llvm dev - May 2016 - Resuming the discussion of establishing an LLVM code of conduct

> On May 5, 2016, at 6:53 PM, Sean Silva via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Justin Bogner via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote:
> Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
<mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> writes:
> > I want to be super clear, the foundation is not insisting on anything,
nor
> > can it.
> >
> > **I** am making this proposal as an active and long time contributor
to
> > LLVM. Many other members of the community have also expressed support
for
> > this on this and previous threads. But our support is given as
individual
> > members of the community and it should be valued as such.
> 
> Just to add a little bit to this, it's very much a mischaracterization
> of the situation to imply that the code of conduct idea is some sort of
> demand coming from the foundation.
> 
> I can see how one would interpret Chris' statement:
> 
> """
> Renato, I’m confused about your approach here.  At this point, you seem
persistently interested in discussing whether having a code of conduct is the
right thing or not.  This is missing the point: we’re committed to it, and want
to make sure that we get reasonable processes and policies in place.
> 
> If we find out that they are problematic in practice, we can and will
course correct.
> """
> 
> as "some sort of demand coming from the foundation". In context,
my reading of "we're committed to it" is precisely "demand
coming from the foundation".
> 
> Maybe a clarification is needed?
Here’s your clarification:  we == Chandler & I.

-Chris

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I think there's a big difference.

s/dictator/benevolent dictator

Why would wanting you to step up to be a benevolent dictator be
concerning? "the community" isn't going to be a democracy and will
settle for being a republic, but how that's even done isn't even
decided yet.. Right now the whole thing is more like a "tribe"..  if
you look at other projects which have a benevolent dictator, some are
successful and responsibility just lies more on one person than
others. Which frankly, most people should trust *you* to do the right
thing, I would..

Has anyone expressed a concern with nominating you as the benevolent dictator?
------------
Aargh.. I really feel like we're all discussing the proper way do EH
and which doc format to use to describe it...

> On May 5, 2016, at 9:54 PM, C Bergström <cbergstrom at pathscale.com>
wrote:
> 
> I think there's a big difference.
> 
> s/dictator/benevolent dictator
> 
> Why would wanting you to step up to be a benevolent dictator be
> concerning? "the community" isn't going to be a democracy and
will
> settle for being a republic, but how that's even done isn't even
> decided yet.. Right now the whole thing is more like a "tribe".. 
if
> you look at other projects which have a benevolent dictator, some are
> successful and responsibility just lies more on one person than
> others. Which frankly, most people should trust *you* to do the right
> thing, I would..
IMO, the best leaders rarely wield the power they have.  If the community always
has conflicts that need to be resolved by a BD, then that is a pretty clear
demonstration of the *unhealthiness* of the community.  It is much better for
the community to be able to work through issues on its own, and call on a BD
only in extreme circumstances.  I find Renato’s claims that I’m “uninvolved” in
the community to be a really good sign, because that is the *perception* that
I’m seeking, even if it has little to do with reality.

This is precisely why the CoC discussion was started as a discussion, not as a
dictate.  I fully believe that the LLVM community is capable of working this
out, and will be stronger for having done so.  Of course not everyone will be
happy, but that really isn’t the goal.  The most telling sign of support on this
topic is that this thread is populated with the extremely strong opinions of a
very small number of people - the hundreds of other people in the community are
already on board with the concept.

-Chris