> >of RAM you need and order that separately.
> >
> >If you use your mac almost exclusively for a few months and then go
> >back to a PC, you''ll just flip.  I hadn''t touched a
windows box in
> >about 6 months until yesterday, when I spent 5 hours getting a stupid
> >wireless NIC to work.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a
little then. I''m
> >>in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my
PC.
> >>
> >>
> >>On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this,
but thought you should know
> >>>that it is rumored
> >>>that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april at the
> >>>NAB show) and that there
> >>>are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB
across the
> >>>board for all 256MB
> >>>machines as the default.
> >>>
> >>>These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a
purchase
> >>>soon, you might want
> >>>to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new
Apple
> >>>products. In general,
> >>>buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next
best
> >>>thing, so just an FYI if
> >>>you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
> >>>
> >>>Ramin wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> >>>>
> >>>>One more question: Which model should I look into? I want
to use this
> >>>>thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which
means I''ll be
> >>>>using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App
servers, MySQL,
> >>>>RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and
regular web
> >>>>browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.)
Oh and
> >>>>burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> >>>>
> >>>>The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19"
iMac, which was
> >>>>about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops
looked pretty
> >>>>cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the
price tag. Maybe if I
> >>>>was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling
with my computer too
> >>>>often.
> >>>>
> >>>>If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a
display too. if I
> >>>>get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or
powerbook,
> >>>>then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>--
> >>- Ramin
> >>http://www.getintothis.com/blog
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Rails mailing list
> >>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> >>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Rails mailing list
> >Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> >http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> >
> >
>

I have to admit, David''s post and others like this have got me 
interested enough too. I haven''t used a MAC since OS 7, which I 
supported in a campus computer lab <shudder>.

What I''m thinking is I can get one of those cute little minis and plug 
it into a USB KVM with my current desktop, so I still have access to 
games and any software I can''t or don''t want to replace on the
Mac. No
one has really talked about the cost of replacing commercial software 
but it would be pretty expensive.

Also I''m curious has anyone got pgAdmin to work on a Mac reasonably 
well? I found a smattering of bulletin board posts about it but they all 
described unicode issues that were as yet unresolved. Certainly there is 
no binary for it...

Ezra Zygmuntowicz wrote:
> Actually even the ibooks are getting very powerfull on the cheap. You 
> can get the 12" $999 ibook and it will do everything you are talking 
> about and do it well. Or step up to a 12 powerbook for about $600 more 
> with dvd burner. However the mini''s (I have 3) are excellent
machines.
> If you get the faster one and put 1GB ram in it (buy the ram NOT from 
> apple they are over priced). The you could use the keyboard, mouse and 
> monitor form the windows pc that you have already and you will have a 
> nice mac for under $750. I guess it all depends on how much you want 
> to spend. The imacs are really nice IMHO but you can get the same 
> power for less in other models. Also if you are not opposed to the 
> idea, you can get great deals on ebay for used macs right now.
>
> Good Luck and enjoy OSX it truly is a great environment to work in.
> -Ezra
> On Apr 4, 2005, at 6:32 AM, Ramin wrote:
>
>     Great feedback everyone, thanks!
>
>     One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use
>     this thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which
>     means I''ll be using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text
editor,
>     App servers, MySQL, RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office
>     programs and regular web browsing and audio/video viewing (but not
>     really editing.) Oh and burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
>
>     The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac, which
>     was about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked
>     pretty cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price
tag.
>     Maybe if I was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling
with
>     my computer too often.
>
>     If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a display
too. if
>     I get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or
>     powerbook, then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
>     decisions..
>
>
>     On Apr 4, 2005 4:03 AM, 
>
>     *Tomas Jogin* <tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>     Ramin:
>     Very interesting to read about your experience, although I have to
>     say
>     I''m a bit surprised you were able to appreciate the OS X
>     experience so
>     quickly. My experience is that it takes some "sinking in"
before you
>     can really appreciate how things work on the Mac, simply because OS X
>     is so different from the Windows-approach that a Windows user is so
>     accustomed to. For instance, Windows users tend to think that
>     such-and-such features are "missing" or "worse" in
OS X, when those
>     features just don''t have a place in OS X at all, because of
the
>     different approach.
>
>     All I can say is that it only gets better, much better. Do get a Mac,
>     you won''t regret it.
>
>     Regards,
>     Tomas
>     _______________________________________________
>     Rails mailing list
>     Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>     http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     - Ramin
>    
http://www.getintothis.com/blog_______________________________________________
>
>     Rails mailing list
>     Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>     http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
> -Ezra Zygmuntowicz
> Yakima Herald-Republic
> WebMaster
> 509-577-7732
> ezra-gdxLOakOTQ9oetBuM9ipNAC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rails mailing list
>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>  
>

I would be wary of deals on ebay that sound too good. 

I recently bought my 12" PowerBook 1.5 superdrive from Amazon with a
$150 rebate.  I think it''s a really good deal as you don''t pay
tax or
shipping.  If you have a student discount or ADC membership you might
be able to get better pricing with Apple.

Using with my Dell 24" LCD - 2405fpw is great...About $860.

BTW, I''m also a switcher and I''m loving the experience.  My
favorite
app so far is QuickSilver.
http://quicksilver.blacktree.com/

On Apr 4, 2005 3:23 PM, Pat Maddox
<pergesu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> What size PB do you have?  I''ve got a 17" and it''s
incredibly comfortable.
> 
> 
> On Apr 4, 2005 3:13 PM, Jamie <jamie-fswG1Ka7Iew@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> > I''m on my second Powerbook and Macos is wonderful. My only
complaint
> > (and I''ve told Apple this ;) is that Powerbooks are not
ergonomic. They
> > saccrificed ergonomics for style, unfortunately. Metallic, flat
> > palmrests with square edges? Jeez. For comfort, I''ll take a
Thinkpad
> > anyday. For OS, Powerbook.
> >
> > Jamie
> >
> > Pat Maddox wrote:
> >
> > >I think you should go all out when you get a Mac.  They get
updated
> > >every six months, but they never get obsolete.  Windows machines,
for
> > >whatever reason, start to feel slow after a year or more.  All the
> > >macs at my home and office have been flying from day 1, and show
no
> > >signs of slowing down.
> > >
> > >Also, remember that you need to buy more RAM, but not to get it
from
> > >Apple.  They overcharge so much, it''s ridiculous.  Just
find what kind
> > >of RAM you need and order that separately.
> > >
> > >If you use your mac almost exclusively for a few months and then
go
> > >back to a PC, you''ll just flip.  I hadn''t
touched a windows box in
> > >about 6 months until yesterday, when I spent 5 hours getting a
stupid
> > >wireless NIC to work.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely
wait a little then. I''m
> > >>in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading
my PC.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention
this, but thought you should know
> > >>>that it is rumored
> > >>>that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april at the
> > >>>NAB show) and that there
> > >>>are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to
512MB across the
> > >>>board for all 256MB
> > >>>machines as the default.
> > >>>
> > >>>These are all rumors, of course, but if you are
considering a purchase
> > >>>soon, you might want
> > >>>to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new
Apple
> > >>>products. In general,
> > >>>buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the
next best
> > >>>thing, so just an FYI if
> > >>>you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing
schedule.
> > >>>
> > >>>Ramin wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> > >>>>
> > >>>>One more question: Which model should I look into? I
want to use this
> > >>>>thing mainly for doing web development and design.
Which means I''ll be
> > >>>>using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App
servers, MySQL,
> > >>>>RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and
regular web
> > >>>>browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really
editing.) Oh and
> > >>>>burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the
19" iMac, which was
> > >>>>about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops
looked pretty
> > >>>>cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify
the price tag. Maybe if I
> > >>>>was more mobile, but I don''t see myself
traveling with my computer too
> > >>>>often.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably
buy a display too. if I
> > >>>>get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook
or powerbook,
> > >>>>then i''ll be spending alot more money.
decisions.. decisions..
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>- Ramin
> > >>http://www.getintothis.com/blog
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>Rails mailing list
> > >>Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> > >>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Rails mailing list
> > >Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> > >http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

I strongly recommend a laptop over a desktop solution.

If you ever work with or for anyone but yourself a laptop is an
incredible asset. Being able to retain 100% productivity is
unbelievably awesome.

You mentioned wanting to use it for media enjoyment? I used to have my
PC hooked up to my tv (i guess that brings it to three displays…) so
that when I had friends over we could watch…backups of…my… movies etc.

Now that I have my iBook (and the requisite adaptors: 30 bucks
Canadian) I can do the same thing anywhere. I don''t have to burn a dvd
and hope it''ll work in my friend''s player - I just bring my
laptop.

iBooks and Powerbooks are incredible platforms. Mobility is a feature
you truly come to appreciate.

I am never buying a desktop system again… an xserve maybe :)

Caleb

On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a little
then. I''m
> in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my PC.
> 
> 
> On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 
> > I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this, but
thought you should know
> > that it is rumored
> > that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april at the
> > NAB show) and that there
> > are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB across
the
> > board for all 256MB
> > machines as the default.
> > 
> > These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a purchase
> > soon, you might want
> > to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple
> > products. In general,
> > buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next best
> > thing, so just an FYI if
> > you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
> > 
> > Ramin wrote:
> > 
> > > Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> > >
> > > One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to use
this
> > > thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which means
I''ll be
> > > using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App servers,
MySQL,
> > > RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular web
> > > browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.) Oh and
> > > burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> > >
> > > The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19" iMac,
which was
> > > about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops looked
pretty
> > > cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the price
tag. Maybe if I
> > > was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling with
my computer too
> > > often.
> > >
> > > If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a
display too. if I
> > > get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or
powerbook,
> > > then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
> > >
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Ramin
> http://www.getintothis.com/blog 
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 
> 
>

This looks like a scam to me. No one is going to sell a 17" powerbook  
that is that new for $1400 dollars. You will get ripped off if you deal  
with this guy! I''m not even sure if the power books come with a 1.67Ghz
proc yet they will soon or might have recently but anyone selling this  
nice of a powerbook fo rhtis cheap is up to no good. Those things are  
like $2800 new and that one if the specs are correct has to be only a  
month or two old.
Good Luck but beware -
-Ezra
On Apr 4, 2005, at 3:12 PM, Ramin wrote:
> Ok, I went on ebay and some dude is selling a pretty nice powerbook  
> for $1400 with the following specs:
>
>
>
> SPECS:
>
> Processor and memory
> 1.67GHz PowerPC processor; 1MB level 3 cache
> 1GB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM
>
> Storage
>  Slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
> 80GB Hard drive 5400 rpm
>
> Communications
>  Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking
>  Built-in Bluetooth 1.1
>  Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet
>  Built-in 56K V.92 modem
>
> Expansion
>  One FireWire 800 port at up to 800 Mbps; one FireWire 400 port at up  
> to 400 Mbps
>  Two 480 Mbps USB 2.0 ports
>  PC Card/CardBus slot for Type I or Type II card
>
> Display
>  17-inch (diagonal) TFT display
>
> Video and graphics support
>  128MB ATI Radeon
>
>
>
>  according to his email to me,
>
>
> "The final price is $1,400 US including shipping and insurance.
I''ll
>  ship the package from Europe. The computer will be shipped in its
>  original packaging via UPS Air Service or FedEx. It will take 3 days
>  tops until you will have it at your door. I purchased these laptops a
>  few days ago at a big stock liquidation from a local supplier for
>  electronics and I decided to sell them quick and reinvest the money.
>  The computers are US models with US specs and come with all the
>  original manuals and software discs (OS X version 10.3 full).
>
>
> For payment I would like to use an escrow service such as eBay Square
>  Trade, so we''ll be both protected. I prefer this service because
is
>  very fast and safe for both. I am also affiliated with eBay Square
>  Trade and I have a purchase protection account for 10,000$."
>
>
>
>  Should I trust him? He is located in Romania. Thats pretty cheap for  
> what he''s offering. Hmmmm.. too good to be true?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 6:03 PM, Pat Maddox
<pergesu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I think you should go all out when you get a Mac.  They get updated
> every six months, but they never get obsolete.  Windows machines, for
> whatever reason, start to feel slow after a year or more.  All the
> macs at my home and office have been flying from day 1, and show no
> signs of slowing down.
>
> Also, remember that you need to buy more RAM, but not to get it from
> Apple.  They overcharge so much, it''s ridiculous.  Just find what
kind
> of RAM you need and order that separately.
>
> If you use your mac almost exclusively for a few months and then go
> back to a PC, you''ll just flip.  I hadn''t touched a
windows box in
> about 6 months until yesterday, when I spent 5 hours getting a stupid
> wireless NIC to work.
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a
little
> then. I''m
> > in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my PC.
> >
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this,
but thought you
> should know
> > > that it is rumored
> > > that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april
> at the
> > > NAB show) and that there
> > > are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB  
> across the
> > > board for all 256MB
> > > machines as the default.
> > >
> > > These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a  
> purchase
> > > soon, you might want
> > > to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple
> > > products. In general,
> > > buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next
best
> > > thing, so just an FYI if
> > > you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
> > >
> > > Ramin wrote:
> > >
> > > > Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> > > >
> > > > One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to
use
> this
> > > > thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which
means
> I''ll be
> > > > using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App
servers,
> MySQL,
> > > > RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular
web
> > > > browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.)
Oh and
> > > > burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> > > >
> > > > The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19"
iMac, which
> was
> > > > about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops
looked
> pretty
> > > > cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the
price tag. Maybe
> if I
> > > > was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling
with my
> computer too
> > > > often.
> > > >
> > > > If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a
display too.
> if I
> > > > get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or  
> powerbook,
> > > > then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Ramin
> > http://www.getintothis.com/blog
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>
> --  
> - Ramin
> http://www.getintothis.com/ 
> blog_______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
-Ezra Zygmuntowicz
Yakima Herald-Republic
WebMaster
509-577-7732
ezra-gdxLOakOTQ9oetBuM9ipNAC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org


_______________________________________________
Rails mailing list
Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Hey if you really want a mac I have a nice G4 tower in immaculate  
condition I am going to sell. It''s a 800Mhz or 866mhz G4 with 512MB ram
and a 40GB HD with Panther and rails already set up! I''d sell it to you
for $500 + shipping.
-Ezra
On Apr 4, 2005, at 3:12 PM, Ramin wrote:
> Ok, I went on ebay and some dude is selling a pretty nice powerbook  
> for $1400 with the following specs:
>
>
>
> SPECS:
>
> Processor and memory
> 1.67GHz PowerPC processor; 1MB level 3 cache
> 1GB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM
>
> Storage
>  Slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
> 80GB Hard drive 5400 rpm
>
> Communications
>  Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking
>  Built-in Bluetooth 1.1
>  Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet
>  Built-in 56K V.92 modem
>
> Expansion
>  One FireWire 800 port at up to 800 Mbps; one FireWire 400 port at up  
> to 400 Mbps
>  Two 480 Mbps USB 2.0 ports
>  PC Card/CardBus slot for Type I or Type II card
>
> Display
>  17-inch (diagonal) TFT display
>
> Video and graphics support
>  128MB ATI Radeon
>
>
>
>  according to his email to me,
>
>
> "The final price is $1,400 US including shipping and insurance.
I''ll
>  ship the package from Europe. The computer will be shipped in its
>  original packaging via UPS Air Service or FedEx. It will take 3 days
>  tops until you will have it at your door. I purchased these laptops a
>  few days ago at a big stock liquidation from a local supplier for
>  electronics and I decided to sell them quick and reinvest the money.
>  The computers are US models with US specs and come with all the
>  original manuals and software discs (OS X version 10.3 full).
>
>
> For payment I would like to use an escrow service such as eBay Square
>  Trade, so we''ll be both protected. I prefer this service because
is
>  very fast and safe for both. I am also affiliated with eBay Square
>  Trade and I have a purchase protection account for 10,000$."
>
>
>
>  Should I trust him? He is located in Romania. Thats pretty cheap for  
> what he''s offering. Hmmmm.. too good to be true?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 6:03 PM, Pat Maddox
<pergesu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I think you should go all out when you get a Mac.  They get updated
> every six months, but they never get obsolete.  Windows machines, for
> whatever reason, start to feel slow after a year or more.  All the
> macs at my home and office have been flying from day 1, and show no
> signs of slowing down.
>
> Also, remember that you need to buy more RAM, but not to get it from
> Apple.  They overcharge so much, it''s ridiculous.  Just find what
kind
> of RAM you need and order that separately.
>
> If you use your mac almost exclusively for a few months and then go
> back to a PC, you''ll just flip.  I hadn''t touched a
windows box in
> about 6 months until yesterday, when I spent 5 hours getting a stupid
> wireless NIC to work.
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 9:31 AM, Ramin
<i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Thanks.. didn''t know about that. I will definitely wait a
little
> then. I''m
> > in no rush to buy one since I just spent about $700 upgrading my PC.
> >
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2005 12:26 PM, Todd Yocum
<odye-CuC3dwaksX4WcBYTV3HCiA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don''t think I''ve seen anyone mention this,
but thought you
> should know
> > > that it is rumored
> > > that Tiger(OS 10.4) will be announced/released
''soon'' (mid-april
> at the
> > > NAB show) and that there
> > > are rumors of  imac/emac updates, and a memory bump to 512MB  
> across the
> > > board for all 256MB
> > > machines as the default.
> > >
> > > These are all rumors, of course, but if you are considering a  
> purchase
> > > soon, you might want
> > > to wait and see what the NAB show brings in the way of new Apple
> > > products. In general,
> > > buy when you need, of course, or you wait forever for the next
best
> > > thing, so just an FYI if
> > > you''ve got some leeway in your purchasing schedule.
> > >
> > > Ramin wrote:
> > >
> > > > Great feedback everyone, thanks!
> > > >
> > > > One more question: Which model should I look into? I want to
use
> this
> > > > thing mainly for doing web development and design. Which
means
> I''ll be
> > > > using Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Text editor, App
servers,
> MySQL,
> > > > RoR, etc. Beyond that maybe some office programs and regular
web
> > > > browsing and audio/video viewing (but not really editing.)
Oh and
> > > > burning CD''s and maybe DVD''s.
> > > >
> > > > The gentlemen at the Apple store recommended the 19"
iMac, which
> was
> > > > about $1900. I also liked the little Mini. The laptops
looked
> pretty
> > > > cool too, but I''m not sure if I can justify the
price tag. Maybe
> if I
> > > > was more mobile, but I don''t see myself traveling
with my
> computer too
> > > > often.
> > > >
> > > > If I get the mini, then i''d need to probably buy a
display too.
> if I
> > > > get the imac, then its all in one. if i get the ibook or  
> powerbook,
> > > > then i''ll be spending alot more money. decisions..
decisions..
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Ramin
> > http://www.getintothis.com/blog
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>
> --  
> - Ramin
> http://www.getintothis.com/ 
> blog_______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
-Ezra Zygmuntowicz
Yakima Herald-Republic
WebMaster
509-577-7732
ezra-gdxLOakOTQ9oetBuM9ipNAC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org


_______________________________________________
Rails mailing list
Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

> This looks like a scam to me. No one is going to sell a 17" powerbook
> that is that new for $1400 dollars. You will get ripped off if you deal
> with this guy! I''m not even sure if the power books come with a
1.67Ghz
> proc yet they will soon or might have recently but anyone selling this
> nice of a powerbook fo rhtis cheap is up to no good. Those things are
> like $2800 new and that one if the specs are correct has to be only a
> month or two old.
Maybe it fell off a truck :)


-- 
rick
http://techno-weenie.net

On Apr 4, 2005 7:30 PM, Rick Olson
<technoweenie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> > This looks like a scam to me. No one is going to sell a 17"
powerbook
> > that is that new for $1400 dollars. You will get ripped off if you
deal
> > with this guy! I''m not even sure if the power books come with
a 1.67Ghz
> > proc yet they will soon or might have recently but anyone selling this
> > nice of a powerbook fo rhtis cheap is up to no good. Those things are
> > like $2800 new and that one if the specs are correct has to be only a
> > month or two old.
> 
> Maybe it fell off a truck :)
Into a smelter?

On Apr 4, 2005 11:49 AM, Tomas Jogin
<tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> One more thing: when in doubt, get more RAM; Mac Os X actually _uses_
> the RAM you put in the computer, so more RAM always makes the system
> faster (unlike on Windows where you notice less and less difference
> over 500MB or so). 
This is an argument pro Windows, right? ;)

Michael

I looked into that whole ebay square trade that he was talking about. it has 
nothing to do with ebay and apparently alot of people have been scammed 
using that service. I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well, I guess i 
gotta dish out the big bucks. you get what you pay for.

On Apr 4, 2005 7:30 PM, Rick Olson
<technoweenie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> > This looks like a scam to me. No one is going to sell a 17"
powerbook
> > that is that new for $1400 dollars. You will get ripped off if you
deal
> > with this guy! I''m not even sure if the power books come with
a 1.67Ghz
> > proc yet they will soon or might have recently but anyone selling this
> > nice of a powerbook fo rhtis cheap is up to no good. Those things are
> > like $2800 new and that one if the specs are correct has to be only a
> > month or two old.
> 
> Maybe it fell off a truck :)
> 
> --
> rick
> http://techno-weenie.net
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 


-- 
- Ramin
http://www.getintothis.com/blog


_______________________________________________
Rails mailing list
Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

On Tuesday, April 5, 2005, 9:42:14 AM, Michael wrote:
> On Apr 4, 2005 11:49 AM, Tomas Jogin
<tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> One more thing: when in doubt, get more RAM; Mac Os X actually _uses_
>> the RAM you put in the computer, so more RAM always makes the system
>> faster (unlike on Windows where you notice less and less difference
>> over 500MB or so). 
> This is an argument pro Windows, right? ;)
Heh, I thought so too on first reading, but the emphasis is that OS X
will take advantage of extra RAM, whereas Windows doesn''t seem to.
The author was making no comment about whether either platform
inherently _needs_ to use more RAM.

So all else being equal, it''s an argument pro OS X, contra Windows.

Cheers,
Gavin (commenting on the semantics, not the validity, of the argument)

On 2005.04.04., at 7:26, Phillip Hutchings wrote:
> OS X 10.3 Server has an option for case-sensitive HFS+, but the client
> version doesn''t.
>
No, it does! But you have to reformat the partition with that option.
Gábor

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gavin Sinclair wrote:
| On Tuesday, April 5, 2005, 9:42:14 AM, Michael wrote:
|
|>On Apr 4, 2005 11:49 AM, Tomas Jogin
<tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
|>
|>>One more thing: when in doubt, get more RAM; Mac Os X actually _uses_
|>>the RAM you put in the computer, so more RAM always makes the system
|>>faster (unlike on Windows where you notice less and less difference
|>>over 500MB or so).
|
|>This is an argument pro Windows, right? ;)
|
| Heh, I thought so too on first reading, but the emphasis is that OS X
| will take advantage of extra RAM, whereas Windows doesn''t seem to.
| The author was making no comment about whether either platform
| inherently _needs_ to use more RAM.
|
| So all else being equal, it''s an argument pro OS X, contra Windows.
That is correct.

The reason is that Windows handles caching a little worse than most
other OSs.  In Linux (and I would speculate that MacBSD^WOS X, is the
same) chunks of the filesystem, for example, get cached in RAM and
written to disk later.  The more RAM you have, the more stuff you can
cache in RAM, to avoid touching the disk.  The more you can avoid
touching the disk, the less time processes spend waiting for reads from
and writes to files to finish, and the faster the processes can work.

So, yes, more RAM is always useful, but not needed too badly.

(By the way, Linux, Solaris, and I would imagine *BSD (although I''m
still a BSD n00b) are actually a bit more agressive than that; to get
more RAM to use as cache, it will swap out processes that have been
asleep for a while. That''s why, when you come back to your desk,
Mozilla
takes some time to ''warm up''.)
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCUspMv24lB609Ih8RAkw7AKCtSJdbAAklsFojzPwBuGMg3fRucwCgnQFa
FDwvExkK7nkGIEvNh04W7Ps=mHTn
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Not to nitpick, but you''re confusing read-caching and write-caching. 
Write buffering is a performance feature, but it''s not at all what you
describe below -- in general, things are WRITTEN as soon as possible
in order to maintain data integrity.

You''re talking about read caching.  In both later versions (either 2.2
or 2.4+) of Linux and BSD boxes memory managment between the
filesystem read buffers and the overall system is unified.  Swapping
process-space memory to disk is analgous to writing an inmemory file
to disk -- such as when you mmap a file into your address space, for
example, and it "unswaps the pages from the disk which haven''t
been
read."

Both will swap out LRU memory segmenents even if the "process" is
active.  This lets you make the best use of your memory for the
filesystem, but programs with use garbage collection get hurt with
this because the GC generally scans through all of it''s
process'' space
to determine if the object is referenced, so an old object get''s
unmarshalled from the disk just so it can be discarded.  Oh well.

-w

On Apr 5, 2005 1:26 PM, Pete Elmore
<pete-/FoxAHcm13IqDJ6do+/SaQ@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Gavin Sinclair wrote:
> | On Tuesday, April 5, 2005, 9:42:14 AM, Michael wrote:
> |
> |>On Apr 4, 2005 11:49 AM, Tomas Jogin
<tomasj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> |>
> |>>One more thing: when in doubt, get more RAM; Mac Os X actually
_uses_
> |>>the RAM you put in the computer, so more RAM always makes the
system
> |>>faster (unlike on Windows where you notice less and less
difference
> |>>over 500MB or so).
> |
> |>This is an argument pro Windows, right? ;)
> |
> | Heh, I thought so too on first reading, but the emphasis is that OS X
> | will take advantage of extra RAM, whereas Windows doesn''t seem
to.
> | The author was making no comment about whether either platform
> | inherently _needs_ to use more RAM.
> |
> | So all else being equal, it''s an argument pro OS X, contra
Windows.
> That is correct.
> 
> The reason is that Windows handles caching a little worse than most
> other OSs.  In Linux (and I would speculate that MacBSD^WOS X, is the
> same) chunks of the filesystem, for example, get cached in RAM and
> written to disk later.  The more RAM you have, the more stuff you can
> cache in RAM, to avoid touching the disk.  The more you can avoid
> touching the disk, the less time processes spend waiting for reads from
> and writes to files to finish, and the faster the processes can work.
> 
> So, yes, more RAM is always useful, but not needed too badly.
> 
> (By the way, Linux, Solaris, and I would imagine *BSD (although
I''m
> still a BSD n00b) are actually a bit more agressive than that; to get
> more RAM to use as cache, it will swap out processes that have been
> asleep for a while. That''s why, when you come back to your desk,
Mozilla
> takes some time to ''warm up''.)
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFCUspMv24lB609Ih8RAkw7AKCtSJdbAAklsFojzPwBuGMg3fRucwCgnQFa
> FDwvExkK7nkGIEvNh04W7Ps> =mHTn
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> 

-- 
Will Schenk
http://www.sublimeguile.com
http://www.myelinate.com

It will, but through the altivec coprocessor not gpu.

I''ve just got mini for my girlfriend, and it''s sweeet.

Bye.
--
Ing. Josef Pospisil
On 4.4.2005, at 17:44, Ben Myles wrote:
> The graphics card in the iMac is also much better, and will support
> CoreGraphics in Tiger when it is released (afaik the Mini''s gfx
card
> won''t).

> I''ve just got mini for my girlfriend, and it''s sweeet.
Must...avoid...inserting...bad joke here. :-0