llvm dev - Dec 2018 - Where's the optimiser gone? (part 5.a): missed tail calls, and more...

"Tim Northover" <t.p.northover at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 17:37, Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>> Compile the following functions with "-O3 -target amd64"
> 
> You've been advised before, but you really need to start reporting
> these as bugs[*] if you actually care about them.
These ain't my bugs, these are LLVM's bugs.
I don't use LLVM, I just dared to write some posts which pinpoint
deficiencies and bugs in it. You should see this as COURTESY.
The least I expect from any software developer, and especially a
"foundation", is to take action on bug reports, INDEPENDENT how they
are reported.
> llvm-dev is
> basically a black-hole as far as bugs go: if no-one takes enough of an
> interest to either fix or file a bug within a day or two, the issue
> will be completely forgotten. The list is intended for discussion of
> issues and future designs, not reporting them.
That's clearly LLVM's problem.
> It seems you got lucky and someone did file at least one report from
> one of these threads;
You got that backwards: YOU are lucky that I took the time to report
these bugs!
> you should expect that to become less frequent.
> People are willing to assume the best of new contributors, but by the
> time you reach a dozen threads without actually engaging with the
> community's procedures that goodwill starts to look a bit threadbare.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Tim.
> 
> [*] https://llvm.org/docs/Contributing.html
| If you are working with LLVM and run into a bug, we definitely want
| to know about it.

I DONT WORK WITH LLVM.
I was just curious whether it shows bugs and deficiencies I saw in
two other C compilers, and documented them.
You and your users suffer from these bugs and deficiencies, not me.

regards
Stefan

Hi Stefan,
> On Dec 3, 2018, at 06:10, Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> 
> "Tim Northover" <t.p.northover at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 17:37, Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev
>> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>>> Compile the following functions with "-O3 -target amd64"
>> 
>> You've been advised before, but you really need to start reporting
>> these as bugs[*] if you actually care about them.
> 
> These ain't my bugs, these are LLVM's bugs.
FWIW, I think you're misunderstanding Tim's intent there. He's not
saying they're your bugs, he's just saying they need to be reported in
the correct place.
> I don't use LLVM, I just dared to write some posts which pinpoint
> deficiencies and bugs in it. You should see this as COURTESY.
> The least I expect from any software developer, and especially a
> "foundation", is to take action on bug reports, INDEPENDENT how
they
> are reported.
> 
>> llvm-dev is
>> basically a black-hole as far as bugs go: if no-one takes enough of an
>> interest to either fix or file a bug within a day or two, the issue
>> will be completely forgotten. The list is intended for discussion of
>> issues and future designs, not reporting them.
> 
> That's clearly LLVM's problem.
> 
>> It seems you got lucky and someone did file at least one report from
>> one of these threads;
> 
> You got that backwards: YOU are lucky that I took the time to report
> these bugs!
> 
>> you should expect that to become less frequent.
>> People are willing to assume the best of new contributors, but by the
>> time you reach a dozen threads without actually engaging with the
>> community's procedures that goodwill starts to look a bit
threadbare.
>> 
>> Cheers.
>> 
>> Tim.
>> 
>> [*] https://llvm.org/docs/Contributing.html
> 
> | If you are working with LLVM and run into a bug, we definitely want
> | to know about it.
The sentence following that one provides instructions on how to report bugs:
	Please let us know and follow the instructions in How to submit an LLVM bug
report <https://llvm.org/docs/HowToSubmitABug.html> to create a bug
report.

Those instructions say:
	Once you have a reduced test-case, go to the LLVM Bug Tracking System
<https://bugs.llvm.org/enter_bug.cgi> and fill out the form with the
necessary details (note that you don’t need to pick a category, just use the
“new-bugs” category if you’re not sure).
You already seem to have reduced test cases (Thanks) so they just need to be
reported to the bug tracker.

Unfortunately, it's a bit harder to create an account with the bug tracker
than it ought to be as there's been trouble with spam. bugs-admin at
lists.llvm.org can set you up with an account.
> I DONT WORK WITH LLVM.
> I was just curious whether it shows bugs and deficiencies I saw in
> two other C compilers, and documented them.
> You and your users suffer from these bugs and deficiencies, not me.
> 
> regards
> Stefan
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
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> On Dec 4, 2018, at 15:11, Stefan Kanthak <stefan.kanthak at nexgo.de>
wrote:
> 
> "Daniel Sanders" <daniel_l_sanders at apple.com
<mailto:daniel_l_sanders at apple.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Stefan,
>> 
>>> On Dec 3, 2018, at 06:10, Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev <llvm-dev
at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> "Tim Northover" <t.p.northover at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 17:37, Stefan Kanthak via llvm-dev
>>>> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>>>>> Compile the following functions with "-O3 -target
amd64"
>>>> 
>>>> You've been advised before, but you really need to start
reporting
>>>> these as bugs[*] if you actually care about them.
>>> 
>>> These ain't my bugs, these are LLVM's bugs.
>> 
>> FWIW, I think you're misunderstanding Tim's intent there.
> 
> No, I understand his intent. I just doesn't align with my intent,
> including the hoops he/LLVM wants me to jump through.
> 
>> He's not saying they're your bugs, he's just saying they
need
>> to be reported in the correct place.
> 
> Go ahead, report them there!
I'm afraid I don't have the time to do that. I have my own work to
attend to.
> [...]
> 
>>>> [*] https://llvm.org/docs/Contributing.html
<https://llvm.org/docs/Contributing.html>
>>> 
>>> | If you are working with LLVM and run into a bug, we definitely
want
>>> | to know about it.
>> 
>> The sentence following that one provides instructions on how
>> to report bugs:
> 
> What follows does CLEARLY not apply here and for me: I don't work
> with LLVM, I don't use it!
It applies to everyone who wishes to report bugs.
> [...]
> 
>> You already seem to have reduced test cases (Thanks) so they just
>> need to be reported to the bug tracker.
> 
> Go ahead, report them there!
> 
> regards
> Stefan
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On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 3:58 PM Daniel Sanders via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> On Dec 4, 2018, at 15:11, Stefan Kanthak <stefan.kanthak at nexgo.de>
wrote:
> No, I understand his intent. I just doesn't align with my intent,
> including the hoops he/LLVM wants me to jump through.
>
> He's not saying they're your bugs, he's just saying they need
> to be reported in the correct place.
>
>
> Go ahead, report them there!
>
>
> I'm afraid I don't have the time to do that. I have my own work to
attend
> to.
>
How uncharitable of you. Mr Kanthak's time is more valuable than anyone
else's.
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>
> These ain't my bugs, these are LLVM's bugs.
> I don't use LLVM, I just dared to write some posts which pinpoint
> deficiencies and bugs in it. You should see this as COURTESY.
> The least I expect from any software developer, and especially a
> "foundation", is to take action on bug reports, INDEPENDENT how
they
> are reported.

I happen to agree with you here, but please understand that it goes both
ways.  The least I expect from any software developer is to communicate in
a professional manner.  Once that starts happening, you may start seeing
some action taken on these bugs (such as me filing all these bug reports
for yoy)
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