ogg dev - Aug 2008 - [Vorbis-dev] MT9 Capabilities

Sorry, but i wasn't sure the best place to post this. I was looking for some
forums but it doesn't look like Xiph has any official ones. Anyways, i heard
about this MT9 think a while ago and i thought it would be awesome if FLAC,
Vorbis, and all could implement something like this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/may/27/news.seanmichaels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT9

In combination with that, it would also be cool to have some sort of
subtitles-esque thing for audio which would be useful for speeches and
karaoke.

These two things would be a very very big boost for free audio formats :)

How feasible is this in the long run?
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> Sorry, but i wasn't sure the best place to post this. I was looking for
some
> forums but it doesn't look like Xiph has any official ones. Anyways, i
heard
This sounds like an Ogg thing rather than a codec specific thing, so
I've trimmed
all but ogg-dev.
> about this MT9 think a while ago and i thought it would be awesome if FLAC,
> Vorbis, and all could implement something like this.
This looks like going back to Amiga modules, woohoo :)

In any case, if it's merely supplying several tracks and leaving the
mixing to the
user/player, then nothing's needed for Vorbis (or FLAC, or others). Ogg
allows
several tracks to be concurently multiplexed, so players can mix them. A player
might then decide to let the user tweak volumes of each track, but
that's outside
the purview of Ogg. Something that could be added, however, to make it easier
on the player to *know* such tracks are supposed to be handled that way, are
standardized message headers to Skeleton to indicate such tracks.
> In combination with that, it would also be cool to have some sort of
> subtitles-esque thing for audio which would be useful for speeches and
> karaoke.
There is, though fancy karaoke type overlay is still work in progress:
http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/OggKate

>
> > about this MT9 think a while ago and i thought it would be awesome if
> FLAC,
> > Vorbis, and all could implement something like this.
>
> This looks like going back to Amiga modules, woohoo :)
>
> In any case, if it's merely supplying several tracks and leaving the
> mixing to the
> user/player, then nothing's needed for Vorbis (or FLAC, or others). Ogg
> allows
> several tracks to be concurently multiplexed, so players can mix them. A
> player
> might then decide to let the user tweak volumes of each track, but
> that's outside
> the purview of Ogg. Something that could be added, however, to make it
> easier
> on the player to *know* such tracks are supposed to be handled that way,
> are
> standardized message headers to Skeleton to indicate such tracks.

Is this how MT9 does it? I considered this but thought there might be a
better way since wouldn't this take up a lot more space?
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On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 6:36 AM, Danny Piccirillo
<danny.piccirillo at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Sorry, but i wasn't sure the best place to post this. I was looking for
some
> forums but it doesn't look like Xiph has any official ones. Anyways, i
heard
> about this MT9 think a while ago and i thought it would be awesome if FLAC,
> Vorbis, and all could implement something like this.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/may/27/news.seanmichaels
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT9
>
> In combination with that, it would also be cool to have some sort of
> subtitles-esque thing for audio which would be useful for speeches and
> karaoke.
>
> These two things would be a very very big boost for free audio formats :)
>
> How feasible is this in the long run?
Vorbis supports 255 channels in a single stream, FLAC 8. Ogg would let
you encapsulate many streams in one file, even combining Vorbis, FLAC,
and Speex.  The open questions are application support and metadata
for signaling the right default settings.

I doubt if the artists and music labels are interested in distributing a 
half-finished product like Guardian describes. If I buy a Picasso, I 
wouldn't expect it to be delivered as a blank sheet of paper and crayons 
either, although it would enable me to avoid the bizarre cubism features 
of his paintings and to mix together something _I_ like better. 
Technically, most audio formats would support this as multichannel 
streams, but I suppose most mainstream audio players won't offer a 
reasonable user interface for these features. Reading on mt9hits.com 
that FLAC and Ogg Vorbis should "watch out" because "New MT9
Digital
Audio Format Has Six Channels", a lot of buzzwords and almost no 
technical details, I really wonder what they are trying to achieve.

Tor


Danny Piccirillo schrieb:
> Sorry, but i wasn't sure the best place to post this. I was looking for
some
> forums but it doesn't look like Xiph has any official ones. Anyways, i
heard
> about this MT9 think a while ago and i thought it would be awesome if FLAC,
> Vorbis, and all could implement something like this.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/may/27/news.seanmichaels
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT9
>
> In combination with that, it would also be cool to have some sort of
> subtitles-esque thing for audio which would be useful for speeches and
> karaoke.
>
> These two things would be a very very big boost for free audio formats :)
>
> How feasible is this in the long run?
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vorbis mailing list
> Vorbis at xiph.org
> http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/vorbis
>

i'll chime in and say that i would love to get music recorded in
separate tracks, maybe there would be some kind of settings embedded
in the files so i could hear them as the artist intended the "CD
release", but also have the ability to make my own mix and do just as
Danny said.

Andy
andycool22 at gmail dot com