ogg dev - Aug 2011 - ask for one ogg test stream with cmml subtitle

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:01:11 +1000
Silvia Pfeiffer <silvia at silvia-pfeiffer.de> wrote:
> Hi BCXA,
> 
> CMML is deprecated. You should use KATE instead.
> 
> Cheers,
> Silvia.
ok i admit this statement came as a surprise for me.

cmml is about metadate/annotations, how can it be replaced
by KATE ( which is mainly about subtitles as far as i can see?

startx

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:33 PM, startx <startx at plentyfact.org>
wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:01:11 +1000
> Silvia Pfeiffer <silvia at silvia-pfeiffer.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi BCXA,
>>
>> CMML is deprecated. You should use KATE instead.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Silvia.
>
> ok i admit this statement came as a surprise for me.
>
> cmml is about metadate/annotations, how can it be replaced
> by KATE ( which is mainly about subtitles as far as i can see?
Yeah, I think we have to reposition Kate a bit better. In my mind,
Kate is a generic way to align any type of text-based content with an
Ogg timeline. Subtitles and Karaoke are one type of such content. But
any other text content can be time-aligned in the exact same way with
the same codebase. Metadata is just one type of such text content. The
Kate libraries already allow for time-aligning SRT and the
Kate-format. These are just means of providing time-aligned text. Oggk
has recently also made it explicitly possible to attach arbitrary
tag/value metadata to timed events. So Kate is a lot more than just
subtitles.

I'm expecting that the next format that we will encode in a Kate track
is WebVTT. It can't be hard to do because Kate already supports all
the required functionality. There just isn't yet a WebVTT parser that
would chop it up for libkate to feed into Ogg. :-)

Cheers,
Silvia.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 18:08:59 +1000
Silvia Pfeiffer <silvia at silvia-pfeiffer.de> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:33 PM, startx <startx at plentyfact.org>
wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:01:11 +1000
> > Silvia Pfeiffer <silvia at silvia-pfeiffer.de> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi BCXA,
> >>
> >> CMML is deprecated. You should use KATE instead.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Silvia.
> >
> > ok i admit this statement came as a surprise for me.
> >
> > cmml is about metadate/annotations, how can it be replaced
> > by KATE ( which is mainly about subtitles as far as i can see?
> 
> Yeah, I think we have to reposition Kate a bit better. In my mind,
> Kate is a generic way to align any type of text-based content with an
> Ogg timeline.
ok. but just to clarify, did you mean you consider CMML as deprecated
for ogg, or in general deprecated as a markup language. i recently
started to use CMML as attachements in matroska containers ( because
the markup had a stable definition and matroska tag xml seems to get
nowhere , plus doesnt do timeline descriptions properly )

using CMML to describe a video timetime is currently the best thing i
found outthere, very easy to parse and verify.

startx

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:03 PM, startx <startx at plentyfact.org>
wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 18:08:59 +1000
> Silvia Pfeiffer <silvia at silvia-pfeiffer.de> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 5:33 PM, startx <startx at
plentyfact.org> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:01:11 +1000
>> > Silvia Pfeiffer <silvia at silvia-pfeiffer.de> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi BCXA,
>> >>
>> >> CMML is deprecated. You should use KATE instead.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Silvia.
>> >
>> > ok i admit this statement came as a surprise for me.
>> >
>> > cmml is about metadate/annotations, how can it be replaced
>> > by KATE ( which is mainly about subtitles as far as i can see?
>>
>> Yeah, I think we have to reposition Kate a bit better. In my mind,
>> Kate is a generic way to align any type of text-based content with an
>> Ogg timeline.
>
> ok. but just to clarify, did you mean you consider CMML as deprecated
> for ogg, or in general deprecated as a markup language. i recently
> started to use CMML as attachements in matroska containers ( because
> the markup had a stable definition and matroska tag xml seems to get
> nowhere , plus doesnt do timeline descriptions properly )
>
> using CMML to describe a video timetime is currently the best thing i
> found outthere, very easy to parse and verify.
Well, we developed CMML 10 years ago and it hasn't really been used
widely. If it works for you for your use case, then feel free to use
it. It's not going away. I've just basically deprecated it from new
support and I suggest going with Kate for Ogg. For the Web, I would
suggest WebVTT, which I expect eventually will go into Ogg through
Kate, and into Matroska through WebM. Just my 2c here though. If CMML
works for you now, go for it!

Cheers,
Silvia.