llvm dev - Jul 2016 - Suggestion to Stop Cross Posting Discussions

On 9 Jul 2016, at 03:55, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> 
> I think having yet another mailing list is a dramatically worse solution
than simply fixing our mailing list system to allow subscribers to any of the
lists post to all of the lists.
I believe that allowing cross-posting would only solve half of the problem.  We
have two issues:

- Some discussions don’t have a single well-defined home.

- Some members of the wider community don’t subscribe to any of the lists
because they’re too high-traffic and so miss out on things that are relevant to
them

Alex’s LLVM Weekly is currently the closest thing that we have to a solution to
the latter one, but it’s unidirectional.  It’s good as a ‘heads up, this is
happening in LLVM land’, but it doesn’t give people a good way to say ‘actually,
as a downstream consumer this will hurt us a lot, is there an alternative?’

David


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On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 11:10 AM, David Chisnall via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> Alex’s LLVM Weekly is currently the closest thing that we have to a
> solution to the latter one, but it’s unidirectional.  It’s good as a ‘heads
> up, this is happening in LLVM land’, but it doesn’t give people a good way
> to say ‘actually, as a downstream consumer this will hurt us a lot, is
> there an alternative?’
>
Why? Each item already includes links to the archive of the relevant
mailing list discussion. Anyone interested can read the discussion and send
mail to either a particular participant, or join the appropriate list (or
start reading whatever mailbox they already send it to, unread).
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> On Jul 11, 2016, at 1:10 AM, David Chisnall <David.Chisnall at
cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> On 9 Jul 2016, at 03:55, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I think having yet another mailing list is a dramatically worse
solution than simply fixing our mailing list system to allow subscribers to any
of the lists post to all of the lists.
> 
> I believe that allowing cross-posting would only solve half of the problem.
We have two issues:
> 
> - Some discussions don’t have a single well-defined home.
> 
> - Some members of the wider community don’t subscribe to any of the lists
because they’re too high-traffic and so miss out on things that are relevant to
them
I think the third issue is the largest, which is that the current situation is a
huge pain for mailing list moderators.  I did this for years and know the pain
very well.

-Chris

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 4:33 PM Chris Lattner <clattner at apple.com>
wrote:
>
> > On Jul 11, 2016, at 1:10 AM, David Chisnall <David.Chisnall at
cl.cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 9 Jul 2016, at 03:55, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think having yet another mailing list is a dramatically worse
> solution than simply fixing our mailing list system to allow subscribers to
> any of the lists post to all of the lists.
> >
> > I believe that allowing cross-posting would only solve half of the
> problem.  We have two issues:
> >
> > - Some discussions don’t have a single well-defined home.
> >
> > - Some members of the wider community don’t subscribe to any of the
> lists because they’re too high-traffic and so miss out on things that are
> relevant to them
>
> I think the third issue is the largest, which is that the current
> situation is a huge pain for mailing list moderators.  I did this for years
> and know the pain very well.
>
Yep.

I've done some research and for this specific problem, and recent versions
of Mailman directly support this. See the "@LISTNAME" syntax mentioned
here:
https://answers.stanford.edu/solution/how-do-i-configure-my-list-accept-non-members-postings

Or look at the help text provided in the admin interface for the
"accept_these_nonmembers" field which mentions the @ syntax.

So I think we can solve at least these problems with technology, and then
we should re-evaluate whether the remainder warrant being solved.
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