llvm dev - May 2016 - Resuming the discussion of establishing an LLVM code of conduct

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 7:41 AM Hal Finkel via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Renato Golin via llvm-dev" <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org>
> > To: "C Bergström" <cbergstrom at pathscale.com>
> > Cc: "llvm-dev" <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2016 7:44:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] Resuming the discussion of establishing an
LLVM
> code of conduct
> >
> > On 5 May 2016 at 13:23, C Bergström <cbergstrom at
pathscale.com> wrote:
> > > Is the list PG, PG-13, R or at what level do "we"
adults all
> > > consider
> > > "ok". Even on broadcast tv (in the US) you'll hear
some profanity.
> > > (context)
> > >
>
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/obscene-indecent-and-profane-broadcasts
> >
> > Excellent context!
> >
> >
> > > Some people have pointed out that they don't like the R-rated
style
> > > of
> > > the LKML. Profanity and no holds barred just isn't for some
people.
> > > I
> > > can respect that, but personally I find it more funny and
> > > raw/honest.
> >
> > I don't care much about the swearing like "s***, I broke the
bots
> > again", but I understand not everyone is like that, so I avoid to
the
> > best of my abilities.
> >
> > I can easily cope with "this code is a piece of s***",
because
> > sometimes it really is. Some people take it personal, though, so
it's
> > best if we all always avoid that kind of talk.
> >
> > But there's nothing dubious about: "you are a piece of s***
for
> > writing this code". That is totally unacceptable.
>
> I'd strongly prefer that we have a "no public profanity"
policy here.

I don't think we need an explicit policy here personally. The nice thing is
that if this kind of behavior bothers people, they can ask for it to stop
and cite the code of conduct for why.

I will (somewhat abashedly) admit I have a rather foul mouth. It bothers
some of my co-workers, and I work assiduously to respect that and change my
language when around them. As you point out, it really isn't required to
use profanity and I don't find this in any ways stifles me expressing
sometimes strong and fervent opinions. ;] That said, I have other
co-workers who don't care at all, and when around them I sometimes use
colorful language. The moment it bothers them, I stop.

So for me, the policy is that the moment it bothers someone, I stop. And
IMO, that's what the code of conduct provides. I know there are folks on
the mailing list who would prefer no profanity, and so I work hard to not
use it there.

Fortunately, I have 100% confidence in every single member of the LLVM
community being able to express themselves effectively without the use of
profanity. I've seen all of you do it on numerous occasions.

-Chandler
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On 5 May 2016 at 19:42, Chandler Carruth <chandlerc at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't think we need an explicit policy here personally. The nice
thing is
> that if this kind of behavior bothers people, they can ask for it to stop
> and cite the code of conduct for why.
Indeed! The "stop policy" in the code is good for that kind of thing.

> I will (somewhat abashedly) admit I have a rather foul mouth. It bothers
> some of my co-workers, and I work assiduously to respect that and change my
> language when around them.
Heh. Whenever I write "stuff" in an email, I have certainly thought of
the other S word first. :)

--renato

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 2:49 AM, Renato Golin via llvm-dev
<llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> On 5 May 2016 at 19:42, Chandler Carruth <chandlerc at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I don't think we need an explicit policy here personally. The nice
thing is
>> that if this kind of behavior bothers people, they can ask for it to
stop
>> and cite the code of conduct for why.
>
> Indeed! The "stop policy" in the code is good for that kind of
thing.
>
>
>> I will (somewhat abashedly) admit I have a rather foul mouth. It
bothers
>> some of my co-workers, and I work assiduously to respect that and
change my
>> language when around them.
>
> Heh. Whenever I write "stuff" in an email, I have certainly
thought of
> the other S word first. :)
If this policy passes, which seems to be the direction things are
going.. (I'm half joking here) - Would the admin pretty please make a
list.. llvm-hottube or something appropriately named where profanity
is generally acceptable.

(This is idea is of course flawed from the start - since any
interesting discussion would get cross posted and likely violate the
more strict rules of the main lists.. ;(

Is there a place, besides irc and silent reflection, for less serious
discussions or whacko brainstorming, around llvm/compilers?
(comp.compilers is moderated - crazy stuff would never fly there)